Just ride it like a 1911 safety. Treat it the same.
So I know I'm an oddball but do any guns, past, present, future, have these features?
- Thread starter IRMacGuyver
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Just ride it like a 1911 safety. Treat it the same.
JR24
Member
Zerodefect
member
I found the M&P safety a bit small, but yeah, thumb safeties should all be 1911 ride able.
I think the CZ 75 safety was OK, but would prefer to swap in the decocker instead. And I've only used the single action CZ's as race guns, but the safety seemed decent.
I think the CZ 75 safety was OK, but would prefer to swap in the decocker instead. And I've only used the single action CZ's as race guns, but the safety seemed decent.
JR24
Member
The difference is why I have 1911s and a SIG SAO and not a CZ. It's really close, but not as instinctive for my hands as a lower on the frame 1911 style where I cant get my firing grip without instinctively disengaging the safety.
The CZ is OK and workable, but takes conscious effort for me to disengage and I've been unwilling to put in the work to retrain my hands when other options exist. The SAO CZ safety is better, but just not quite what I want.
Walt Sherrill
Member
Zerodefect said:
Yeah, I can think of a couple, and there are probably more. The SIG and CZ decocker-equipped models don't even have a frame-mounted safety. And the safety levers on CZs hammer-fired guns (which are also DA/SA) will only work when the hammer is fully cocked. I think the otherwise similar Tanfoglio-based CZ-pattern guns will allow the safety to be used in any mode.
Yep. The safety locks the hammer (not slide) in place on current Tanfo's and most older ones, too. If the safety is applied with the hammer down, then the safety is locked down. If applied with the hammer up/cocked, then it is locked in a cocked position. Take the safety off (down-to-fire, like a 1911) and the hammer is now free to move.
Zerodefect
member
Thanks. I've avoided DA/SA's for so long I wasn't sure.
I knew CZ had a good system, was just unsure of exactly the correct operation. Is it safe to carry the CZ cocked and locked, or something to be avoided? (no thumb break holster, that's too easy)
I knew CZ had a good system, was just unsure of exactly the correct operation. Is it safe to carry the CZ cocked and locked, or something to be avoided? (no thumb break holster, that's too easy)
Walt Sherrill
Member
It is safe to carry a CZ cocked & locked, and that was one of the initial design features of the design back when it was introduced in 1975. The "B" models, which includes everything that's been new since the early 90s or a bit before, having a firing pin block, and that block won't let the firing pin advance unless the trigger is pulled fully to the rear.
The CZ stainless models come with ambidextrous safeties, as does the 85B model (basically the same as a 75B, except that it has ambi-safeties and ambi-slide releases.)
The now-discontinued 85 Combat is an 85B without a firing pin block, but comes with adjustable sights, an extended mag release, allows the mags to drop free, and has and an over-travel adjustable trigger.
SAO CZs come with a slightly different slide, a longer beavertail, adjustable triggers (both for take up and over-travel), and much larger ambidextrous safeties. Versions of those safeties can be mounted on any safety-equipped CZ, and I keep thinking about getting a set for my 85 Combat. Converting a safety-equipped DA/SA CZ is a simple process, and many users do it. Cajun Gun Works and CZ Custom are both good sources.
I've had a bunch of CZs over the years -- got my first one in 1996 -- and still have 3 CZs (an 85 Combat, a P-07, and a CZ P10c), and two CZ-pattern guns: a Sphinx SDP and a custom AT-84s. I like'm all, but also like and have a number of other guns, too.
The CZ stainless models come with ambidextrous safeties, as does the 85B model (basically the same as a 75B, except that it has ambi-safeties and ambi-slide releases.)
The now-discontinued 85 Combat is an 85B without a firing pin block, but comes with adjustable sights, an extended mag release, allows the mags to drop free, and has and an over-travel adjustable trigger.
SAO CZs come with a slightly different slide, a longer beavertail, adjustable triggers (both for take up and over-travel), and much larger ambidextrous safeties. Versions of those safeties can be mounted on any safety-equipped CZ, and I keep thinking about getting a set for my 85 Combat. Converting a safety-equipped DA/SA CZ is a simple process, and many users do it. Cajun Gun Works and CZ Custom are both good sources.
I've had a bunch of CZs over the years -- got my first one in 1996 -- and still have 3 CZs (an 85 Combat, a P-07, and a CZ P10c), and two CZ-pattern guns: a Sphinx SDP and a custom AT-84s. I like'm all, but also like and have a number of other guns, too.
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JR24
Member
Is this true for the P07 as well? It wasnt when I had one, and it's way too small safety was my only real complaint with it, as I bought it to carry cocked and locked.
If it is, i may endeavour to find one at a good price once again (or at least think about it).
cheygriz
member
Just my opinion, but for duty/self defence I would not carry a weapon with any kind of mechanical safety.
I carry striker fired (Glock) of DA/SA with decocker only.
Caution, practice, and a heavy first shot trigger pull are all the safety I feel that I need.
I carry striker fired (Glock) of DA/SA with decocker only.
Caution, practice, and a heavy first shot trigger pull are all the safety I feel that I need.
ontarget
Member
Hey, welcome aboard THR. Go with that Ruger LC9 but get the LC9s. Better trigger and you wont regret it. Great for EDC and very concealable ultra reliable. It would be a great choice.
JR24
Member
Thinking on the OP, the only thing I can come up with that's got a thumb and grip safety with a decocker.
Would be a 1911, double stack (RIA maybe, they make a commander 9mm DS for a reasonable price) and drop in a C&S SFS system. Not a real decocker really, but it's the best I can think of.
