Sniper Update

[svtruth]

In view of the number of members who reported having been lied to by people posing as snipers or ex-snipers, I did a little digging. Today, while cutting up venison for the club's upcoming game dinner, I spoke to another member who has known the guy since he was a kid. He confirmed that he is, indeed, a sniper, and joined up right out of high school.
Posted as new thread so you don't have to wade through 80+ posts on the other thread.

 

[pbhome71]

FYI, this is the thread that "svtruth" refered to:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=262518

 

[svtruth]

Yes

I'm just too technologically illiterate to know how to post a link.
Thanks for doing it.

 

[cheygriz]

A fairly good test, not always accurate, but fair:

If he brags about it- NO WAY!

If you ask him his MOS, and he says sniper, probably was one, unless he starts bragging about it. Probably never saw action.

If he refuses to talks about it, quietly walks off or or changes the subject, a good chance he was one, and saw action.

 

[TexasRifleman]

If he refuses to talks about it, quietly walks off or or changes the subject, a good chance he was one, and saw action.

I know that guy..... friend of my dad's. I confronted him with a photo taken in country once and he still denied it. Years spent denying it.

Now, he was good enough family friend that he didn't punch a young kid for bringing it up repeatedly thank goodness.

Finally after about 10 years of listening to me question him he asked me one night if I'd like to hear the whole story.

I heard it and wished I'd never brought it up.

 

[snowtigger]

I had an uncle. He died a couple years ago, after working in a hardwood flooring mill all his life. He raised two girls. He was also the first private pilot I ever knew, way back in the 50's.
After he died, his obituary said he was one of the first men up Omaha beach. As far as I know, he never said anything about it to anyone...

 

[agd1953]

I am not a sniper, will not claim to be a sniper, but my nephew is in sniper school with the marines. He is currently in Japan and he is gonna kick ass and take names.

 

[possum]

ask them for their full mos and that will tell you right there. i can't remember what the designator is for sniper. maybe b4 i think maybe lebben- b could help us out here.

for example, i am an 11b20 which means i am a sgt in the infantry, if there are other letters after the 20 for example than he has futher trainning and designators.

for example i think airborne is a "p" iirc so if i was airborne my mos would be
11b20p

if i was a sniper it would be 11b20b4

etc.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I found out something about my 81 year old Uncle the other day. As most of you know the men who fought in WWII rarely talk about the war if ever. We were having coffee and I don't remember how it came up but he told me he has 5 (that's FIVE) Battle Stars. I also found out from other relatives he was very highly decorated for Valor. Of course, he won't talk about it. I know the man for 50 years and I only now find out about his Service. What a great generation of Americans!!

 

[mrmeval]

The problem with the old vets not talking about it is their stories die with them.

 

[Walkalong]

My father never talked about his days in real action. He was not proud of killing people, even for the good side. He had remorse for killing. For most, that is a burden they carry alone, quietly, for the rest of their days.

 

[critter]

I watched a couple of episodes of 'dogfights' last night( Korea & WWII-Guadalcanal). In two cases, pilots reported being close enough to see the faces and eyes of opposing pilots they shot down and/or killed. They still see those faces!

I have heard that snipers (the REAL ones) have the same problem in that they can really see the faces and even eyes of those they shoot. Not a settling thing to have to live with for the rest of ones life.

Maybe (just maybe as I do not know for sure) folks like B52 pilots who drop bombs from 30,000 ft (and perhaps kill hundreds) have an easier time as they do not see the individuals they kill.

In either case, I salute all those who have been put into such a position that they have to do such things AND I realize that, but for them, we would NOT have the freedoms we have today!

 

[Robert Hairless]

Maybe worth reading Flags of Our Fathers written by the son of Bradley, one of the Iwo Jima flag raisers. After he returned to civilian life, Bradley would not discuss his experiences. "The real heroes are those who died," he would say.

