CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I never understood the fascination with SBH or Bisley hammers and greatly prefer the standard SAA/Blackhawk type hammer. For me it's easier and more positive to grab and I don't shift my grip to do it.
Single action revolver in .45LC
- Thread starter Water-Man
- Start date
- Status
Driftwood Johnson
Member
OK, let's talk about springs and action jobs for a minute.
Firearms manufacturers install strong springs, especially the hammer spring, in guns to make sure they will fire each and every time.
The spring has to be strong enough to fire all brands of primers every time, AND it has to be strong enough to overcome the friction generated when the internal parts rub against the frame and each other.
It stands to reason that if you reduce the strength of the spring enough, you will reach a point where the spring can no longer deliver enough energy to reliably fire every brand of primer.
That is where an action job comes in. An action job will polish the areas of the parts that rub against each other to reduce friction to an absolute minimum. Manufacturers do not do this. The parts, including the frame, come off the machinery and get assembled with whatever rough surfaces were left behind by the manufacturing process. This only stands to reason. To hand polish all of those surfaces would increase the cost of manufacturing and drive up the cost to the consumer.
With a good action job, internal friction has been reduced to a point where lighter springs can be substituted and the gun will still be reliable firing all brands of primers.
But just putting in lighter springs is not an action job.
As a disclaimer, I have never handled a Smoke Wagon. But checking the price, I find it hard to believe there can have been much internal work done to them when the price is $565 compared to the price of $525 for the price of a standard Cattleman. $40 for an action job? I don't think so. Even to replace the springs you have to take the gun completely apart, and that is going to take somebody a little bit of time. Then pop in new springs and button it up again is perhaps worth $40. But an action job? I don't think so. Again, I have not personally handled a Smoke Wagon, and I might be wrong, but I don't think you are going to get an action job for that kind of money.
Yes, anybody who is not all thumbs can substitute springs. Yes, the hammer will be less difficult to pull back for somebody with arthritis. And hopefully the gun will still fire all brands of primers.
I will address a couple of questions with this photo. The 2nd Gen Colt at the top has had an action job done by an expert Cowboy Action Gunsmith. The hammer is light and easy to pull back, and the trigger pull is right about 2 1/2 pounds. The original hammer spring in this gun was so thick it could have been used in the suspension of a Mack Truck. It took a lot of effort to haul it back. Now there is an after market hammer spring in this revolver that makes the hammer easy to pull back. Incidentally, a light hammer spring also slightly reduces the trigger pull because it lessens the amount of friction the trigger needs to overcome to release the hammer. At first we put a wire trigger/bolt spring in the gun, but that reduced the trigger pull down below 2 pounds and I was not comfortable with that. So we put the original trigger/bolt spring back in and that put the trigger pull right where I like it. Because the action job got rid of a lot of the extra internal friction, this revolver will fire any brand of primers. However I usually use Federals, because they are the easiest to set off.
This is the style of hammer spring that is inside this Colt. The slot cut down the center reduces the strength of the spring.
https://www.brownells.com/handgun-p...ings/saa-cowboy-action-springs-prod16557.aspx
The Bisley Colt at the bottom of the photo was made in 1908. However it has been extensively reworked. A 2nd Gen cylinder and barrel for 44 Special were added, and the fancy grips are modern. The springs are all original, and the hammer pull is still quite heavy. Thinking about arthritis, the lower hammer spur would probably be easier to reach, but don't forget that the leverage is also reduced. I suspect that if this revolver had the same hammer spring as the 2nd Gen the hammer pull would actually be a bit heavier.
While I'm on the subject of Bisleys, Rugers version of the Bisley grip is quite different than the originals. The originals were more swept forward. The Ruger version is pretty much straight up and down. An Uberti with a Bisley grip will look just like the original Colt Bisley. When I first started shooting Black Powder in CAS everybody told me that I needed the Ruger Bisley grip to control the stout recoil of full house Black Powder loads. I bought one and only took it to one match. I decided I did not need the extra length of the Ruger Bisley grip and sold it. I have been using regular plow handle grips ever since. As a matter fact, I used the money from that Ruger Bisley towards that 2nd Gen Colt. And I only shoot it with Black Powder.
One more photo. The guy in that video mentions the Smoke Wagon has the 2nd Gen style sights, but he does not explain what it is. In this photo, the gun on the left is a 2nd Gen Colt. Notice the rear sight is squared off. The gun on the right is my Uberti Cattleman. It has a V groove rear sight just like on the 1st Gen Colts. The front sight on the 2nd Gen Colt is also thicker than the 1st Gen style front sight. Colt changed to the squared off rear sight when they introduced the 2nd Gen in 1956. I find it easier to see than the V groove type rear sight, but I have really terrible eyesight and would trip on my own feet if I was not wearing my glasses. Most Uberti single action revolvers are going to have the V groove style rear sight.
