SKS or M1A: SKS might be better

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SKS_Fiend

SKS_Fiend

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I think I prefer the SKS, it shoots a lighter round, magazine is already attached to the rifle and so is the bayonet. It's a breeze to clean
7.62X39 is easier to shoot than 7.62x51.
And SKS's are almost always cheaper than M1As.

2021-04-22.png

If i could I would put a scope on my SKS
 
.455_Hunter said:
By the way, welcome the THR.
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thank you, i appreciate it.

adcoch1 said:
I have had a few that were very accurate, and if you resist the urge to modify them, they are incredibly reliable.
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I have one in a pistol grip stock with adjustable shoulder. Spray painted in camo, it looks fugly but that's why I love shooting this one the most. I think i got it for <200 $
 
In comparison the 2 rifles share very few commonalities, gas operation and trigger group removal takedown are all I'm coming up with.
As one being better than the other, it's of course, subjective. The cheaper 7.62x39 while reasonably effective at ranges 0-----300, and that's being generous, is no match for the full size battle rifle 7.62x51 out to 600 plus. The ideas behind both rifles are substantial different as well, while both are usefull for a particular purpose neither really fits that overall usefulness exactly.
I own several of each and while one goes bang quite reliably, I find the stock to short, the sights antiquated and the loading system, while fairly effective rather backwards relative to a magazine fed rifle. Being quite durable and robust and built for a very average user lens itself well and is a positive.
Likewise the ammunition cost. As usual though one gets what one pays for, I reload and it's nearly as cheap for me to craft accurate ammunition than to purchase hit or miss steel case beridan primed stuff.
So all in all if your a fiend for the sks party on, their may be folks with a little different view.
Welcome to THR
 
The .30 Short Russian is a pitiful cartridge past about 200 yards.

Too much bullet drop and bleeds energy tremendously. It's an extremely inefficient cartridge.

The .308 Winchester is in another league entirely. No comparison. Range is tripled, stopping power is much better, and it is useful for hunting as well as combat.

The SKS is cheaper. That is the ONLY benefit it has over an M14.
 
It respectfully disagree. As someone who shoots both .308 Win and 7.62x39 pretty regularly I have quite a bit of experience with both. For the ranges that MOST people shoot or hunt , the 7.62x39 is a decent performer. We could make the same argument between .308 Win and .300 WM but as in the x39 discussion we’re just talking about two drastically different cartridges. The truth is, both the M14 and the SKS were outdated designs relative to the tactics employed in their nations Military at the time they originally went into service. Both found more success later in life.

JCooperfan1911 said:
The .30 Short Russian is a pitiful cartridge past about 200 yards.

Too much bullet drop and bleeds energy tremendously. It's an extremely inefficient cartridge.

The .308 Winchester is in another league entirely. No comparison. Range is tripled, stopping power is much better, and it is useful for hunting as well as combat.

The SKS is cheaper. That is the ONLY benefit it has over an M14.
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They're in different weight classes IMO. 308 has nearly 2x the muzzle energy of x39, and x39 is done at 300 yards while the 308 is just getting started.

This thread's like asking who's a better fighter - Mike Tyson or Sugar Ray Leonard? They're in different weight classes, and the best you can do is an indirect pound to pound comparison. The M1A is no doubt the more polished of the two rifles comparing across two classes, but I own an SKS because I didn't want the heavyweight. The extra range of 308 does nothing for the iron-sight shooting I do and I don't like the ammo costs. Heck, I've been shooting my Keltec 9mm PCC more than my SKS, so that tells you where my use case is at.
 
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I’m surprised to hear it’s nearly as cheap for you to reload 7.62x39 as purchase steel cases ammo. Before the latest crisis I was paying <$0.25 per round for steel cased Wolf pretty regularly and couldn’t reload once fired brass for <$0.40 for primed, powered and projectile alone. If you count the cost of brass it would be roughly double the cost for me. What projectiles do you use? I also don’t get measurably better accuracy out of an SKS with hand loaded ammunition.



Risky buisness said:
In comparison the 2 rifles share very few commonalities, gas operation and trigger group removal takedown are all I'm coming up with.
As one being better than the other, it's of course, subjective. The cheaper 7.62x39 while reasonably effective at ranges 0-----300, and that's being generous, is no match for the full size battle rifle 7.62x51 out to 600 plus. The ideas behind both rifles are substantial different as well, while both are usefull for a particular purpose neither really fits that overall usefulness exactly.
I own several of each and while one goes bang quite reliably, I find the stock to short, the sights antiquated and the loading system, while fairly effective rather backwards relative to a magazine fed rifle. Being quite durable and robust and built for a very average user lens itself well and is a positive.
Likewise the ammunition cost. As usual though one gets what one pays for, I reload and it's nearly as cheap for me to craft accurate ammunition than to purchase hit or miss steel case beridan primed stuff.
So all in all if your a fiend for the sks party on, their may be folks with a little different view.
Welcome to THR
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If you go by the two rifles pictured, I would think the 308 isnt all that much hotter than the 7.62x39. Whats the velocity of the 308 out of a 16" barrel?

Now if you were comparing a standard 22" length barrel....

Ive owned a few of both, including a SOCOM. I really dont see the point in chopping the barrel on the M1A. If youre going that route, the SKS is a lot handier.

Truth be told, and as much as I dislike the Ruger Mini's, a Mini 30 with a proper diameter barrel, would probably be the sweet spot here. :)
 
There's SkS's and then there's SKS's.
I've got four very different SKS's: A Yugo model 59, A plain Chinese, A Chinese Model M and a thoroughly modded Chinese with an after-market Monte Carlo type black plastic stock, a bridge-type scope mount that mounts from the rear sight to the take-down bolt (which replaced the take-down pin), and a number of other updates.
The scope mount is very rigid and sturdy.
Each has its own attractions.
I also have a very nice M-1 that is in a whole different category.
Not better, not worse, just different.
I've tried M-1a's.
If I didn't have an M-1 then I might consider one.
It just didn't feel like an improvement.
 