Every member of my own family who fought in WW II behaved the same way. They did what was needed, it is over, and they lived the rest of their lives in the present and future. Towards the end of their lives each of them, with one exception, spontaneously began to talk about it with me. I still get tears in my eyes about them from time to time. (It's happening now.) Just to have have known such people is a gift in itself. I don't think any of them in my family ever knew how I felt about them. Stupid of me.

At least I was smart enough to meet briefly some surviving members of the Doolittle Raiders, a couple of the Tuskeegee Airmen, and others. All I have been able to do is say "Thank you." So little really. Better than nothing. By accident I came across my father-in-law's dog tags last night. Somehow they got mixed in with mine. I separated them out and put them with his stuff. They don't belong together and I don't want my children to lump them together in their minds. Not something to talk about.

 

[thumper723]

Bringing up the aviators has a good point.

For the record, I was a Navy Helo pilot. I now am re training to fly CODs.

I have friends who have been on the ground day in day out, other who fly assault support (CH-46s mostly), FA-18 pilots, and Cargo or AEW pilots.

The majority of us are so detached from what we are doing (distance, not mentally) that it is probably easier for the Hornet pilot lobbing LGBs in for CAS to talk about what he's doing/done. Just the whole removed from the situation. Also, in my line of work, there are not a lot of guys getting wounded. It tends to be very cut & dry, dead or alive. Not much you can do when a RPG hits your gas tank or main rotor. Unlike our brethren on the ground, where not only dying, but getting seriously messed up is a possibility.

I'm not a shrink, but I think the being slightly removed from the situation helps somehow. Even though the end result is often the same. In ASW, if we launched a torp, it was knowing we were sending 30-250 men to a horrible death. But we never would see them. OTOH, if we did not get them before they got in range of a CV or Small boy, 300-5000 of OUR guys were going to have a very bad day.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Does anyone thing today's generation, being more desensitized to violence and whatnot due to media, movies, video games, etc...think in general they might be more willing to talk about experiences or cope with them in a more successful manner than the older generations that fought in WWII or even Vietnam? It doesn't seem like (at least to me) we still have that "won't talk about it ever" mentality with newer vets...but maybe it's too early to tell. At the very least, warfare has changed and we'll probably never have D-Day type landings ever again.

 

[Firethorn]

Cesiumsponge, I'd actually tend to say no for the vast majority of our people. Oddly enough, most of the really nasty type tend to not spend as much time playing the games or watching violent media as the average.

Violence in our society, on average, has been decreasing. Seeing 'Predator', or even war movies is different from real combat.

Finally, to counterbalance it, I'd point out that WWII carried out far more in the way of dehumanizing propaganda than we've ever thought to. It might not have been interactive, but it was everywhere.

 

[Agent 006 &7/8]

A friend of mine had mentioned that he had been a sniper in his twenties. Except for one late night at my house and about half a bottle of Bourbon, he never went beyond that simple statement. On that one occurance he cried about the men that he had killed doing his duty and he did mention still seeing the eyes. I never doubted his statement of being a sniper after watching him shoot. 1000 yards, Winchester 70 target rifle, .308 and he never put one out of the 9 ring, almost all inside the 10 and maybe 65% inside the X ring.

 

[Sgt Stevo]

I meet possers all the time. I just ignore most bar room sniper, Sf guys.....It only bothers me if they disrespect the straight legs like me.

I was in OEF..and other places......Mostly I did not much. But I was there.

I was not a Ranger or anything special.........But I took good care of the kids that worked for me......

I only talk about bad things to other vets....Mostly at the Va group...But not much anymore.

I am disabled, I have lots of scars.......I have had many operations. SVEN, the moderater had to drive me to the range.and prop me up with .22....pistols. And help me out of the car.......I am proud... But it hurts most days.....I take lots of pills.. I dont sleep well.

I am not being a sissy. But many, many, others are worse. And the lyers disrespect them........Stevo..

