What gun do I have?

[9mmepiphany]

There was talk at one time of a Ti, this was before S&W introduced Sc to firearms, aftermarket frame for it. I seem to remember that the cost was mind boggling.

The gas system can be placed in a polymer frame as demonstrated by subsequent designs of other manufacturers, both from South Africa. Alex Du Plessis designed what became the Heritage Stealth/Wilson Custom ADP and there was the LIW Vektor СР1

 

[thecarfarmer]

A friend of mine (who carries a G19) bought a P7 at a good price.

I've got to shoot it a few times now; neither my buddy nor myself would consider it a poor choice for EDC. It seems to be a reliable piece, and appears to be a high quality gun.

But, the gun doesn't have a ton of quality holsters readily available, is not conducive to detail stripping, is not light for its ammo capacity, does not carry a whole lot of rounds (his is the single stack), and certainly is NOT cheaply replaced.

But, it is a really slick little gun!


-Bill

 

[kefefs]

In my experience the P7 is the holy grail of defensive pistols among those who have never handled one. Of course I've met plenty of people who own P7s and like them, but they don't have nearly as high opinions of them as those who read about the P7 on the internet and think how something looks on paper directly translates into reality.

 

[Onmilo]

I have owned a P7 for several years. Still do.


I explain the P7 thusly to people,

It carries half as many rounds as a G19 Glock, It is also heavier fully loaded than a fully loaded G19.

And it isn't any smaller than a G19 Glock.

 

[Nom de Forum]

I have owned a P7 for several years. Still do.


I explain the P7 thusly to people,

It carries half as many rounds as a G19 Glock, It is also heavier fully loaded than a fully loaded G19.

And it isn't any smaller than a G19 Glock.

Onmilo,

Yours is probably the most intelligently presented and cogently stated description of the P7s attributes and how they are not particularly desirable for being a CCW or Duty pistol. It can be both but is self-handicapped in either role.

 

[Onmilo]

Nom De Forum,
I also explain that people carry a particular handgun for only one of two reasons,
1. They have to, for whatever reason.
2. They want to.

My logic comes down to this, If you use a gun in a defense shooting, most of the time it will be confiscated for a period of one day to more than a year while the powers that be sort things out.

I feel better surrendering a $400 Glock, of which I have several, than my $800 P7, of which I have one.
That and I can carry the Glock with one magazine if I choose, the P7 would need a spare or two and magazines tend to disappear never to be seen again once surrendered.
I can still get G19 mags for $25 each new
Replacing P7 magazines would set me back around $75 per, IF I can find some...

None of my logic is based on fan club semantics, it is the reality of the real world that needs to be logically thought through if one chooses to pack a defensive firearm.

All that said, I kind of like the P7, it was a decent design from the era it came from but that era also made the gun an issue pistol to mainly select groups of Military and Police personnel and it really was all but unobtanium of the civilian market at that time and when available, it was priced well beyond the means of the average shooter.
One must wonder why those Military and Police groups have now released the guns on the civilian market?
Perhaps because something better came along and selling them off could help fund the purchase of that newer, better option far more economically than turning the guns into scrap metal.

 

[Jim K]

It is my understanding that at one point several (West) German states were considering adopting new handguns for their police. Someone decided that it would be a good idea for the gun to have a fixed barrel, yet fire the 9mm Parabellum.

Out of that "requirement" grew both the H&K P7 and the Steyr GB. Neither the latter nor its licensed copy, the Rogak, lasted long.

The H&K worked better but H&K chose to combine the piston-retardation with a unique "squeeze cocker" mechanism that seems to be either liked or hated, with no middle ground.

But the point I could not understand was how such a relatively large and heavy pistol could be described by so many as "little", "small", or "easily concealed". (See Post #27 for the latest example.) It was almost as though there were two guns called "P7", hence the title of the thread.

Jim

 

[Nom de Forum]

Nom De Forum,
I also explain that people carry a particular handgun for only one of two reasons,
1. They have to, for whatever reason.
2. They want to.

My logic comes down to this, If you use a gun in a defense shooting, most of the time it will be confiscated for a period of one day to more than a year while the powers that be sort things out.

I feel better surrendering a $400 Glock, of which I have several, than my $800 P7, of which I have one.
That and I can carry the Glock with one magazine if I choose, the P7 would need a spare or two and magazines tend to disappear never to be seen again once surrendered.
I can still get G19 mags for $25 each new
Replacing P7 magazines would set me back around $75 per, IF I can find some...

None of my logic is based on fan club semantics, it is the reality of the real world that needs to be logically thought through if one chooses to pack a defensive firearm.

All that said, I kind of like the P7, it was a decent design from the era it came from but that era also made the gun an issue pistol to mainly select groups of Military and Police personnel and it really was all but unobtanium of the civilian market at that time and when available, it was priced well beyond the means of the average shooter.
One must wonder why those Military and Police groups have now released the guns on the civilian market?
Perhaps because something better came along and selling them off could help fund the purchase of that newer, better option far more economically than turning the guns into scrap metal.

Very sound reasoning and accurate analysis.

I like the P7 too, but as a fun gun, not a CCW or Duty gun. I don't know if you saw my earlier posting so I will repeat, I was issued one in the pre-Glock era as a duty gun for 2 years. I think a Beretta 92s, which was available, would have been a better choice. Funny thing is I don't like the Beretta 92s.

 

[Nom de Forum]

It is my understanding that at one point several (West) German states were considering adopting new handguns for their police. Someone decided that it would be a good idea for the gun to have a fixed barrel, yet fire the 9mm Parabellum.

Out of that "requirement" grew both the H&K P7 and the Steyr GB. Neither the latter nor its licensed copy, the Rogak, lasted long.

The H&K worked better but H&K chose to combine the piston-retardation with a unique "squeeze cocker" mechanism that seems to be either liked or hated, with no middle ground.

But the point I could not understand was how such a relatively large and heavy pistol could be described by so many as "little", "small", or "easily concealed". (See Post #27 for the latest example.) It was almost as though there were two guns called "P7", hence the title of the thread.

Jim

The Rogak aka L.E.S. P-18 is my favorite example of a DOA semiauto. I don't mean DAO.

 

[Jim Watson]

I had an early P7, not a PSP but still a heel mag catch gun.
It had a fine light trigger pull and shot accurately but I could not manage its manual of arms with much facility and keep shooting conventional actions too.

It was one of the three acceptable guns in the German police pistol trials of the 1970s. They wanted something better than a PP .32 to deal with the Baader Meinhof Gang and the Red Army Brigade.
I think more departments bought the Sig Sauer P6 than the Walther P5 or H&K P7.
I don't know what they are replacing the ones surplused to the Colonials with.
The H&K P8 USP like the Bundeswehr issues? Glocks?

 

[9mmepiphany]

It is my understanding that at one point several (West) German states were considering adopting new handguns for their police. Someone decided that it would be a good idea for the gun to have a fixed barrel, yet fire the 9mm Parabellum.

Out of that "requirement" grew both the H&K P7 and the Steyr GB. Neither the latter nor its licensed copy, the Rogak, lasted long.

I think you are referring to the German LE pistol trials following the 1972 Olympics incident.

The submitted pistols was the P5(Walther), P6(SIG), and P7(H&K). All were certified as acceptable and different agencies had their choice of which to purchase.

The best known customer for the P7 was GSG-9, their national anti-terrorist unit, with the lessor departments of Bavaria and Lower Saxony being the other customers.

The P5, P6 and P7 were later replaced by the P8 (H&K USP)