Slide release vs. racking the slide back

[earlthegoat2]

Slingshotting the slide will not work on every gun. The slide stop will.

So.....

Lets take the Walther PK380 or any other gun that does not have a slide catch

And start laughing at that logic.
...................................................................................................................................

I over hand rack every time. There is not tiny little lever I have to find or worry about anyother thing with. The only gun I have ever used the slide release on is the P7 and that is because it is just too darn convenient not to.

 

[nalioth]

If finding and tripping a slide stop is a fine motor skill then so is trigger control and sight alignment.

This is why you buy handguns with good pointability.

In a defensive situation, most folks never look at their sights - they aim and fire instinctively.

Shooting defensively isn't relaxed shooting at the gun club, looking for clovers in the 10-ring.

 

[JTQ]

easyg wrote,
I'm just curious, but exactly which guns have you shot that you could not rack the slide but had to use the slide-stop/release.

Not an uncommon problem found on the 1911 boards. Most commonly encountered with a pistol equipped with a recoil buffer and more often than not a Les Baer Comanche (Commanderish size) so equipped. The Comanche has a full length Government sized frame rails while a true Commander size has rails that are just a little shorter.

The whole question probably depends on what pistol you are using. Some pistols, Glocks specifically say to not use the slide lock/release because you may damage the pistol. They recommend to sling shot or over hand or whatever you want to call it. On the other hand the 1911 is designed with a slide release that is even checkered/serrated on the surface to allow you to use it to let the slide forward.

Since Glocks have become so common instructors teach that method since it will work with most anything while the slide stop method will damage the Glock.

 

[9mmepiphany]

posted by Drail
Slingshotting the slide will not work on every gun. The slide stop will.

i'm interested in which guns you've found where slingshotting the slide would not not work in chambering a round? i can think of one where it is not optmial and another where is is not recommended for the first 200 rounds, but never one where it would not work

posted by Mags
Aren't they called slide stops on most guns, not slide releases?

usually yes

posted by TheProf
Would the slingshot method be as equally valid as the overhand method?

depends on how you define valid.

it works on the same principal, but is a bit slower and less sure...plus it requires a working thumb

 

[REAPER4206969]

In a defensive situation, most folks never look at their sights - they aim and fire instinctively.

That is false. At least for the winners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVrB2JYkuP4

 

[larryh1108]

The Kahr PM Series states in the owner's manual that you recharge the gun using the slide release. If anyone here has a Kahr and tried to slingshot or overhand method you can and do get a jam when the bullet nose dives into the feed ramp. It can be done if you do not touch the slide once you release it but many times we "ride" the slide and this almost guarantees a jam. This is a major reason why many people will not own a Kahr pistol. Of course, there are other reasons but this is a major one.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Neither answer is right or wrong, as both methods have their uses. Personally, I operate my handguns under the assumption that I only have one hand available (there are situations where you may not). This means using the slide stop as a release. Some guns (e.g., 1911s and Smith & Wesson metal frames) have slide stops that are located far forward on the frame and are a little more difficult to reach. On these it is advantageous to trip it with your support hand thumb, but to maintain commonality I just turn them in my hand as necessary. The only time I want to hand rack my slide is either when loading the gun or for a stoppage clearance. Some of the arguments against using the slide stop, I just don't buy, like this one:

Releasing a slide lock is a fine motor skill that can become extremely difficult to do under the stress of a dynamic critical incident.

How do you wipe off thumb safeties or pull triggers, then?

 

[Claude Clay]

part # 46 on a colt 1911 is called a 'slide stop'

sling or overhand release for practice
practice using the slide stop as a release enough to be able to do it if the need arises

know that some 8 round mags are so tight that if you top off there may not be enough play for the slide stop to be pushed down--test your magazines and mark them.

 

[Allentown]

My brother was in a special forces unit and trained a bit differently.

For speed: After ejecting a clip (and letting it just fall to the ground) You slam in a loaded magazine and as you are bringing the gun on target....both hands on the gun..(assuming you are right handed) you use the thumb of the LEFT hand to activate the slide release as you are bringing the gun on target.

He can literally be shooting again within less than .05 seconds after inserting the magazine.

Its the methond i practice with ALWAYS.

It is also the method i have observed some of the SWAT using...its VERY fast.

As far as pointablity..again.. Something different he trained me from his special forces training..in CCQ, you do use the sights...but you just use the front site only..If they are far enough away or in a situation where you have TIME to aim..then you use the rear sites. Or if you are lucky..you might employ a crimson trace which would allow you to focus less on the weapona and more on the situational awareness while still being able to put rounds on target.

Lastly, the reason why the hit ratio is so horrible IN LEO relates shootings is because, on average, LEOs are some of THE WORST shooters and gun handlers that actually carry a gun. while i am sure there are some terrifyingly bad people who CCW... More often than not..the average CCW shoots and practices the manual of arms MORE than a LEO has to.

For illustration about LEOs being so HORRIBlE at operating their weapon under stress...compare thier hit and miss ratios to SWAT, Secret Service, or any special forces unit. They are bad because they dont practice, are trained to the MINIMUM standard and often are just regular folks like ex school teachers etc who went to police academy did their training and now work as LEOs.

Most of them were not handed .22s when they were 11 and have shot all of their lives like many of us (or at least me and all my brothers..im assuming many of you as well) have.

