Since when did Kimber quaility go down the tubes?

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Kimbers

Series one ONLY. You won't find many for sale, because they are keepers. Had a ultra carry, and it was accurate. When they started making their own parts they started having problems. I have a friend who got a Pro Carry II and has nothing but trouble with it. I got a SA SS Champ and not one burp. Mine has tritium night sites, his doesn't. He is so jealous. He paid 985.00, I paid 700.00.
 
My friend has at least 2 Kimber 1911's, both of them loaded up with all the goodies. They sure look nice, but they don't seem to be very good at actually shooting. He had an older one that shot great, but he sold it 2 years ago to buy a newer model Kimber, and really regrets doing it.

I don't remember what the models are, but one of them is full sized, and the other is a Commander type. Both of them have had ongoing FTF problems since they were new, and all his other high buck 1911's have had similar issues, but he bought an old LLama 1911 that will shoot anything. It's only got about 50% of the finish left, and it's got a lot of nicks in it, but it outshoots the other 1911's he's got. His heavily worked on Baer 1911 is almost 100% reliable now, after a couple of trips back and a couple of trips to a local gunsmith. $2000+ into a gun that get's outshot by my $360 Witness, his nasty old LLama, and his new $550 CZ 97B. :rolleyes:

These problems are rapidly making him into a nonfanboi of high dollar 1911's..:D

Especially when my witness passed the 1200 round point last week with a total of one FTF, the case wasn't even close to being right, and it got jammed when the slide tried to chamber it. I put three mags through it right after that with no problems. It was cheap S&B so one out of 150 rounds isn't bad, but the gun sure was loaded with "stuff" after it shot it. My friend's two Kimbers both had multiple jams with better ammo. He's got one of the Kimbers sold to his brother in law, who probably won't ever shoot it, and he's ordered one of the Dan Wesson 1911's. We'll see!
 
I'm not sure my sub-1,900.00 Dawson/STI qualifies as a "high end" 1911 but I can't coax a malf out of that beast and it's not for lack of trying. It just flat refuses to mess up.

I have Kimber to thank for driving me to it. So it's not like they've never done anything good for me. I do miss the Kimber's aesthetics, though.
 
The thing about Kimber to remember, is that they are selling so many guns that I personally don't think they care about the problems anymore. I mean, geez, if they would just cut out ONE of their full page adds from any Peterson publication, they would still have 1-2 left and then they could hire some more Quality folks for inspection prior to shipment. Until they feel that their quality issues are causing decreased sales, they won't take the time to address this real and growing problem.
I love my Kimber now - but have nothing good at all to say about the intial product I received and even less good things to say about the 2 failed trips back to their shop to "fix" the problem. I lost patience, sent it to Wilson Combat and finally have a gun that will work. That is sad, but it is what I was forced to do.
The really bad thing, to me, is that Kimber could be making a product that was so good that people wouldn't need to go and buy the high $$ products. However, they just are happy with their profits and won't bat an eye until their is reason to change.
 
Boy am I glad I stumbled across this. I actually sent the link to one of my friends who is considering getting a Kimber Pro Carry II for his CCW. He's never fired one before so he didn't really want to believe my review of the Pro Carry II.

Here's my experience with the Pro Carry II:

I had rented this pistol at a local gun range and brought 100 rnds of WWB. I won't lie, but I love the trigger. It allowed me to make very small ragged holes in the target. BUT I would never trust my life to one of these guns. In nearly every magazine we had at least one FTF or FTE. I had one instance where I couldn't get the trigger to function for some reason. It was in battery, thumb safety was down, and the grip safety was depressed. I had to drop the magazine and clear the pistol before I could get it to function again. The Kimber also had a nasty habit of ejecting shells right into the middle of our foreheads.

For a high priced gun, I would want it to work 100% out of the box. Boy oh boy did the kimber fail this test. I've never had problems like this in any other gun. It decidedly left a sour taste in my mouth for 1911s. Although I would still like to own one someday.
 
Daemon688,

I would not let your gun rental experience ruin your opinion of 1911's or Kimber for that matter. There's alot of simple maintenance reasons that could cause a rental gun to run poorly; cleaning and extractor adjustment to name two.

I've had a Kimber TLE with an internal extractor for few years that has been flawless. I plan on buying another and will let you guys know if it is any different.

I think a lot of Kimber problems have to do with short barrel 1911's and external extractors. These are 2 areas where the buyer should beware.
 
Well, I went and bought another Kimber, a Stainless TLE with internal extractor, to go with my black TLE mentioned.

It will be a few days before I can disassemble, lubricate, and get to the range. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
Maybe I am lucky, I have owned three Kimbers (Custom II, Ultra Carry II, and a Target Match) all with no problems (I sold them all, expect the Target Match). Makes me sick to the stomach, to think "What if I have a problem with it, will Kimber take care of it?"
 