ColoradoMinuteMan said:
It respectfully disagree. As someone who shoots both .308 Win and 7.62x39 pretty regularly I have quite a bit of experience with both. For the ranges that MOST people shoot or hunt , the 7.62x39 is a decent performer. We could make the same argument between .308 Win and .300 WM but as in the x39 discussion we’re just talking about two drastically different cartridges. The truth is, both the M14 and the SKS were outdated designs relative to the tactics employed in their nations Military at the time they originally went into service. Both found more success later in life.
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The M14 went on to serve as a DMR/sniper up to the present day by the worlds greatest military power (USA).

The SKS is used by honor guards in strictly non combat ceremonial roles unless we’re counting the poorest most ill equipped 3rd world militaries in the world.
 
7.62x39 if handloaded can be pretty potent. CFE BLK has breathed new life into the Russian cartridge to be sure.

One with handloads and a 20" barrel can get 123gr bullets cruising above 2,600 fps.

As @trackskippy said if we are talking a 20" SKS barrel compared to a 16" SOCOM M1a then the difference isn't too great.
 
JCooperfan1911 said:
The M14 went on to serve as a DMR/sniper up to the present day by the worlds greatest military power (USA).

The SKS is used by honor guards in strictly non combat ceremonial roles unless we’re counting the poorest most ill equipped 3rd world militaries in the world.
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I’m aware of the use of the M14 in modern/present day and not discounting its viability. I don’t put as much faith in “being used by the US military” as a reason it is somehow exceptional as you do. I’ve been closely involved in the military my whole life and have witness the dysfunction that occurs, particularly at the level where decisions are made in regards to weapons programs. The primary reason the M14 exists in US military service today has very little to do with it being exceptional but much more to do with a failure to plan adequately for fighting in places like Afghanistan. You’re also seemingly ignoring one of the primary pillars of your debate, the cartridge. The AK platform, has likely delivered more death than any other small arms platform, and a great deal of that was done with the 7.62x39 cartridge.
 
ColoradoMinuteMan said:
I’m aware of the use of the M14 in modern/present day and not discounting its viability. I don’t put as much faith in “being used by the US military” as a reason it is somehow exceptional as you do. I’ve been closely involved in the military my whole life and have witness the dysfunction that occurs, particularly at the level where decisions are made in regards to weapons programs. The primary reason the M14 exists in US military service today has very little to do with it being exceptional but much more to do with a failure to plan adequately for fighting in places like Afghanistan. You’re also seemingly ignoring one of the primary pillars of your debate, the cartridge. The AK platform, has likely delivered more death than any other small arms platform, and a great deal of that was done with the 7.62x39 cartridge.
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You claimed the SKS found more success later in life. How?
 
JCooperfan1911 said:
You claimed the SKS found more success later in life. How?
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Vietnam war, several conflicts in the Balkans including the Croatian War of Independence they were used along side of AKs and successfully. I had some really good conversations about the SKS while chatting with ex servicemen who served in the various wars surrounding the breakup of Yugoslavia.
 
JCooperfan1911 said:
You claimed the SKS found more success later in life. How?
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Back in the 90's, you could, and many did buy a case of 10 or 12 SKS's in a big green box, with all the accessories for each, for what you could buy a basic M1A for.

Lots of SKS's were sold here for a song, and most people I know have, or have had, at least one, and a lot of them had more than one.

The SKS still seems to be pretty well liked and available today. Youre just paying a lot more than $80 for a gun and a case of ammo these days. :)
 
Several years ago when I first got my C&R, Century ran a "U-Fix-'Em" sale on Yugo SKS's with cracked stocks; three of them for $299. So I got my three and thought I'd finally found the perfect truck/pasture/utility rifle. I repaired the stocks, I bedded them, I installed Tech Sights, I piddled with the horrible triggers, worked up handloads, and never left the house without one slung over my shoulder. Then one day it occurred to me that I was lugging a rifle around that was for all practical purposes the same size and weight as an M1/M1A only it had an appalling trigger, was chambered in a cartridge that was at its best inside 200 yds. and struggled to shoot 3" groups at 100 yds. I gave one to my godson and sold the other two.

U7NK9xyl.jpg

I still don't miss them be completely understand their appeal to some shooters.

35W
 
trackskippy said:
If you go by the two rifles pictured, I would think the 308 isnt all that much hotter than the 7.62x39. Whats the velocity of the 308 out of a 16" barrel?
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i cant say for a 16, but my 18" .308 runs 150@2500, (cheap factory Tulammo) 125@28-2900. That's a starting load with H-335. I think I could get a 150 up to about 2750 pretty easily with a different powder.
For contrast, most factory 7.62x39 runs 122gr@2300.
edit to change to H335, don't use H110 in a .308!
 
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While we’re on the subject, the dislike of the SKS length of pull has always been curious to me. Compared to toner carbines it’s very similar. M1 Carbine, AK, Mini 14, AR15. In fact my Yugo SKS side by side with M1A isn’t materially different LOP.
 
The really big difference really comes down to the .308 being able to have greater muzzle velocity with longer, heavier projectiles giving a much great ballistic coefficient. You see velocity and energy maintained over a greater distance.

mjsdwash said:
i cant say for a 16, but my 18" .308 runs 150@2500, (cheap factory Tulammo) 125@28-2900. That's a starting load with H-110. I think I could get a 150 up to about 2750 pretty easily with a different powder.
For contrast, most factory 7.62x39 runs 122gr@2300.
Click to expand...
 
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