So my sporterized mauser is definitely not 8mm...

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Good catch on the recoil pad being an after the fact add-on.

The line at the toe doesn't match the stock line at all.
Whoever made the stock sure didn't put that pad on.

And It appears the stock was not shortened to make up for the recoil pad thickness.

I failed to notice that until you pointed it out.

rc
 
Not a good catch............

I'm 70. When I was 32, around 1975, I had a part time job finishing and refinishing gunstocks for a local stock maker. My father, on one of his rare visits, saw some of the work. Next thing I know he drops off a pre war mod. 70 270 and asks me to take it to the stock maker and cut off the steel butt plate, put on a recoil pad and asked me to refinish it.

Well, I did what my father asked, and I still regret it..............But at least he was happy!!!!
 
It came out to .321 according to my kinda cheap mic.

I'd be thrilled if it had been a 9.3x62 though. One of my dream calibers.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I only brought it up because the case looks blown out and the shoulder moved forward, just like the 9.3.... Maybe it's a 8x62, that would be an interesting combo.
 
I would speculate that rifle was built in the 1950's, before Bishop & Fajen popularized the white line spacers and Monte-Carlo stock appendages. The Mashburn trigger is 1950's for sure! And the iron-sight stock drop, not the later straighter 'classic' scope style stock that came about later in the 60's.


I was thinking about that last night after I logged off, and you beat me to it. I was wondering how it shoulders with that stock and a scope, and was pondering if there are rear sight mounting holes drilled and plugged. That rifle is begging for a vintage receiver peep sight setup.

My money is still on 8mm-06 Improved as the chambering. It's the highest historical probability with the least amount of work needed to have an original barrel chambered like that case shape shows it is.


Willie

.
 
Willie, yes it has holes for a rear sight on the barrel.

And I'm a huge guy with a fat face so it actually shoulders beautifully for me with the old weaver. I love it as is. IL be doing a sulfur chamber cast tonight so IL update later.


Thanks for all the awesome info guys!
 
^^ Excellent. Let us know.

I just went thru this myself with a very high grade German black powder double rifle using a Dreyse system action, beautifully engraved and finished, from about 1875 or so. Casting the chamber, measuring the breech faces, and slugging the bore were all needed to figure out what it was. Ended up in the metric system as a 11.15x50 with a case head identical to .43 Spanish Mauser. Needed to have dies made, then a cast bullet mold done, and then modify .43 Spanish brass by trimming and pushing the shoulder back, then to develop black powder loads.It was WELL worth it. So enjoy your project, these things bring a lot of pleasure to complete.

And have the bbl stamped for the next guy, huh?


Willie

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I had a big long reply going last night and my friggin computer died and disconnected about 90% of the way through. I had three books open and was taking photos of measurements.

Well now I gotta go flying again and try to make some money before the lake freezes.

Anyway, the 8mm/06 has the should back near the original 30-06. But I am not so sure about the 8mm-06 improved..

The base to shoulder length for a 8mm/06 is 1.948 inches.
The base to shoulder length for a 8mm/06 IMPROVED is 2.02 inches
The base top shoulder length for a 7.92x61mm Norwegian Long is 2.063\
The Base to shoulder length of an 8mm GIBBS is 2.13 inches

There is also the little known (in the US) and very powerful 8x63mm Swedish.
These rifles were build in Germany using Nazi marked M98s.
The 8x63mm was the Swedish medium machinegun round and they thought that it might work as a light anti-armour round if fired from a rifle.
So they modified a bunch of m/39 rifles they had bought from the Germans which were originally 7.92x57mm and they also ordered a bunch of new rifles in 8x63mm in what the Swedes called the m/40 rifle. The muzzle blast and recoil was severe for a military rifle. Most of these were later converted to 7.62 Nato and sold to Israel.

The length top shoulder of the 8x63mm Swede is 2.03 inches. The shoulder section is .132 inches long.



There is also a couple European cartridges that were popular as conversions to old 8mm M98s.

The 8x64mmS made by Brenneke and the 8x64mmRWS.
 
But I am not so sure about the 8mm-06 improved..

The 8mm-06 Improved is an 8mm-06 with the shoulder blown WAY forward. Google it. And of course there were 57 varieties of "improved" as well.

Opinion? It's darned unlikely that a 1950's smith would be chambering for exotics. Just the opposite, they were modifying Mausers for cartridges based on the .30-06 because of lack of even basic 7.92x57 brass, never mind "exotics". Taken within that paradigm and it's VERY likely a .30-06 case based wildcat.

But "who knows" and that's half the fun, isn't it.


