So Do Nickel Plated Cases Scratch Dies Or Not?

[jmorris]

I don't remember every trying to anneal nickled rifle cases, maybe someone can share their experience.

I set my machine up with brass cases then let the nickel ones through.

I suppose even plain clean brass will cause erosion of dies, even carbide ones. I called Dillon when my first carbide 223 die had worn out, they asked me how many cases I had sized with it and I told them 120k. They said that was about usual life for their bottle neck carbide rifle dies. FWIW They are not covered by the no bs warranty.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Here is one. Some batches are quite prone to this.
View attachment 1119572

Excellent! Thank you!

I’ve never seen one like this of any brand only wearing out/getting dull. What brand headstamp?

 

[CQB45ACP]

I remember this being a hot point of contention, decades ago. Even here on THR, I remember any mention of nickeled cases triggering an outpouring of such declarations.

My argument has always been this:

Someone scratches a die with brass cases - "Well that was dumb. I need to clean my cases better."

Someone scratches a die with nickel cases - "OMG!!! I gotta log on and tell everyone how bad nickel cases are!!!"

I wrecked a couple of dies early in my career, using brass cases that I didn't clean adequately. Since I started cleaning adequately, I haven't wrecked any dies, and I prefer nickel in general. The only downsides I have found is that nickel is more expensive, and some batches will fail very early on. (My experience has been that those lots which don't fail early will go on to last about as well as unplated versions. My experience is contradicted by that of some other folks, however.)

Funny. Lee says overly clean cases cause the problems, not dirty ones (in terms of carbide dies).

I deprime/resize my cases with Lee die BEFORE any cleaning. Now, I only shoot at indoor ranges (and these are either 9mm or 45ACP cases) so they’re not nearly as dirty as those from an old BLM bottom of an old quarry/strip mine range.

Then, I expand/prime with a Lee die once they are sparkling clean from wet tumbling. No lube either ever.

No problemo at either step.

Maybe not cleaning in advance will conceal early onset of nickel flaking?

 

[Palladan44]

A long time ago flaking nickle on cases was much more of an issue than it has been for a long time, these days most nickle cases don't and the nickle will simply wear off in time if you shoot and tumble them enough with no issues.

Can it happen? Sure, inspect cases and look for it, especially at the case mouth, but most of the time it isn't a problem. I have had .38 Spl cases where the nickle has/had nearly worn off completely.

Yes, especially dry tumbling in media. Amazing how much Nickel wears off pretty quickly.

 

[BBarn]

Excellent! Thank you!

I’ve never seen one like this of any brand only wearing out/getting dull. What brand headstamp?

Winchester.

 

[lightman]

Here is one. Some batches are quite prone to this.
View attachment 1119572

This is typical of what I occasionally see when the nickel flakes off. I've seen it on RP cases, mostly 38 and 357.

 

[MikeInOr]

I use .223 and .308 brass cases for my semiautos. I use Nickle plated .223 and .308 for my bolt action target rifles. The Nickle plating makes them easy to tell apart which is that I consider the best reason to have nickel brass. I have some nickel .223 and .308 with 10 loadings on them (neck sized only) and never had a problem with splitting. At around 10 loadings the primer pockets start to get loose so it is time to replace them.

I also use nickel brass to differentiate special loads in handgun calibers.

I believe the original purpose of nickel was to reduce the corrosion on cartridges carried in leather bandoleers?

 

[.38 Special]

Funny. Lee says overly clean cases cause the problems, not dirty ones (in terms of carbide dies).

I deprime/resize my cases with Lee die BEFORE any cleaning. Now, I only shoot at indoor ranges (and these are either 9mm or 45ACP cases) so they’re not nearly as dirty as those from an old BLM bottom of an old quarry/strip mine range.

Then, I expand/prime with a Lee die once they are sparkling clean from wet tumbling. No lube either ever.

No problemo at either step.

Maybe not cleaning in advance will conceal early onset of nickel flaking?

Lee actually says clean cases scratch dies? That's astonishing, if true. (I'm not calling you a liar, but something must have been lost in translation.)

 

[CQB45ACP]

Lee actually says clean cases scratch dies? That's astonishing, if true. (I'm not calling you a liar, but something must have been lost in translation.)

No I didn’t say scratches, I said problems. But rather than confusing things even more let me quote from pg 52 of Lee’s second edition:

“Carbide cases usually eliminate the need to lubricate the cases. There are exceptions. If cases are excessively clean, some of the brass will rub off on the carbide. The dirt, soot, oxides and oil on the case keep the case from galling the carbide. None of the foreign matter on the brass is hard enough to damage the carbide die….”

There it is. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[.38 Special]

No I didn’t say scratches, I said problems. But rather than confusing things even more let me quote from pg 52 of Lee’s second edition:

“Carbide cases usually eliminate the need to lubricate the cases. There are exceptions. If cases are excessively clean, some of the brass will rub off on the carbide. The dirt, soot, oxides and oil on the case keep the case from galling the carbide. None of the foreign matter on the brass is hard enough to damage the carbide die….”

There it is. Sorry for the confusion.

Weird. I have a carbide die which will scratch the daylights out of any case run through it, because in my youthful ignorance I ran dirty cases through it. And I've certainly never had any problems running "too clean" cases through anything - though admittedly, I haven't gone completely bonkers on the subject, like some of the wet-tumbling folks I know.

Well, Lee has always marched to their own drummer...

 

[BushMaster-15]

Well if some of our would be resident metallurgist would simply STOP and CONSIDER FACTS for a moment ,it would become PERFECTLY CLEAR WHY Nickel cases or flakes WON'T scratch Tool steel , TiN or Carbide !.
Question WHICH of the metals involved are softer , Tool steel , Nickel or Brass ? . BINGO so what would Nickel flakes scratch or be forced into or embedded in !. .

 

[CQB45ACP]

Well if some of our would be resident metallurgist would simply STOP and CONSIDER FACTS for a moment ,it would become PERFECTLY CLEAR WHY Nickel cases or flakes WON'T scratch Tool steel , TiN or Carbide !.
Question WHICH of the metals involved are softer , Tool steel , Nickel or Brass ? . BINGO so what would Nickel flakes scratch or be forced into or embedded in !. .

Okay so you’ve said twice it can’t happen. What do you believe might be happening? (Not expecting you to be clairvoyant just an educated guess will do)

Maybe galling and then it feels like the die is scratched and cases are being scratched by the galling? Cause something is happening to these folks—they’re not imagining it.

 

[Walkalong]

Who knew this was an emotional topic..........