Situation in an underground parking garage

[joey93turbo]

A couple nights ago I was over at a friends apartment in a not so good part of town watching movies. It's about 12:30am and I'm leaving. So I take the elevator downstairs and procede to exit to the parking garage, which was well lit. I wasn't carrying a gun, just my Benchmade clipped to my right pocket, and my DVD player under my left arm. Upon exiting the elevator I scan and notice three "thug types" next to a garbage can, huddled as if they're shootin dice or dealing, about 100-200ft. away. Knowing this area well I slipped my hand into my pocket over my knife so I could unclip it quickly. Since they're next to the only exit to the street, I have to go this way. I begin walking toward the exit in a casual manner (around here if you act scared or nervous you're just asking for more trouble). As I get about 50 ft. away from them one of them turns around and says "hey man, what you got there boy", then begins walking toward me. I unclip the knife. He says "hey wait up dawg" and I can hear him gettin closer. I release the axis lock as flip the blade out, which made a loud click. As soon as I did that his footsteps stopped, he turned around and walked back to his buddies. I exited the garage, got in my truck which was parked on the street, and left.

This turned out ok for me, but I'm just curious as to what you guys would have done or if I should have done something differently. Please tell me what you think...

 

[SAG0282]

I think you handled it really very well.......you remained calm, you remained in control of the exchange, you presented an aura of confidence that certainly worked to your advantage, and you successfully thwarted what would at least have been a robbery against a numerically superior group. "Keep moving, no victim to see here."

The only recommendation I'd have is to have your friend alert the manager in a formal way as to the problem of these loitering thugs, which might result in an increased police patrol of that area or the acquisition of on-site security, as it did with at my father's complex. I would likely have issued a "stay back", and had the thug kept coming I'd have lifted my jacket to reveal my omnipresent USP.

For situations like this one though, I'm considering picking up some OC. In the absence of a weapon in this person's hand, it would have been nice to have had another force option, like OC or the knife in your case.

Well done.

 

[reagansquad]

Prolly thought you clicking knife was the clicking safety on a gun. I've been in that situation enough times to know that from your description, he wanted your DVD player.

 

[jojo]

I thought the same thing reagansquad, most people could would most likely mistake the sound of a knife lock with a gunsafety.

I'd say that you handled it quite well, remaining calm is a tough thing to do.

jojo

 

[sturmruger]

Sounds like you did really well. Your lucky the clicking of your knife sounded so distinctive. If you hang out in that area a lot you might want to look into getting a carry permit.

 

[joey93turbo]

Thanks for your comments guys. When I pulled my knife I had it down by my right side, he was approaching from the rear right so I know he saw me flick it open. I think he might have thought it was a switchblade or auto, since it's pretty easy to manipulate the axis lock to appear that way, but I'm positive he saw the knife.

I've lived in this area my whole life so I'm a good judge of the intentions of people around here. I do have my carry permit and a Sig P226 .40 but no holster yet. Even if I did, I don't think I would have drawn, I'd drop the DVD player and run before I shot someone over it. I also carry a small bottle of pepper spray along with my knife, and I'll continue carrying both when I do start carrying the gun. That way I can respond to the situation with the appropriate force. For all I know if I had drawn a gun one of other guys would have drawn on me. It's not uncommon for street thugs to carry around here. I know alot of people would tell me to move and such but this is my home, where I've lived 22 years (my whole life) and where my family and friends reside. Luckily this area is getting better instead of worse.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Ya done good.

 

[progunner1957]

Hey, Joey - sounds like you handled the situation well. My only recommendation would be 1.) Next time, draw a gun, or 2.) If you aren't licensed to carry a gun, carry a BFK (big f***ing knife).

I had a similar situation, but it was 1 on 1, not 3 on 1. I was carrying my Cold Steel Recon Scout (7 1/2 in. blade) and the other guy got religion very quickly when I drew the Scout.

The experts say, "carry enough gun." I would say carry enough knife.
True, you can kill a man with 3" blade, but a BIG knife has more intimidation power; it leaves no doubt in your assailant's mind about the outcome if you bury that big blade in him. It will reduce the chance of you being forced to do so.

 

[newman32]

Glad it worked out for you, but I can't help think you were really, really, really lucky.

If I spotted 3 "hoods" near the only exit in a parking garage at 1 AM - man, I would have just turned around and went back from where I came from, ESPECIALLY considering they were 100-200 feet away. Why wait until they are at a few feet to decide to "drop the DVD player and run" or draw a blade, or even a pistol if you had one? Why even go there? Do you think if they were armed with guns they would allow you to draw first before thew drew upon you?

Even with a gun, I don't think 3 on 1 odds are too good. Maybe they also have guns, knives, pipes, whatever. I'm just saying that you knowingly walked into the proverbial hornet's nest. You say its not uncommon for street thugs to "carry around here", so why did you take that risk?

If you are going to be aware of your surroundings, and still put yourself in the same dangerous situation as if your were in "condition white", then what's the point?

 

[wdlsguy]

If I spotted 3 "hoods" near the only exit in a parking garage at 1 AM - man, I would have just turned around and went back from where I came from

Ditto.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Know that drawing a knife holds no lower legal standing than drawing a gun.

 

[mfree]

But he didn't draw a knife.... he made a noise.

 

[reagansquad]

Joey, didn't see you were from Portland. My dad grew up there in east Portland and has some horror stories... Not as bad as mine though.