The *real* question for Float Pilot is: PA-18 or PA-12?
I'm a PA-12 guy.myself. If you're a PA-18 guy, let's fight! :evil:


Best,


Willie

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Ok guys. So my chamber cast matched my formed 06 case perfectly. It's almost an 8mm06 improved but with the shoulder blown a hair farther forward. Here are some measurements. I have a relatively cheap mic but they should be close.

Base to shoulder: 2.1
Length of shoulder: .15
OD near base: .466
OD near shoulder: .442
Length of neck: .238
20140928_181157.jpg

20140928_181218.jpg
 
8mm gibbs seems to be a scarce booger. I can't find any good pictures of it. And only good dimensional drawing I can find is from a website in Spanish.

But all the dimensions match that drawing. The only question I have is that I see it mentioned that the gibbs has a sharp akley type shoulder and mine doesn't seem to. Everything else matches up though. Here Is what iv found on the Gibbs.
8mmGibbs.gif

Screenshot_2014-09-28-21-55-45.png



That bad pic of it next to an 06 sure does look similar to this (mine)




you guys think this may be it? If so anyone have more info on it?
 
So you figured out what it is...an 8mm wildcat from 30-06 brass. You now have a shopping list...8 mm projectiles, 8 mm expander plug, and 8 mm neck sizing dies, custom dies to the chamber casting. Pick a starting point your comfortable with and work up a load. I personally would start with a 30-30 load since you have an unknown caliber, work up quickly until the brass properly seals to the chamber, then slowly to a point where your group tightens up then begins to open up...back up to your best load.
 
Since he has a hair more case capacity than 8mm-06, I think he'd be fine starting with regular low-mid range 8mm-06 loads and working up.... as long as the bore looks good.
 
The base to shoulder length for a 8mm/06 is 1.948 inches.
The base to shoulder length for a 8mm/06 IMPROVED is 2.02 inches
The base top shoulder length for a 7.92x61mm Norwegian Long is 2.063\
The Base to shoulder length of an 8mm GIBBS is 2.13 inches
Click to expand...

According to the Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions page 499.

You make 8mm Gibbs from a 30-06 case, , taper expand the neck to .330 dia, Full Length size in a GIBBS die, Square the case mouth, chamfer and then fire form in a Gibbs chamber.

Case length 2.47inch
case head diameter .470
rim= .473
neck diameter = .351
neck length= .270
shoulder length = 0.70
body angle .252

Loaded length = 3.16
shoulder angle 36.07

It zings a 170 grain bullet at over 3,100 fps.

ALSO::::: You can buy 8mm Gibbs brass from Quality Cartridge and Brass company. It will even be properly marked.
 
Thanks float pilot.

I'm still not 100% here due to that shoulder angle. But it matches the gibbs more closely than anything else iv found. :banghead:
 
Swampcrawler;

I would opine that it's far more likely that what you've got is a variant of the 8mm/06 improved. Probably produced in the 50's by a very competent small smith/machinist who never heard of the Gibbs.

In any case, recognize the SAAMI pressure limits for the ought-6 brass when you're working up loads. If you do you'll get a lot more reloads out of brass that it sounds as though it may be a PIA to make.

You scored a neat one! Congratulations and good luck with that project.

900F
 
Nice looking gun, although whoever finished the wood scrimped on filling the pores. That's a shame, because everything else about the rifle says "good work."

My guess would be 9.3X62 except you said the barrel was 8 mm. If it is, I would guess the 8-'06 sounds about right.

I have made chamber casts the old way -- mix graphite dust with sulphur, melt and pour into a warmed, oiled chamber. Works great -- contracts just a little on cooling so it is easy to drive out but not so much that you can't see what you're dealing with. Plug the barrel with a tight patch before pouring and drive it out with a cleaning rod.
 
"I would opine that it's far more likely that what you've got is a variant of the 8mm/06 improved"


Remember, it's not like there was a SAAMI standard "8mm-06 Improved" reamer that was sold for these chambers. Variations are normal. You can call it whatever you like, it's likely a one of a kind chamber, and naming it really is an irrelevency. How about the 8mm Swampcrawler? Now that's a good name!


You can neck size for this using standard 8mm dies, and you really don't need more than those and a shellholder to reload for this rifle. There's no reason to resize full length, so get some dies and shoot 'er.

Try .30-06 loads to start and then start experimenting. You;'ve got a nice bunch of days ahead working with this. Aren't you glad it's not a mundane caliber that you can buy?





Willie

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Thanks willie! I didn't realize it could be loaded for using the 8mm die for neck sizing.

Main reason for trying so hard to ID it was to get the right dies
 
Backing off an 8x57 die to size only the neck and then expanding it with the expander is all you need to do... You can seat/crimp bullets with an 8x57 seater die set correctly and you're good to go.

Post a question on this in reloading and dozens will chime in.


Willie

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