Single Six/Ten Cylinder Indexing Woes...

[Orion8472]

When Ruger went away from the "4 click" to the transfer bar, they seemed to lose the proper indexing when ejecting casings. At the "click", the ejection bar hits between cylinder chambers. This is a pet peeve of mine. As I see it, ALL Single Action revolvers should work in the proper way ["click" stop, free ejection rod travel].

Here's my Single Ten, gate down, stopped at the "click", pushing ejection Rod [hard to see, but it is against the cylinder].



Here's a "fix" I did to remedy this indexing issue. The yellow plastic part, that comes in the cylinder when new, was used by placing one of the rods between the hammer and the frame. When I did this, the indexing was as it should be.



I really wish that Ruger had placed a detent in the hammer that would hold the hammer back about ~ 1/4th of an inch to where indexing would be right.

Comments?

 

[Old Fuff]

I have always favored 6-shot .22 revolvers (of any make or model) because when you increase the number of chambers you decrease the time and space the cylinder bolt/stop has to drop and then come up again. In this case it also misaligns the chamber with the ejector rod. Buying the 6-shot version should eliminate the problem.

If you really feel the need for having more then 6 rounds before reloading consider buying either a hand-ejector revolver or a .22 pistol with a magazine.

 

[RaceM]

I agree, the indexing for extraction could be better. What I do is cradle the gun in my left hand, with the thumb against the cylinder to stop rotation where I want it.

 

[Orion8472]

Old Fuff, I have seen this same thing happen with 6 shot revolvers, too. I think it all started when they tried to make them more safe with the transfer bar. Using the plastic piece makes it index correctly.

RaceM, . . . I'm sure that is the way Ruger expects people to do it, but is just that way because they didn't bother to take the time to design it to index correctly. SOME of the newer models have a patented design that allows correct indexing just by opening the gate. The .22lr revolvers don't have this, and that's the reason for this thread. If they would have just included a detent for the hammer to open to the position seen in picture #2, there would have been no problems.

 

[CraigC]

Buying the 6-shot version should eliminate the problem.

The problem exists in all New Model Rugers but the Bearcat and is even worse in six-shot guns. The Single Ten comes closer than any other Ruger, other than the New Vaquero and new flat-tops which have the reverse indexing pawl, to indexing properly. The Single Ten is much easier to load than a 6-shot version is probably going to be easier in ejection as well. The problem lies not with capacity but is inherent in the New Model design. It is one of many reasons why myself and others prefer a traditional sixgun with the half cock action.

The USFA 12/22 is also imminently better than its 6-shot counterpart.

 

[Orion8472]

Thanks, Craig. They COULD have made a "half cock" of sorts [would have been more like a 1/5th cock, really] to take care of this indexing problem...as I have shown with mine. I bet more would have been sold if they had. For me, that is part of the Single Action Army charm, having to 1/2 cock it with loading gate open for loading an extraction.

I wonder how hard it would have been for Ruger to have included the reverse index pawl on all their SA revolvers?

 

[savit260]

I had a custom 1/2 cock SBH hammer made to cure the problem on my New Model Blackhawk . Everything indexes as it should for loading and unloading. Add to that ,the advantage of not having to go all the way back around should you flub the hammer while cocking.

I believe Power Customs makes a standard and bisley syle half cock hammer that is supposedly a drop in item.

 

[T Bran]

What year did they start using the transfer bar system ?
I own both a single six and a SBH, when you open the loading gate the cylinder is free to turn in a clockwise direction on both of these guns. If you over rotate you must go around again but there is no need to fiddle with the hammer.
I havent handled any of the newer guns so please pardon my ignorance.

 

[savit260]

"New Models" with transfer bars showed up around 1973.

If the "New Model" had been made with a propper half cock position, (like a Colt or virtually any other single action six gun) then "over rotation" wouldn't be a problem i.e. it simply wouldn't happen. When the cylinder hits the "click" ... everything is lined up as it should be to eject the case or load.

The problem with the New Models is when they hit the "click" it's NOT propperly aligned to load or eject.

Kind of a major design flaw IMO and that's why I had a custom half cock hammer made to correct it.

 

[CraigC]

They COULD have made a "half cock" of sorts...to take care of this indexing problem...

They could have but Ole Bill did not think it necessary. Apparently it was more important to reduce or eliminate the safety issue concerning carrying with the hammer down on a loaded chamber than it was to address the loading/unloading issue. Took them 32yrs to fix the issue and even then only in certain guns.

As stated, the Power Custom half-cock hammer/trigger kit is another solution. It works as advertised and corrects this issue, which can be very irritating even for the diehard sixgun fancier. Doesn't make it feel like a Colt or Old Model but it is a vast improvement. Jim Stroh and others also offer a half cock modification to the original parts but none of these solutions are inexpensive.

What year did they start using the transfer bar system ?

1973 with the introduction of the "New Model" action.

