Smith and Wesson model 10 w,/bull barrel.

[Red Cent]

Are those Rogers Combat Grips on your Model 10? They look a lot like the ones I have for a J frame S&W. Very comfortable and ergonomic to use.


Yep. Takes me back quite a few years. Not a finger groove fan except for these.



That's a model 10 or a 13? The 13 was the model in .357, am I correct?



Model 10 here. Special run for a LE agency.


Can't beat a model 10 and with a heavy barrel. If one is lucky, one might find a 10-6 4 inch heavy barrel chambered in 357 magnum. Been looking for one for years.
Howard


Seems the fellows over on the S&W forum thinks they are not special (price).

 

[Gun Master]

Got a S&W Model 10 4" bull on the table next to my bed.
That's what I'll be reaching for first, on the way to my 12 ga. pump in the corner.

 

[bannockburn]

Red Cent

Thanks for the confirmation. Saw the Roger grips for the K frame when I bought the J frame set but never got around to getting a pair for my Model 10. Like you I'm not a fan of the finger groove style of grips but these always felt perfect in my hand.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

If the K frame was changed to accommodate 357 Magnum, when did that occur? I refer only to the length of the cylinder window in the frame and stretching of other components.

Howdy

I love questions like this.

I got out my calipers and several K frame Smiths.

From what I can determine, the cylinder widow was not changed at all to accommodate the 357 Magnum cartridge in a K frame revolver.

I measured 3 357 Mag K frames; a Model 19-3 I bought new in 1975, a model 13-2 probably made around 1979, and a Model 65-3 probably made around 1982. The cylinder window on all three was pretty much the same, given manufacturing tolerances. 1.815, 1.810, and 1.814, respectively.

Then I grabbed a few 38s. A Model 10-5 from 1968, a 38 M&P from 1938, another 38 M&P from 1939, and a 38 M&P Target model from 1917. Frame windows ran 1.810, 1.818, 1.818, and 1.817, respectively.

So a high of 1.818 and a low of 1.810. That would easily fit into a tolerance window for any manufacturing outfit, particularly seeing as the time spread is 100 years. I could have grabbed a few more 38s, but I thought that was a pretty representative sample.

But cylinder dimensions did change for the 357. The length of the cylinder for the Model 65-3 was 1.627. Remember that number. The length of the cylinders on the Model 19-3 and 13-2 was 1.672 and 1.674, respectively.

HOWEVER...........The Model 19 and the Model 13 have counterbored chambers to cover the rims of the cartridges, the Model 65-3 does not. The counterbores for the Model 19 and 13 are .045 and .043 deep, respectively. If you subtract the counterbore depths from the lengths of the cylinders of these two revolvers, you get 1.627 and 1.631. Very close to the 1.627 of the Model 65.

Visually, it is obvious there is less space between the front face of the cylinders and the frame with the 357 Mag K frames. I did not measure it, but it is obvious. That's how the longer cylinders were stuffed into frame windows the same size.

P.S. Forgot to mention, cylinder lengths for all the 38s were between 1.555 and 1.564. Most were around 1.564, the 1.555 was the old 38 M&P Target.

Couldn't resist. Here is my sample of guns for my cylinder and cylinder window measurements.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

If I'm not mistaken, S&W made a few M10's in 357mag before they decided to start branding them as M13's

Yes.

According to SCSW, in 1972 several thousand Model 10s were chambered for the 357 Magnum cartridge and sold to the New York State Police. They had 4" heavy barrels. Sandblasted blue finish, slightly flattened top strap. This was a predecessor to the Model 13. They had 1.67 long cylinders with counterbored chambers.

Hmmmmmmm.....familiar looking dimensions.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Those guns were designed for open carry by law enforcement, military, and security personnel and are not very practical for concealed carry. Without at least windage adjustment they are not great range guns either.

I beg to differ.

I love knocking over tin cans at the 50 yard berm with all sorts of 38s. Adjustable sights and fixed sights. As I have stated in another thread, I never readjust the sights on a revolver once I have zeroed it in at about 10 yards. All you have to do with a fixed sight revolver to hit tin cans at 50 yards is allow for the bullet drop. That can be figured out in just a couple of shots. Then you can kick cans around all afternoon. Strange as it may seem, I never have to allow for windage with a fixed sighted Smith and Wesson revolver. They are always right on at just about any distance. In fact, most of the time when I buy a used revolver with adjustable sights, I readjust for windage because so many guys have the sights set to make up for the fact that they are pulling their bullets to the left.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Not really a fan of bull barrelled Model 10s.

I only own two, and they both have what are sometimes referred to as 'pencil' barrels. I just like them better.

I have quite a few 38 M&Ps, going back 100 years. I don't think bull barrels were even an option with them.

I did pick up this nice Model 13-2 a few years ago, but it is not a Model 10.

 

[bannockburn]

Driftwood

Appreciate your knowledge and insight into all things S&W! Keep up the great work!

 

[RealGun]

I beg to differ.

I love knocking over tin cans at the 50 yard berm with all sorts of 38s. Adjustable sights and fixed sights. As I have stated in another thread, I never readjust the sights on a revolver once I have zeroed it in at about 10 yards. All you have to do with a fixed sight revolver to hit tin cans at 50 yards is allow for the bullet drop. That can be figured out in just a couple of shots. Then you can kick cans around all afternoon. Strange as it may seem, I never have to allow for windage with a fixed sighted Smith and Wesson revolver. They are always right on at just about any distance. In fact, most of the time when I buy a used revolver with adjustable sights, I readjust for windage because so many guys have the sights set to make up for the fact that they are pulling their bullets to the left.

