SHTF Scenario questions

[M.E.Eldridge]

I've noticed on alot of other boards(and this for all I know) that alot of the folks who prepare for an SHTF scenario keep food gathering via hunting and important consideration for their survival plan. Thats all well and good, but a quite a few of those who include this aspect in their survival plan live in big cities where good animal habitat is at least a few hours away, so it lead me to form some questions(I own land in the country with plenty to tasty critters so this is more or less a curiosity to me)

1. How do these folks plan on getting to a good hunting location? Remember, even in times of crisis private property is still private property.

2. Many of those who live in the big cities that I have talked to have never hunted before and assume its an easy enough source of food to survive on that one can bank their lives on it with no prior training/experience. My years in the woods have taught me many things, and at the top of that list is the fact that hunting requires a degree of skill,knowledge and experience with the outdoors that the average metropolitan type doesn't understand.

3.Game laws in an area far enough away from a disaster zone to be safe to relocate and hunt are probably still intact, so buying a high-powered deer gun in a state where they a forbidden from hunting makes no sense.

So what are your thoughts on the whole hunting as a main survival strategy by those who have no experience with it beyond the typical gun rag article?

 

[KriegHund]

SHTF threads are on a mod-imposed hiatus at the moment, but http://neardeathexperiments.com/smf/index.php is the perfect place for such discussion.

 

[Jeff White]

I'm going to let this one stay open and move it to the hunting forum. I think if it stays on topic it would fit there.

Jeff

 

[itgoesboom]

My view on it is that many people are going to starve to death. Simple as that.

I am currently a new hunter, and I am putting hunting into my crisis plans, but only in certain situations, and probably mostly for small game like squirrels that I can get in my little town.

Learning to hunt was partially just something I have wanted to do, as well as knowing how to do it in case I ever need to do it. Plus now it just seems fun.

My main food supply is what I have stored, and that is considerable. If I get through all that food, well, then we are talking about an extended situation that most people wouldn't survive. And there are plenty of public forests around where I live, in addition to the animals that live in the fields around our property.

I.G.B.

 

[Gun_nut]

well if SHTF happens id say if you eavuated carry 3 M.R.E's for 3 days food just too get by and hunt....but there are alot of SHTF scenarios out there...like the movie red dawn...but alot seem very not likly to happen

 

[MCgunner]

I don't lose sleep over such stuff. I live within 200 yards of Lavaca bay, lots of fish out there. I can get to hunting ground fairly easily. It's only about 4 miles by boat from the boat ramp down the street. My hunting property is only 30 miles away. However, if it REALLY hit the fan, why would I hunt DEER or something? I'd just wait for one of farmer browns calves to walk up the fence. I mean, if it's REALLY survival, you think I'm going to waste energy hunting DEER? I'm a good deer hunter, but cows are easy to kill. All it takes is a good .22 and a head shot.

Meanwhile, I can eat off the bay. "Hard heads" are a type of catfish Arias felis I believe it's spelled, is the species. They're good to eat, yet most fishermen consider 'em trash fish. But, with about any bait you can catch a tub full of little ones any given summer and they get big. Sharks are in the bay in big numbers mid summer. Sea Trout (Cynosion nebulosus) or spotted weakfish is plentiful in winter right out my front door. I have plenty of tackle, don't even have to drive. I've got dandelion greens in my yard and prickly pear (nopalitos) all over the place. I won't starve if HEB stops selling food for some reason. Then there's the crabs, shrimp, oysters. There's reefs all over this part of the bay. If the S hits TF, why would I worry about game laws or seasons?

Mmmm, I need to go fishing...

 

[R.W.Dale]

I don't lose sleep over such stuff. I live within 200 yards of Lavaca bay, lots of fish out there. I can get to hunting ground fairly easily. It's only about 4 miles by boat from the boat ramp down the street. My hunting property is only 30 miles away. However, if it REALLY hit the fan, why would I hunt DEER or something? I'd just wait for one of farmer browns calves to walk up the fence. I mean, if it's REALLY survival, you think I'm going to waste energy hunting DEER? I'm a good deer hunter, but cows are easy to kill. All it takes is a good .22 and a head shot.