The sad fact is, we never know when we are going to get a lemon...from any company. And so, we can only make our purchases with the faith that if it (any brand pistol) breaks, that it will be corrected properly, promptly and without expense. I have come to believe that it makes no difference what brand you buy; it only matters that the customer relations director (CRD) is ethical. For fact, any pistol will eventually break. It only varies as to how soon. Only then, will you learn of the CRD’s ethics.
 
My circle of shooting buddies lists seven Kimbers spread among five shooters. Did a quick poll of them this morning (at the range) and no one can remember their last malfunction. One, (a Custom Shop Eclipse) was returned to have the night sights replaced, and from call to returned part was less than seven working days. Maybe we just got lucky?

Joel
 
I wouldn't think it'd be hard to put together 7 Kimbers in a row without a problem. My personal guess is that if their defect rate was as high as 10% they'd be out of business by next tuesday.

They've bettered their odds by dropping the type II parts (one of the failures on one of my Kimbers) from the Warrior. Doc's gouged frame was clearly a type II issue and my FTRTB was obviously a type II hitch. In at least 2 cases, Kimber solves type II issues by simply plugging their ears and singing "Tangerine" at the top of their lungs.
 
I have a Custom CDP II with @ 800 rounds through it. The only problem I have encountered was FTRB and the more I read about it, the more I lean to Wolff for a new spring.

After round # 350, it fed flawlessly, whatever I put through it from FMJ to HP from 230g to 165g, mixed mag or not. That being said, occasionally it doesn't want to completely seat the first round every so often and this can be fixed by a new spring.

Accurate...faggettaboutit! One ragged hole at 10 yards. Done deal! I'll get a spring and be delighted with this pistol.
 
Hawk:

I've never heard that before...that is hilarious! That aside, I believe that you are precisely correct. There is no way that their defect rate can be 10%...the US would be up-in-arms! No pun intended.

My Warrior is a great pistol, as was my Series I Kimber. In fact, I will go as far as to say that none of my first Kimbers (#1 through #9) ever had a problem! It was Kimber pistols (#10 through 14) that were defective, and I believe that all 5 of those 5 had external extractors. Then, Kimber #15 (my Warrior) has also been excellent. Note, the defective pistols were purchased in a single summer...but, so was the Warrior. So, my defective Kimber rate was precisely 33% (5 of 15), but I do believe that my experience has been the exception.

Snapping Twig:

I'm glad that your Kimber is excellent, as most are. I would request that you return to view those pictures which I posted. Please score the barrel's bore for quality, on a 0 to 10 scale, 10 being highest. Do the same regarding the receiver and components, and the slide and its components. Give me a total score of the "Pro" Raptor total potential of 0 to 30. Then, sum your assessment with if YOU would purchase that very "Pro" Raptor that I have posted. It is one fact to boast of our excellent pistols...we all have them. That resolves nothing. This thread focuses on problematic Kimbers. Please now turn your attention to the problematic "Pro" Raptor, assess it, and tell me, would YOU buy it?!

Doc2005
 
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Doc,

Hey Now. I would love to have a Pro Raptor to add to my Raptor & Ultra all I'm missing is the 4". If I can get one in CA I would it never made the DOJ approved list. Are you telling me I shouldn't waste my time looking for or waiting for it?

I've been sorry to read all along of your issues with both the gun and Dennis but of the three I have I've had little of no issues, however, If I went through what you did I'd surely have poor feelings towards them too.

Since your troubles they have gotten their act together because the three I bought over the last 6 months have been great.

So on that note...Thanks you for helping to change the ways of kimber. I'm sure your posts letters & phone calls along with others has helped the company turn around.

G19
 
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Purchased a Kimber Pro Carry II about 3 years ago. 1450 rds fired with out ANY problems except for magazines. Switched to Wilson 47Ds and cured the mag problems. I replaced the MIM firing group parts with Ed Brown and Wilson parts. There was nothing wrong with the MIM parts, just personal preference. It has a very nice 4 lb trigger pull with a glass rod break. This is my only carry piece and it's 100% reliable.

So as far as I'm concerned Kimber makes great guns! Are they perfect 100% of the time, of course not. But neither are any other brands perfect and that includes the custom makers guns also. Kimber puts out something in the neighbor hood of 50,000 guns a year and you are going to have some lemons. You'll always hear about the bad ones, over and over and over and over, but you'll rarely hear about the good ones. Take some time and read the groups of other makers guns and on different gun boards. You'll see that they all have their share of lemons!!!:)

PS When you read the other makers groups pay attention to some of their customer service horror stories, some of them make Dennis and his group look like angels!!!!!!!
 
GF - noted that the MIM parts were swapped out only due to personal preference and that numerous owners swap out mags.

But with Wilson mags and a Brown/Wilson FCG, a lot of people wouldn't really consider it a Kimber anymore. It might have been a Kimber once but now it's a custom. I'm not at all clear on how much of that rubs off on Kimber. My Ultra didn't start messing up until after 500 rounds - if I had turned it into a Wilson / Brown / Kimber I'm not sure those issues would have come up. Probably, but who knows?