Or they are left-eye-dominant right handers and would prefer to adjust windage rather than get in odd positions to shoot accurately. Those who shoot light-for-caliber bullets might also want to raise the rear sight a notch to preserve a familiar sight picture. I should have qualified my pronouncement.

As for concealed carry, those guns intended for such have round butt grip frames.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I am a left eye dominant right handed shooter.

When I shoot Trap I close my left eye.

When I shoot Cowboy I shoot one handed and close my left eye.

When I am at the range, just fooling around I shoot two handed and allow the gun to come up in front of my left eye.

Nothing odd about it.

 

[RealGun]

I am a left eye dominant right handed shooter.

When I shoot Trap I close my left eye.

When I shoot Cowboy I shoot one handed and close my left eye.

When I am at the range, just fooling around I shoot two handed and allow the gun to come up in front of my left eye.

Nothing odd about it.

Sorry, but there is a real sight alignment issue shooting right handed and sighting with the left eye.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I don't think you understood what I said. If you did, we will just have to agree to disagree.

I am a right handed shooter. I discovered through Trap shooting many years ago that I am left eye dominant. This is a result of many years of close up, fine detail work and closing one eye, my right eye. I would close the right eye because the left eye has better vision. Had no idea I was changing my eye dominance, I had never heard of such a thing.

Anyway, on the Trap field I discovered that when keeping both eyes open my dominant left eye would try to take over, resulting in a view down the side of the barrel. Not conducive to hitting flying targets. There was no way I was going to try to learn to shoot left handed, much too old to train this old dog. I tried all the known tricks, tape over the left lens on my glasses and all that stuff. Finally I just closed my left eye and my scores went up because now I could see down the barrel without my left eye trying to take over.

When I shoot Cowboy I shoot the old fashioned way, one handed, standing sideways to the target. The gun is in my right hand and I bring it up in front of my right eye and close the left. No problem.

When I am fooling around at the range, plinking at soup cans on the berm, I shoot two handed, facing straight on to the target. The gun naturally finds its way in front of my dominant left eye. All I have to do is cock my head a little bit to bring the gun up to my left eye. I am so used to doing it that it is completely natural and I don't even realize I doing it.

No big deal, at least not for me.

 

[RealGun]

I don't think you understood what I said. If you did, we will just have to agree to disagree.

I am a right handed shooter. I discovered through Trap shooting many years ago that I am left eye dominant. This is a result of many years of close up, fine detail work and closing one eye, my right eye. I would close the right eye because the left eye has better vision. Had no idea I was changing my eye dominance, I had never heard of such a thing.

Anyway, on the Trap field I discovered that when keeping both eyes open my dominant left eye would try to take over, resulting in a view down the side of the barrel. Not conducive to hitting flying targets. There was no way I was going to try to learn to shoot left handed, much too old to train this old dog. I tried all the known tricks, tape over the left lens on my glasses and all that stuff. Finally I just closed my left eye and my scores went up because now I could see down the barrel without my left eye trying to take over.

When I shoot Cowboy I shoot the old fashioned way, one handed, standing sideways to the target. The gun is in my right hand and I bring it up in front of my right eye and close the left. No problem.

When I am fooling around at the range, plinking at soup cans on the berm, I shoot two handed, facing straight on to the target. The gun naturally finds its way in front of my dominant left eye. All I have to do is cock my head a little bit to bring the gun up to my left eye. I am so used to doing it that it is completely natural and I don't even realize I doing it.

No big deal, at least not for me.

Cocking your head is exactly what I was referring to, the degree varying by stance, something that could be controlled by windage adjustment to the right. I agree about head position but just prefer to have adjustable sights.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Sigh.

My left eye sees better than my right eye, and it is the dominant eye. My right eye does not focus as well. When shooting facing forward with two eyes, I need to put the sights in front of my left eye. How in the world is an adjustable sight going to make that better? I still need to put the gun in front of my dominant eye. I'm not talking about pushing the bullet impact to one side or the other, I'm talking about being able to see the sights and the target.

 

[RealGun]

Sigh.

My left eye sees better than my right eye, and it is the dominant eye. My right eye does not focus as well. When shooting facing forward with two eyes, I need to put the sights in front of my left eye. How in the world is an adjustable sight going to make that better? I still need to put the gun in front of my dominant eye. I'm not talking about pushing the bullet impact to one side or the other, I'm talking about being able to see the sights and the target.

Misalignment with the sights creates parallax, causing movement of the front sight to the left. When you shoot two handed by your description, you are probably aligning to the left and triggering with your right, effectively shooting left handed. I will have to think about that next time at the range, but my issues with left eye dominant, right handed shooting are not eccentric or unheard of from others.

Actually, I have new synthetic lenses in both eyes and could relearn to shoot, although I still have macular degeneration in the right eye, enough to still favor the left. Rifle is still right eye.

 

[Monac]

Bo, that's a fine picture of a handsome gun. And the trigger shoe is an interesting addition. I've never had a gun with a wide target trigger.