Wow that's really nice to know! that you'ed be willing to use a gun to steal someone elses food (cows)

 

[azredhawk44]

I have hunting and traveling as my solution, and I am a city slicker. Anyone in phoenix is probably dead if civil engineering fails to where we can't get water or food into the city.

My goal is not to inconvenience anyone, but to make for high country over a period of about 2-3 weeks. I may pot a javelina or whitetail on my way here or there, or maybe nothing but bunnies, but I will be walking from water tank to water tank until I get somewhere rural enough that I am not bothering anyone.

Hopefully no one shoots me for poaching on their land, but I have no control over that. The only thing I have control over is that I will almost certainly die if I stay in Phoenix, but if I get out of town and to somewhere I can be left in peace until anarchy dies back down, I should be okay.

Unfortunately, several hundred thousand people are thinking almost exactly like I am, in Phoenix. I'm hoping that waiting them out for 2-3 days gets all of them out of my way (army checkpoints stopping people, ranchers shooting people, rioters killing people, bandits killing people) to where I can make it out of town undetected.

So please, ranchers/farmers/landowners: Don't shoot me! I promise I'll just pass thru!

 

[mbt2001]

The first 6 months of a SHTF event you can expect not to sleep much. Hunting, should be part of the plan. Even "city" environments have birds, squirells, pigeons et cetera.

The question is really, can you outlast the other folks.

 

[joab]

Luckily I live in central Fla

Water is never a problem, with the proper filters.
Food is plentiful either vegetable or meat.

A .22 is all that is needed for SHTF table fare. If you're not squeamish a good pellet gun will kill enough rats to survive.

My SHTF fears have always been along the lines of a Katrina event.
The real life experiences of others had opened my eyes and changed my plan a little

A short 12 Ga, a packable .22 rifle and a 1911 with multiple mags has moved to the top of my armament list.

Even in the cities here a game rich patch of land is always nearby, and hunting isn't that hard if you don't set your sites too high

 

[MCgunner]

Wow that's really nice to know! that you'ed be willing to use a gun to steal someone elses food (cows)

There's various levels of SHTF I reckon. If it means my wife eats and farmer brown gets a calf stolen, well, guess what.... Heck, I'd have to trespass on his property to kill a deer! In Texas, you can get shot trespassing even if it AIN'T a SHTF scenario. Shoot his calf and you don't have to be on his property so long. You don't risk getting shot so long.

The moral folks, the Christians, would be the first to go in a "Road Warrior" situation. I'm not talking about the great depression here, I'm talking about dog eat dog survival. Cities are FULL of people. In wildlife management, they'd say the carrying capacity is exceeded, buy a huge margin! If the S really HTF, I'd probably have to defend my property with lethal force. There are good folks around that could pull together here, in this town. But, I don't know how many of 'em I'd trust with my food if we were all short.

But, people are communal animals and I expect there'd be groups form for their own mutual gain. Sharing of resources, helping each other. That could happen in this little podunk town where everyone knows everyone, but in Houston???? Heck, they'd all be dead in three months, probably killed by each other's hand, and the baddest of the bunch would be left, Darwin at work.

I mean, if there's still gasoline, still electricity, did the S really HTF????? My major concern would be sleeping in summer without electricity. LOL! Down here, you could dine on the mosquitos. They got about as much meat on 'em as the doves. And August low temps are low 80s and 90% humidity. And, then, there's a matter of fresh water. If there's no water here, I'd have to rig a distillation column for the bay water I reckon. Could get salt with that, too.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

MCGunner,

I think if the SHTF and you kill one of Farmer Brown's cows, he may come and kill you and your wife.

Cattle rustling was a capital offense at one time, and if the SHTF, it will be again.

 

[MCgunner]

MCGunner,

I think if the SHTF and you kill one of Farmer Brown's cows, he may come and kill you and your wife.