If you over rotate you must go around again but there is no need to fiddle with the hammer.

Sounds like New Models, newer guns are no different. Other than the New Vaquero and new flat-tops, which have the "reverse indexing pawl" that cures the issue.

 

[T Bran]

Thank you Craig.

 

[savit260]

others also offer a half cock modification to the original parts but none of these solutions are inexpensive.

That's the truth! The half cock mod and the action job that went with it cost nearly as much as the gun did. Totally worth it though IMO

Doesn't feel like a Colt or Old Model, but it does feel pretty darned good.

 

[Orion8472]

It is stuff like this that happens when companies try to be overly safe [not a bad thing] at the expense of function. They obviously can do it with the transfer bar. As Craig pointed out, there are models that DO index correctly. I think it is Ruger trying to cut corners.

Unfortunately, I've seen TWO issues with my Single Ten. . . . and I haven't even had the damn thing out to the range yet! One problem is fixed, . . . the other one I just discovered tonight. Went to test the loading and unloading and apparently the cylinder is too close to the back of the frame so that when I start putting in rounds, though they seat all the way into the chambers, . . . the cylinder starts sticking and it gets hard to turn the cylinder. So, I guess I'm calling them [again] tomorrow.

 

[Orion8472]

Looks like I'll have to wait until next week to call. Perhaps the end of the week. The NH location is down for repairs until July 9th.

 

[vicdotcom]

What year did they start using the transfer bar system ?
I own both a single six and a SBH, when you open the loading gate the cylinder is free to turn in a clockwise direction on both of these guns. If you over rotate you must go around again but there is no need to fiddle with the hammer.
I havent handled any of the newer guns so please pardon my ignorance.

Well, the all spin freely. The problem is when you spin the cylinder with the gate open, when it "clicks" you should be able to push the spent casing out. But without half-cocking the hammer, when it "clicks" the ejector rod is not aligned with the shell casing. You have to give the cylinder another 1/4 inch turn in order to align the ejector rod.

Now if you open the gate and hold the hammer back, you can see when the cylinder "clicks" you can push the ejector rod all the way out to eject the casing.

 

[chicharrones]

the other one I just discovered tonight. Went to test the loading and unloading and apparently the cylinder is too close to the back of the frame so that when I start putting in rounds, though they seat all the way into the chambers, . . . the cylinder starts sticking and it gets hard to turn the cylinder. So, I guess I'm calling them [again] tomorrow.

My Single Six that I bought new a few months ago had the same problem. In my case it looked like the cartridges were all the way in the chambers, but in fact they were a couple thousandths not seated. There isn't a lot of room between the frame and cylinder in the recoil shield area on one side.

I ended up polishing the rough as hell chambers which apparently were restricting the cartridges from sliding in all the way. Since my Single Six has two cylinders I had to polish 12 chambers, not just 10.

I wasn't patient enough to wait on Ruger, but I'm sure they will take care of you.

I have gotten used to the indexing problem for shell ejection. I wouldn't mind it being easier though.

 

[Orion8472]

Not sure I would be able to polish it correctly. But yeah, I'm sure Ruger will make it right. Just sucks that it will be the second time sending in a revolver that many people told me was "much better quality than _______". I'm pretty soured on new Rugers now.

 

[Orion8472]

I just checked it tonight and perhaps I was doing something wrong yesterday because it doesn't seem to be dragging like it was yesterday. A small bit, but okay.

 

[chicharrones]

Different ammo can cause that. Or even the same ammo from the same box. Roughly formed lead bullets can prevent proper seating in the chamber.

Even if you get them all to chamber well enough to spin the cylinder, it may change once you start firing the gun. Fouling will blow back into the brass case area of the chamber not allowing subsequent loads to seat deeply enough. Polishing the chambers makes this problem appear much, much later in the shooting session.

If you take out your cylinder and hold it up to light, you may see a lot of circular tool marks in the chambers. My Single Six had those marks and it caused plenty of problems on my first shooting sessions.

Once your gun is up and running right you will love it. It just sucks that new guns have to be tinkered with.

 

[Orion8472]

Checked it again. It seems that the cylinder MAY not be true. It spins okay until it comes back around to the same area of the cylinder. I can see where the rounds are scraping against the frame where the firing pin pokes through.

 

[Jaymo]

I couldn't even get 2 rounds in a row to fire, the first time I took my new .44 spl flattop. At least on the first 2 or 3 cylinders I shot.
I would fire one round, then the hammer wouldn't cock.
I'd have to open the gate and rotate the cylinder a full revolution. Then, it would cock.
After 2 or 3 cylinders full, it worked perfectly.

I don't like the fact that when it clicks, the brass isn't aligned perfectly enough with the frame cutout to eject and i have to rotate it back against the pawl.
The brass has to be at the top of the cutout in order to eject. Not in the center of the cutout. It's will take some getting used to.