Similarly, ST notes that his is perfect except for FTRTBs that will no doubt be cured by a Wolff spring. One still wonders why Kimber shipped a product with a defective or incorrect recoil spring.

Defective magazines and defective springs and both are great guns. Perhaps our expectations of a 1K firearm are simply different.

It would be nice to think they've cleaned up in the last year. I traded my problem-child Ultra CDP for a 686 so my dog has left the fight.
 
Hawk:

That is basically where I am at present...do I keep my Warrior or trade it even-up for a new Colt? I have that very offer standing from a local gun shop. To be certain, the Colt is worth less (at least on paper) than the Warrior, so is, yet one more financial loss. What I ponder, or try to project, what will be the value of each pistol respective in the future as a collectible piece? There, I suspect that the Colt will hold its value better, but, people are pretty hot on Warriors. Then, going back to the point that all pistols eventually need repair, what will be the treatment from each company at that point?

Recent Posts:

The most recent posts are illustrative of "skirting the issue". Furthermore, they presuppose the existence of continuing issues by ignoring the contradictory evidence posted by numerous, unsatisfied customers. It is tantamount rather to the ostrich and the sand, or kindergarten egocentrism, "My Kimber is good, so all Kimbers are good. I am happy, so you should be happy." All is not well at either at Kimber, nor at Dennislandia. I submit that by virtue of the fact that people continue to post factual evidence of defective product and dissatisfactory service, that Kimber has not improved, nor has Dennis stepped up to the plate.

In closing, not one of the recent posts has stepped up to the plate to assess the "Pro" Raptor as requested, nor have they asserted if THEY would purchase it, and if they would be content that Dennis returned it to the owner, untouched, and as photographed after the non-repair.
 
A guy I worked with bought a Kimber Stainless Ten II and I was one of the worst made guns I have seen. It also didn't work. He took it back to the gunstore and they said it was factory defective and gave him his money back. Something about the feedramp having a gap or something. I forget what he said but it was a POS for sure.

He used to have an old Kimber that he loved but said the plastic Kimber were a joke and wouldn't buy one. I don't know about the newer steel guns. I have heard they are made in S. America out of castings.
 
I had a Kimber Eclipse Ultra II and it was nothing but problems. I never had to deal with Dennis directly, as I went through my gun shop, but it went back to Kimber twice. That's in addition to being worked on in the shop. I recently traded it. I'm glad Kimber has satisfied customers, but I was at the point where I didn't trust the pistol, and for a carry piece, that's not acceptable.

I won't trash Kimber, but I probably won't be buying one in the future, either.
 
Doc
The Warrior would be a tough decision. I'm in no rush to take a bath on my Eclipse. I'll trade it or sell it if the opportunity arises but it's one of the "good ones" so there's no urgency. Apart from a shattered safety, my issues were type II derived - the Warrior is immune from those concerns.
 
kgriggs8:

I have heard numerous people comment on the no-longer forged receiver and slide. I have always thought that Kimber was forged, heat-treated, then machined. I hope that they have held true to that standard. The last I verified this (data from 2 years back), they were still forged. I recently posted that finding (the past 3 or 4 months).


Hawk:

Amen to that! In fact, look in the bedside thread...what pistol is at my side at night?! Warrior! A Warrior and an 870 Tactical 12 gauge keep me sleeping comfortable.

JonP:

Great comments! I agree. I do not want to come across as "trashing" Kimber. I hope people do note my many positive comments. To me, it is the "principle" of the matter. Yes, my Warrior is excellent. However, my "brothers" are not being treated properly, and as such, I too have to stand behind them, and perpetuate the insistence that Kimber improve, and Dennis step up to the plate. I would hate to see Kimber fold. It would be a horrid loss to America!
 
I had a Kimber Eclipse Ultra II and it was nothing but problems. I never had to deal with Dennis directly, as I went through my gun shop, but it went back to Kimber twice.
Click to expand...

JonP touches on an excellent point: a good dealer can take a lot of the pain out of a less than ideal new pistol. They can ship for less money and may well have more strokes than we do.

I no longer patronize any dealers whose attitude with a new gun they sold me can be summed up with "Good luck with that, guy".
 
my custom classic is very reliable. It's a shame you have had such a horrible expereince. I love kimber's, but have seen several posts on here where people have had a bad experience. hope they sort everything out for you.
 
Doc,

I'd buy a PRO Raptor II in a heartbeat and am looking for one in CA at this very moment. There is no doubt or argument you were treated poorly and recieved badly made guns durring a specific period years ago. However your criticism along with others has turned things around at kimber and lately they have been more accomodating with Customer Service and have increased their Quality Control substantially. Dennis is another story entirely. He is curt and unfriendly, perhaps management said something to him. He doesn't have that bad a rap on http://www.m1911.org/
 
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