Cattle rustling was a capital offense at one time, and if the SHTF, it will be again.

If I didn't get the drop in him first. If it got that bad, I'd just slip in his house and take care of things, first. We're talkin' no laws here, survival of the baddest. Nobody with anything to lose.

But, I don't think it'd ever come to that. I don't know what scenario you guys are considering, but if it's truly survival, he who shoots first and accurate wins. If there's no law, are you gonna trust ANYbody??? If it's just a great depression type thing, that's different. But, if the nukes dropped, there's no civilization left, only people trying to survive, who enforces the rules? The man with the gun does.

 

[MCgunner]

Just another thought, but how long do you think the ranchers around here could protect their stock, property in a REAL SHTF situation? If eveyone in this county were starving, you think they'd care about anyone else? I think there'd be HUGE die offs. This country, this planet is WAY overpopulated. The planet couldn't possibly sustain such populations of Homo sapiens without modern agriculture, specifically American agriculture which is the most productive in the world. If THIS country were plunged into caos, no agricultural production, no fuel, the entire world would go down with us because the entire world depends on our food production. I don't see where anyone wins in this scenario and I don't even know that I'd WANNA survive in that situation. I've lived a good, long life. I'm gonna be gone in 20 or 30 years anyway. Hate to sound defeatist, but this is what it'd come down to for everyone, farmer Brown included, sooner or later. You people seem to thing there'd be such a thing as rules or rule of law if it got really bad. Well, guess again...

 

[joab]

I was wondering why the moretoreum on SHTF threads.
Now I understand

 

[R.W.Dale]

I was wondering why the moretoreum on SHTF threads.
Now I understand

Me to.

 

[BIGR]

COUNTRY BOY CAN SURVIVE

 

[R.W.Dale]

COUNTRY BOY CAN SURVIVE

 

[itgoesboom]

I was wondering why the moretoreum on SHTF threads.
Now I understand

Seriously.

I think we just saw that McGunner has absolutely no morals whatsoever. Kill the farmer, steal his cows, hell, why don't you rape his daughters too?

MCgunner, People like you give people like us a bad name, and honestly, I hope you are one of the first to fall if it does hit the fan. I know I stock extra ammo because of people who think like you.

I.G.B.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Some of y'all are funny. The SHTF and you are worried about game laws versus starving and getting to "good" hunting areas. I think some of you have missed the important aspects when it comes to the notion of 'survival.'

Even in the city, there is a goodly amount of animal biomass available for consumption even if it isn't traditionally what you eat.

I found it odd that someone suggested that the laws may still be in effect away from the disaster area and dealing with conforming to the laws in the unaffected area where the laws are still intact. If the laws are still intact then there is still government of some sort, right? If so, survival hunting may be unnecessary as help is available to you in the forms of food, medicine, and shelter.

Would I count on it? Nope, but it is a resource to tap. Let's face it, if Joe Game Warden is still on the job and and checking to see if you have a hunting or fishing license, then there is somebody in Joe Game Warden's town that can provide you with temporary food and shelter. After all, if Joe Game Warden is handling little things like hunting code enforcement, then you have reached safety.

In New Orleans, it is illegal to hunt nutria with a firearm. Actually, most all hunting in the city with a firearm is illegal. Did you hear of any that were so charged? Were game wardens checking for fishing licenses of those that were fishing? Nope. Why not? Because they have more significant issues with which to contend and those fending for themselves in a reasonable manner were not perceived as being a threat or hazard and this allowed law enforcement folks to contend with those that were in need of help.

 

[MCgunner]

Some of y'all are funny. The SHTF and you are worried about game laws versus starving and getting to "good" hunting areas. I think some of you have missed the important aspects when it comes to the notion of 'survival.'

Even in the city, there is a goodly amount of animal biomass available for consumption even if it isn't traditionally what you eat.

I found it odd that someone suggested that the laws may still be in effect away from the disaster area and dealing with conforming to the laws in the unaffected area where the laws are still intact. If the laws are still intact then there is still government of some sort, right? If so, survival hunting may be unnecessary as help is available to you in the forms of food, medicine, and shelter.