 

[GEM]

Did good. I flashbacked to a similar situation years ago. For whatever stupid reason, I needed some cash at an ATM in Bend, Oregon. I'm at the ATM and a car pulls up and a guy gets out. Doesn't mess with his wallet for his card. I look him in the eye and say; How are you doing? - with some alertness in my tone. At the same time, I remove my folder, open and clean my nails. He gives a ????ty grin and leaves. Money comes out, and I leave. This was before permit days. Forgot all about that.

 

[nemesis]

Since they're next to the only exit to the street, I have to go this way. I begin walking toward the exit in a casual manner (around here if you act scared or nervous you're just asking for more trouble).

Well, in my case, I do carry a gun.

I guess when I spotted them, and they saw me, I would casually move out of sight behind a concrete pillar or another car. Those parking lots are an acoustic dream and sound carries and resonates off the many hard surfaces.

I'd pull my gun, rack back the slide and let it fly. Nobody will miss the sound. Be a good citizen and pick up your ejected round and pocket it. Now move confidently back into their field of vision and say "ARE YOU GENTLEMEN TENANTS HERE OR JUST VISITING?" Take control, assume authority, put them on the defense.

They know what a pistol sounds like when the slide slams home but you have not brandished a firearm. Remember, dogs are great intimidators and will become aggressive to scare you.

Always go straight for the dog and see who backs up. Dogs always answer to a human somewhere and street dogs answer to bigger dogs.

 

[carebear]

Nemesis, you might want to think that through more.

The other way it could go down is...

You (not an authority figure for "the state" or even that building under the law) just initiated a confrontation with a drawn firearm, which you obviously manipulated prior (the ejected round in your pocket) (which by the way indicates a degree of premeditation and is an aggravating factor in any future indictment).

Your confrontational tone with a lack of demonstrable authority (no badge or uniform) caused the punks to feel challenged, even threatened (could be a rival crook) and their "street cred" forbids them from backing down (being cowards) in front of each other and the 3-on-1 situation escalates from there.

Somebody gets shot and lives to tell the tale? Do you think you'll LIKE prison?

I'll choose the old legal, moral and wise route of avoiding the situation entirely or at least minimizing any conflict until action becomes inevitable. The deterrent effect of that 'click' would be an example of a minimal and legally/morally supportable action.

 

[nemesis]

I'd pull my gun, rack back the slide and let it fly. Nobody will miss the sound. Be a good citizen and pick up your ejected round and pocket it.

I failed to properly state that I would then reholster and conceal the firearm.

I am an old geezer and not too likely to be taken for a rival gang member unless rival gangs are old caucasians. My gun is not visible and has not been brandished but nobody will doubt its presence. Gang members that play in parking lots have enough anonymity that they can skulk away in honor.

What choice is offered me? I can retreat but not pass safely. The only choices are to withdraw and give up my right to passage or assert some authority, control the encounter and pass by while they are bewildered.

Nobody is in any danger of being shot unless my well being is demonstrably threatened. I didn't get to this age by being stupid.

 

[carebear]

Ok.

Just remember, Joey accomplished safe passage without the theatrics.

 

[iiibdsiil]

Buy your friend a DVD player, they are $40 at walmart, and it would have probably avoided this whole situation.

 

[target4fun]

I think you did good considering how things played out and it seemed like you were aware of what was going on which is also very good but the only thing i realized that you said was that is isnt uncommon for the thugs to be packin, had they been you would have been in a world of **** and could have ment your life, even if you did give up the dvd player, I would Definately invest in a holster for your pistol and make it a note when you leave the house to all ways carry no matter where you go, if there are situations where you cant carry your full size pistol get your self a pocket pistol as well i have a bretta tomcat in .32 with hollow points that would sure give some one a bad day but mostly i carry my .45 and I used to subscribe to the thinking that a .32 is way to small, even though i know it could stop some one its just to small its a guy thing i guess but then i realized all the times i wasnt carrying, and realized its way better than shooting the finger at them! The idea is make it a note when you leave ur house every time ok i got my keys, wallet, cell phone and gun, also a very very good tool is a surefire light i carry this also especally at night because if a thug is approaching i can clearly light him up and blind him at the same time giving me plenty of time to know what i should do and see if hes armed this will give you a extra 3-5 seconds which could mean your life, this is why you always see the cops put the light on you when they pull you over every tool you can have will be priceless when the moment of truth comes, and when it does you need those tools with you, i would take this a lesson to get those tools and always have them with me!

 

[one-shot-one]

Mon. Morn 1/4backing

some times you get good advice form monday morning quarter-backing these situations, but mostly these things are like landing an airplane:
a good landing is any that you can walk away from.
a great landing is where you can use the plane again.
you apearantly had a great landing.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

I also carry a small bottle of pepper spray along with my knife, and I'll continue carrying both when I do start carrying the gun. That way I can respond to the situation with the appropriate force.

There is no situation where a knife is an "appropriate" level of force, and a gun is too much.

They are both deadly weapons in the eyes of the law.

 

[target4fun]

well i like the idea of some oc spray but i stopped carrying my knife cause a spear point is illeagal in san antonio tx where im from as is a lock blade and my gun is legal ... kinda funny but i abide by the rules, the oc spray and ur gun and surefire light would be very effective tools

 

[CAS700850]

joey93turbo, you did it right. We should say that, because you made it to your destination without problems, without bloodshed, without violence. Well done.

My only caution is that you need to take care with the knife, in that I have met a few individuals in my career who would have seen a drawn knife as a challenge, which may have put you into a position of having to actually need the knife. Just an observation from an armchair quarterback on a Monday afternoon.

 

[zahc]

At the same time, I remove my folder, open and clean my nails.

Interesting. I have also found that my nails need a casual trimming (with a spyderco military) in some tense situations.