 

[AndyC]

The telling of one's experiences is best shared with others who can relate to the emotions involved, whereas non-vets are only interested in the number of shots fired, people killed - all the superfluous stuff.

"Whoa, dude, that was so, like, awesome - like, how many....?"

Please. It makes me feel like a freak whose only sole purpose in life (in their eyes) is to feed their ghoulish desire to hear about gore. It's like trying to discuss physics with the average self-absorbed, airheaded valley-girl - the lights are on and the dog is nodding but nobody's really home.

 

[Medusa]

YEah, the old ones don't talk much. One guy was a neighbour to my Mom, really nice guy, gentle. When he died last year it turned out he was a German army vet, highly decorated, german born and highly trained officer. Some people from war vets organization (remembering all those dead, regardless the nation) arranged a military funeral.

Sad is that the stories die with the people, I think these stories shoulnd't die. Of course, it is questionable how much into details you REALLY want to go, but nonetheless. I'd say these stories are needed as an examples of duty and courage, instead of all those crap shown on TV or cinema screen.

The difference of whole sniper profession is having time to pick out individual target, watch him/her, see how much he resembles your Uncle Ralph or Aunt Annie, for example. And especially see the eyes. After shooting one you're never the same guy again. Another difference - it's easy to shoot in self-defence, as a soldier, but most of the time sniper targets are not immediate threats, so it's more like allowed executions.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Snipers are not holier than thou. I never put them on a pedestal, that goes with anyone in the service. IMHO it's the naive that does. Special forces this, Ranger that, seal this and sniper that. If you want to part of the crowd that wants to listen in to those who claim to be sniper joe..
I will spot the fakes in a heartbeat and call him on it.

 

[Onmilo]

I was stationed at Fort Bragg.
Guys who were part of any of the hot shot organizations such as Special Forces, Delta, Snipers or the like would carry little tokens called 'challenge coins'.
If a trooper was in a bar yapping off about he was SF a SEAL or whatever and one of the real operators dropped one of those tokens on the bar, the loudmouth had better have one of those tokens to put on top of the challenge.
God could only help the gent if he didn't.

 

[busy_squirrel]

Cesium Sponge - I would guess that todays generation is more willing to jump into a fight, but less likely to finish it. I don't think they tend to have the same stomach for getting the job done.

Seems to me that experienced folks avoid the fight, but once the switch is flipped, they have no hesitation in finishing it, no matter what that requires.

Too many of my young friends glorify violence and hope to see some, but when they actually see gore they freeze up all slack-jawed.

 

[XD Fan]

Cesium Sponge - I would guess that todays generation is more willing to jump into a fight, but less likely to finish it. I don't think they tend to have the same stomach for getting the job done.

Seems to me that experienced folks avoid the fight, but once the switch is flipped, they have no hesitation in finishing it, no matter what that requires.

Too many of my young friends glorify violence and hope to see some, but when they actually see gore they freeze up all slack-jawed.

Squirrel,

I know what you mean about a lot of kids I see, and yet, we have way over 100,000 members of this generation putting up a valiant fight in Iraq, and many thousands more doing it in Afghanastan (sp?). If we have the political will to let them, I am confident they will finish the fight admirably. I think maybe when you train and equip them right, most generations will go the distance. JMHO

 

[goColt]

My dad was a Green Beret, small arms and communications specialist if I remember correctly. He was stationed in Korea during Vietnam. From what I remember him saying there were still some operations going on in Korea during Vietnam. Hell, there probably still is today.

He never really said anything about it, though he did "show" me a choke-hold for about a second and a half that earned him and even greater respect from me than I had beforehand.

He did give me his Gerber though, funny it didn't look like Rambo's knife, and a couple pins and patches with their creed: "De Oppresso Liber". I really cherish them more that they are a gifts from my dad than anything else.

He recently told me that the guy that was a Green Beret is long gone now. I think he is proud of his service but it is ancient history for him now. He retired from the AF Reserves recently. He was military all his life.