Would I count on it? Nope, but it is a resource to tap. Let's face it, if Joe Game Warden is still on the job and and checking to see if you have a hunting or fishing license, then there is somebody in Joe Game Warden's town that can provide you with temporary food and shelter. After all, if Joe Game Warden is handling little things like hunting code enforcement, then you have reached safety.

In New Orleans, it is illegal to hunt nutria with a firearm. Actually, most all hunting in the city with a firearm is illegal. Did you hear of any that were so charged? Were game wardens checking for fishing licenses of those that were fishing? Nope. Why not? Because they have more significant issues with which to contend and those fending for themselves in a reasonable manner were not perceived as being a threat or hazard and this allowed law enforcement folks to contend with those that were in need of help.

Precisely. If there's law and order and rules, where's the problem? No, I've never rustled cows, killed anyone, committed rape (no need for that, regardless of the situation. I am a moral man, believe it or not) But, in a true survival situation, there are no rules. Think of the movie "Road Warrior" for what I'm trying to say. Are you going to hesitate to kill? Are you going to follow laws that no longer exist? Then, you are dead.

If the problem is temporary, then there's no need to worry! The bay is full of sustenance! I wouldn't steal to survive in that situation, not at all. I would if it were a total collapse society nationally, though, if I had to and I'd kill if someone were to try and stop me. In that case, survival of the fittest. Even in Katrina, you saw a LITTLE of what it might be like. Multiply that by a couple million. If you hesitate, you lose. It's just like war, if you don't kill him, he kills you. Conscientious objectors are losers.

If there are still laws, then there's not a problem. I'll go to HEB and BUY my steaks like I've done for 52 years, or down to McDs for a burger, parish the thought! Think I'd rather eat rats.

If you're all high and mighty about obeying the law when there isn't one, then you ain't gonna survive. That's all I'm sayin'. And, if you hesitate to kill when someone wants to kill you, you ain't gonna survive. I would kill no one that wasn't a threat. I don't know if I'd have to worry about there being anyone on the farms if it got that bad anyway. I wouldn't be the only one looking for easy meat. The cattle population wouldn't last long. And if there's no fence production, there'll soon be no fences. It's back to open range.

I think who ever wrote the "Road Warrior" probably had it about right except for the fighting over gasoline thing. I see the fighting over food, not gasoline. 7 BILLION people on the planet. How is it possible that the planet can sustain that many people with no modern agriculture? It'll be mass famine regardless sooner or later, so save one of those bullets for yourself if it ever got that bad.

Now, then, realistic local scenarios are more pertinent to me since I live on the gulf coast and a Katrina could hit here. What would I do? I have a van, I'd run to the hills and wait till it's gone and come see what's left and file on the insurance. I don't see a survival scenario in that requiring me to live off the land. I mean, if I'd lived in New Orleans, I'd have done the same thing! That's how it's done in a civilized society. What you saw in the news, the looting, the shooting, was the morons that didn't get the heck out! And, New Orleans is rife with gangs and thugs, always has been. I call those people morons because they are. They may be poor, but if you live in a hole 10 feet below sea level by an ocean with major hurricanes always a theat and you don't have an exit strategy? Well, sir, you ARE a MORON! If you think the government, especially in New Orleans, is going to save your butt, you are a moron. If you can afford nothing else, buy a scooter and get out of town. The roads are going to be jammed and you'd probably make better time on a Honda Ruckus anyway!

 

[R.W.Dale]

Some of y'all are funny. The SHTF and you are worried about game laws versus starving and getting to "good" hunting areas. I think some of you have missed the important aspects when it comes to the notion of 'survival.'

Even in the city, there is a goodly amount of animal biomass available for consumption even if it isn't traditionally what you eat.

I found it odd that someone suggested that the laws may still be in effect away from the disaster area and dealing with conforming to the laws in the unaffected area where the laws are still intact. If the laws are still intact then there is still government of some sort, right? If so, survival hunting may be unnecessary as help is available to you in the forms of food, medicine, and shelter.