 

[valorius]

I use the slide release lever so that i can execute one handed mag changes. Also, if one is incapacitated in the use of one arm, one does not have to go away from their training in a moment of intense pressure.

 

[ThePunisher'sArmory]

I always rack the slide as my small thumbs canot reach the slide release on some of my pistolas. I'm lucky I guess but all my autos allow me to "slingshot" or rack the slide after lock back and mag change.

 

[Big Mike]

I typically 1. Slingshot or 2. Handover, and when I had my Beretta 92, 3. Slide release.

 

[Chevyguy85]

when i reload a couple of my guns the slamming home of the magazine releases the slide for me otherwise I use the slide release. Every now and then I'll use the slingshot method if I'm doing stuff slow and methodical

 

[9mmepiphany]

posted by larryh1108
The Kahr PM Series states in the owner's manual that you recharge the gun using the slide release. If anyone here has a Kahr and tried to slingshot or overhand method you can and do get a jam when the bullet nose dives into the feed ramp. It can be done if you do not touch the slide once you release it but many times we "ride" the slide and this almost guarantees a jam

that was one of the guns i referred to in my post...it's because Kahrs are very tight when they come from the factory and need the 200 round break in. i don't have a problem using the overhand release after the break in period.

why would you ride the slide of any gun when chambering a round...that will just about cause a jam with any gun

 

[9mmepiphany]

posted by Big Mike
when I had my Beretta 92, 3. Slide release.

yup that's the other one...slide release is my exception to the overhand release on the Beretta

 

[hardworker]

If you're reloading a gun after firing it won't the slide already be locked open? In order to rack the slide you're going to have to hit the slide release at some point.

 

[Claude Clay]

...or just learn to count and do your mag change before you shoot the gun dry

the younger you are when you learn to do this the better chance you will be able to do it sub-consciously.
1 or 2 in a 100 can do it. try it for 3 months. load 9, shoot to 8, drop the mag and re-load.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

With a fresh loaded magazine in a gun that has been locked open by the empty magazine engaging the slide release, pulling the slide back will automatically drop the slide release without hitting it.

Sometimes pulling the slide back and releasing it gives more positive chambering than dropping the slide with the slide release.

 

[GLOOB]

Whichever one you like better. I mostly overhand. But I realize it's largely because I'm anal about possibly wearing down the slide stop catch/notch interface. Every long once in awhile I'll use the slide release, just because face it - it's fun to use.

 

[smince]

What if one hand is hurt or restrained? What if you are in an awkward position and need that hand to support your body weight?

Right. There are other ways to operate the slide besides using your off-hand.

If your other hand is out of action, you are going to have a bit of a problem inserting a new magazine in the first place.

There are workable methods for this, too.

 

[duns]

You might want to check out this earlier thread on the same issue (164 replies):
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=508540

 

[orionengnr]

I will not own (keep) a pistol that will not work both ways. Examples:

My first (used) Ruger MkII would not chamber a round using the bolt release. On the various fora, I read "that's just the way they are; deal with it". Then I bought a second which would...so much for that theory. A fresh spring and some careful cleaning and now both work correctly. I clean each one after each range trip, but a detail cleaning has not become necessay in three years of weekly use.

My (used) Les Baer Comanche's slide would not move rearward sufficiently to dis-engage the slide stop (search "Comanche design defect?" on 1911 forum). Apparently, it is a result of Les Baer using a GM frame with a Commander slide, and the results are well-documented. A good local gunsmith resolved that issue for me.

I prefer to use the slide release. If that doesn't work, I'll do an overhand. However, if the gun won't work both ways, something is wrong.

Use whichever is more natural to you.

 

[Guns and more]

It depends on the gun.
Kahr recommends you use the slide release. It's because their recoil spring is so darn stiff, it would be easy to limp wrist it.
On the other end of the spectrum, my Sig 238 is easy to rack.
If the slide release is perfectly located (H&K P-30) I'll use the slide release, if not I'll rack it.

Someone had a good point. Do it the same way every time. Develop motor skill.

 

[Mikhail Weiss]

Slide release vs. racking the slide back

Is there a “proper” way?

Current SOP is hand-over-slide. This is the fail-safe because it can be used to perform other functions, too. (For instance, you use this same movement to clear malfunctions.) The other alleged virtue of the hand-over-slide KISS methodology is that learning to do things one way means you won't debate which slide-racking method to use when time is critical. I think that argument is silly, but others do not. Thus the primary virtue of HOS is versatility. You can load that way, unload, and clear malfunctions.

Using the slide stop to reload is faster, but only if the slide is already locked open. Thus this operation does only one thing. It drops the slide.

Slingshotting the slide is possessed of its own virtues, too (at least if you're an Israeli commando, something I point out only half in jest), but it's not a method I use much at all and in fact practice little.

The question, then, may not be so much which is “proper,” but which is proper under what circumstances.

When pursuing peak reloading speed, I use the slide lock lever.

When initially loading a pistol, or clearing a malfunction, I use HOS.

My goal is to be versatile and to flow smoothly from one technique to the next, whether it's reloading as conditions and equipment dictate, or transitioning from one weapon to another.

 

[jl1966]

My training has been to use the overhand method. Gross motor skill, better grip with bloody, wet, injured or weakened hand. If needed to be done one handed, hook sights on pocket, belt, shoe, whatever, and rack that way. Also, overhand better facilitates keeping weapon pointed in direction of threat.