Firearms manufacturers install strong springs, especially the hammer spring, in guns to make sure they will fire each and every time.
The spring has to be strong enough to fire all brands of primers every time, AND it has to be strong enough to overcome the friction generated when the internal parts rub against the frame and each other.
It stands to reason that if you reduce the strength of the spring enough, you will reach a point where the spring can no longer deliver enough energy to reliably fire every brand of primer.
That is where an action job comes in. An action job will polish the areas of the parts that rub against each other to reduce friction to an absolute minimum. Manufacturers do not do this. The parts, including the frame, come off the machinery and get assembled with whatever rough surfaces were left behind by the manufacturing process. This only stands to reason. To hand polish all of those surfaces would increase the cost of manufacturing and drive up the cost to the consumer.
With a good action job, internal friction has been reduced to a point where lighter springs can be substituted and the gun will still be reliable firing all brands of primers.
But just putting in lighter springs is not an action job.
As a disclaimer, I have never handled a Smoke Wagon. But checking the price, I find it hard to believe there can have been much internal work done to them when the price is $565 compared to the price of $525 for the price of a standard Cattleman. $40 for an action job? I don't think so. Even to replace the springs you have to take the gun completely apart, and that is going to take somebody a little bit of time. Then pop in new springs and button it up again is perhaps worth $40. But an action job? I don't think so. Again, I have not personally handled a Smoke Wagon, and I might be wrong, but I don't think you are going to get an action job for that kind of money.
Yes, anybody who is not all thumbs can substitute springs. Yes, the hammer will be less difficult to pull back for somebody with arthritis. And hopefully the gun will still fire all brands of primers.
I will address a couple of questions with this photo. The 2nd Gen Colt at the top has had an action job done by an expert Cowboy Action Gunsmith. The hammer is light and easy to pull back, and the trigger pull is right about 2 1/2 pounds. The original hammer spring in this gun was so thick it could have been used in the suspension of a Mack Truck. It took a lot of effort to haul it back. Now there is an after market hammer spring in this revolver that makes the hammer easy to pull back. Incidentally, a light hammer spring also slightly reduces the trigger pull because it lessens the amount of friction the trigger needs to overcome to release the hammer. At first we put a wire trigger/bolt spring in the gun, but that reduced the trigger pull down below 2 pounds and I was not comfortable with that. So we put the original trigger/bolt spring back in and that put the trigger pull right where I like it. Because the action job got rid of a lot of the extra internal friction, this revolver will fire any brand of primers. However I usually use Federals, because they are the easiest to set off.
This is the style of hammer spring that is inside this Colt. The slot cut down the center reduces the strength of the spring.
https://www.brownells.com/handgun-p...ings/saa-cowboy-action-springs-prod16557.aspx
The Bisley Colt at the bottom of the photo was made in 1908. However it has been extensively reworked. A 2nd Gen cylinder and barrel for 44 Special were added, and the fancy grips are modern. The springs are all original, and the hammer pull is still quite heavy. Thinking about arthritis, the lower hammer spur would probably be easier to reach, but don't forget that the leverage is also reduced. I suspect that if this revolver had the same hammer spring as the 2nd Gen the hammer pull would actually be a bit heavier.
While I'm on the subject of Bisleys, Rugers version of the Bisley grip is quite different than the originals. The originals were more swept forward. The Ruger version is pretty much straight up and down. An Uberti with a Bisley grip will look just like the original Colt Bisley. When I first started shooting Black Powder in CAS everybody told me that I needed the Ruger Bisley grip to control the stout recoil of full house Black Powder loads. I bought one and only took it to one match. I decided I did not need the extra length of the Ruger Bisley grip and sold it. I have been using regular plow handle grips ever since. As a matter fact, I used the money from that Ruger Bisley towards that 2nd Gen Colt. And I only shoot it with Black Powder.
One more photo. The guy in that video mentions the Smoke Wagon has the 2nd Gen style sights, but he does not explain what it is. In this photo, the gun on the left is a 2nd Gen Colt. Notice the rear sight is squared off. The gun on the right is my Uberti Cattleman. It has a V groove rear sight just like on the 1st Gen Colts. The front sight on the 2nd Gen Colt is also thicker than the 1st Gen style front sight. Colt changed to the squared off rear sight when they introduced the 2nd Gen in 1956. I find it easier to see than the V groove type rear sight, but I have really terrible eyesight and would trip on my own feet if I was not wearing my glasses. Most Uberti single action revolvers are going to have the V groove style rear sight.
il.bill
Member
I always learn something when Driftwood Johnson joins the discussion - and those pictures are gorgeous as well as informative. Thanks for sharing!
- Status