Would I count on it? Nope, but it is a resource to tap. Let's face it, if Joe Game Warden is still on the job and and checking to see if you have a hunting or fishing license, then there is somebody in Joe Game Warden's town that can provide you with temporary food and shelter. After all, if Joe Game Warden is handling little things like hunting code enforcement, then you have reached safety.

In New Orleans, it is illegal to hunt nutria with a firearm. Actually, most all hunting in the city with a firearm is illegal. Did you hear of any that were so charged? Were game wardens checking for fishing licenses of those that were fishing? Nope. Why not? Because they have more significant issues with which to contend and those fending for themselves in a reasonable manner were not perceived as being a threat or hazard and this allowed law enforcement folks to contend with those that were in need of help.

You seem to think that just because goverment may not be around it would be OK to behave like a barbarian. There is such a thing as basic human decency. I for one would starve before I behaved like some kind of degenerate heathen. Stealing other peoples food or in your case alluding to cannabilisim

 

[Art Eatman]

MCgunners' comments may SEEM extreme. The thing is, some folks may indeed get hungry enough that all conscience goes away. Survival, to such a person, might indeed mean they'd commit murder.

This reminds me of the discussions during the 1960s about sharing one's fallout shelter with neighbors who hadn't made any preparations against a nuclear attack.

Those arguments were never resolved, either...

I wish folks would get over the foolish notion that a landowner in Texas can shoot a trespasser and get away with it with no punishment, no probability of doing hard time. That idea is total BS. If I see a trespasser on my land, and I have, all I can do is request that they leave. If they turn away and head toward the boundary, I'm through. I've done all the law allows.

Going back to Mel Tappan and his writings on Survival, one thing I definitely agree with: If you truly believe that there will be some major SHTF situation, you better already be where you want to go. You better already have all the skills that are needed to survive. You better already have some form of support group in place. You better not be in any sort of precarious position with respect to dentistry, health and medicine, and such "trivia" as eyeglasses.

Don't meet those specifications? You're in deep doo-doo if it comes to pass.

Art

 

[MCgunner]

MCgunners' comments may SEEM extreme. The thing is, some folks may indeed get hungry enough that all conscience goes away. Survival, to such a person, might indeed mean they'd commit murder.

This reminds me of the discussions during the 1960s about sharing one's fallout shelter with neighbors who hadn't made any preparations against a nuclear attack.

Those arguments were never resolved, either...

Going back to Mel Tappan and his writings on Survival, one thing I definitely agree with: If you truly believe that there will be some major SHTF situation, you better already be where you want to go. You better already have all the skills that are needed to survive. You better already have some form of support group in place. You better not be in any sort of precarious position with respect to dentistry, health and medicine, and such "trivia" as eyeglasses.

Don't meet those specifications? You're in deep doo-doo if it comes to pass.

Art

I totally agree. I also don't really believe it'll ever come to the absolute worst case I'm alluding to. I really do believe that all these people and their "BOBs" and SHTFs are full of it.

I wish folks would get over the foolish notion that a landowner in Texas can shoot a trespasser and get away with it with no punishment, no probability of doing hard time. That idea is total BS. If I see a trespasser on my land, and I have, all I can do is request that they leave. If they turn away and head toward the boundary, I'm through. I've done all the law allows.

Competely true. But, then, they don't lynch people for stealing cows anymore either, so was my retort any more stupid than the statement that a rancher would come after my wife? I mean, if he did, I'd kill him. I think I'd be the moral one. He'd be intent on killing me over a calf I needed to feed my family. I'd be intent on killing him to keep him from killing my wife and I. I think I'm on moral high ground on this one.

I guess my point with the trespassing thing is I'm already breaking the law if I'm hunting on his place, so what's killin' a calf? Wooptie do if it means survival. You can't hunt in this part of the state without trespassing. If you've got the cash for a lease, heck, just buy a plane ticket to Russia.

 

[R.W.Dale]