A high power would be better, but you lose the grip safety and pick up a mag safety.
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/sfssystem.shtml
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=catshow&ref=SFSkits
Would be a 1911, double stack (RIA maybe, they make a commander 9mm DS for a reasonable price) and drop in a C&S SFS system. Not a real decocker really, but it's the best I can think of.
A high power would be better, but you lose the grip safety and pick up a mag safety.
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/sfssystem.shtml
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=catshow&ref=SFSkits
1KPerDay
Member
Walt Sherrill
Member
zerodefect said:
I see that I mispoke a bit. I was addressing the CZ models based on the original CZ-75 design, but wasn't clear about that. -- while you're talking about the P-07 (and P-09), which is different internally from the 75B-based gun. (The new mechanism is called the Omega design.) About the only difference between the P-07 and P-09 is the slide/grip length. (and related parts). The fire control mechanisms are same for both guns. I don't think the safety levers for the 75B-based guns will work with the Omega system guns.
I don't know of any factory or after-market replacement safety levers for the P-07 (or P-09, but wouldn't be surprised if CZ Custom or Cajun Gun Works develop improved safety levers for the P-07 or P-09 in the next year or so.
(I've been tempted to buy an extra left-side safety lever for my P-07 and see if I can build up the lever with J&B Weld or something similar.)
lysanderxiii
Member
The old SIGs and Astra 80s and 100s don't have a safety, just a de-cocker, if that is what you're asking....
The Astra 90 had a slide safety and a separate de-cocker that are independent of each other, so you can de-cock and then put the safety on, or just leave the safety in 'fire'...
WestKentucky
Member
I’m all for safeties until they are redundant. OP is pushing the limit. Honestly I despise the magazine safeties and the 1 gun I have that had one got it permanently, creatively, failed. I’m on board with the rest.
With that list, I’m thinking it might be the canik that is closest, but it’s an odd layout of controls. I would be looking specifically for a couple of the more rare features and just eliminate things you don’t like from there. If your looking at poly frame for weight savings then you could possibly look at aluminum alloy frames and gain some options. I’m going out on a limb here and saying that the witness pavona seems like it (should) have a few of those features because it’s big brothers do. Realistically, if I’m buying polymer I’m buying XDm, but the Canik and the Witness pistols are tempting.
With that list, I’m thinking it might be the canik that is closest, but it’s an odd layout of controls. I would be looking specifically for a couple of the more rare features and just eliminate things you don’t like from there. If your looking at poly frame for weight savings then you could possibly look at aluminum alloy frames and gain some options. I’m going out on a limb here and saying that the witness pavona seems like it (should) have a few of those features because it’s big brothers do. Realistically, if I’m buying polymer I’m buying XDm, but the Canik and the Witness pistols are tempting.
d'zaster
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Hi Guys
Reading through the replies, i didn't see mentions of the HK-P7 platform. 9mm, grip safety and decocker work in unison and no tools for takedown.
However, it's not polymer, no mag safety, single stack (holds 8), not currently in production, pricey for a clean example.....
OK never mind.....
Reading through the replies, i didn't see mentions of the HK-P7 platform. 9mm, grip safety and decocker work in unison and no tools for takedown.
However, it's not polymer, no mag safety, single stack (holds 8), not currently in production, pricey for a clean example.....
OK never mind.....
earlthegoat2
Member
This sounds like a gun designed for insurance companies.
Why a grip safety? That's not really a common or even a generally desired feature. There's 1911 derivatives, the XD, and the S&W 380 EZ.
How about that 380 EZ? It's carry sized, polymer framed, has a grip safety, some models have a manual safety, and has tool-less takedown.
However, it's the wrong caliber and capacity, and doesn't have a mag safety nor decocker.
These days, they are going for $2-3k! I knew they were expensive, but I didn't know they were that expensive!
How about that 380 EZ? It's carry sized, polymer framed, has a grip safety, some models have a manual safety, and has tool-less takedown.
However, it's the wrong caliber and capacity, and doesn't have a mag safety nor decocker.
These days, they are going for $2-3k! I knew they were expensive, but I didn't know they were that expensive!
Coal Dragger
member
No one makes what you describe because grip safeties are stupid.
John Browning only added one to the 1911 because the US Army insisted on it because the US Army brass were, and remain convinced that PFC Schmuckatelli will have an accident without a ton of redundancy in mechanical safeties. For more proof of this idiocy witness the M9 pistol with a de-cocker/safety.... that should have been a decocker only 92G. Now they’re doing it with the SIG P320 with a manual safety, although a lot of striker fired pistols these days are basically like a cocked SA pistol since the strikers are pre-tensioned so much to have good trigger pulls.
Magazine safeties are pretty much the worst invention ever if you intend to dry fire for training.
Aside from asking for a polymer frame for weight savings, and 9mm which is a very good all around choice for a duty or self defense round; you are asking for a pistol with two of the worst features ever thought up by non shooting administrators responsible for agency/service procurement.
If you’re not willing to train with your pistol to gain proficiency in administrative safety and gun handling tasks you have no business carrying a gun. It sounds as if you’re trying to find hardware solutions for a software problem.
Elkins45
Member
Other than being polymer and not steel it does indeed have a grip and thumb safety. No magazine safety, though. I owned one but traded it for a CZ because I didn't want to carry that much weight.
I suggest the OP think about a CZ P-07. It's identically sized to a Glock 19 but has the added safety feature of a DA/SA trigger. You can switch between a safety or a decocker as you desire, and when holstering it you have the very comforting ability to put your thumb on the hammer. IMO the P-07 (or perhaps the Beretta PX4) is the current pinnacle of handgun design.
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