So who should do it?

[X-Rap]

We've heard who should not represent us in media, I'd like to hear who is standing up and in the fight that pleases the masses appropriately.
Are we waiting for Barbara Streisand to have a change of heart and join us together?
I'd love to hear about some who are in the public eye fighting the good and how many they are reaching.
Also throw in the media outlets that are giving those crusaders an unbiased voice. MSNBC, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS? Who are the commentators and reporters at these networks that are going to carry our message directly or in unbiased coverage.
Perhaps some just fantasize that THR will become the Juggernaut that will carry the day and they will become Grand Moderator or Member Potentate.
I've said it before, there is more at stake than just the 2A and it can't stand alone in what is becoming and ever more degraded culture. When we collectively realize this we will at least be on our way to fixing things.

 

[barnbwt]

Tom Seleck

He's gotta have the second most "trustworthy" voice behind Morgan Freeman

TCB

 

[Sam1911]

I've said it before, there is more at stake than just the 2A and it can't stand alone in what is becoming and ever more degraded culture. When we collectively realize this we will at least be on our way to fixing things.

And yet, when you tie in these other "cultural degradations" that's where "our" movement becomes just as broken up and divergent as any other. And this is a major place where the big name public spectacles run awry.

When you tie gun right in with economics. Or with life/choice. Or with/against gay rights. Or for a more welcoming national mein, or closing the borders. Or for fighting to preserve democracy or for staying out of other nations' business. Or for universal healthcare or in opposition to socialism. Etc. etc. etc...

All you're doing is cutting people out on our core issue. You've either just shut out the gay folks, or kicked those stalwart "marriage defenders" right in the teeth. You've either just turned away the latino voters (and there are LOTS of latino voters, and will be many more each year), or you've alienated (Ha, a pun!) the guys with the rifles and binoculars, who volunteer to sit in the desert and "spot" illegals coming in. You've either tweaked off the baby killers or dumped on the baby savers. And so on.

That's one thing that Wayne and Chris over at the NRA/NRA-ILA have done RIGHT. They don't (almost ever) open their mouths on any issue not DIRECTLY related to guns and RKBA. And that's how it should be.

Searching for some celebrity to come out as a conservative issues champion, including gun rights under that banner, is probably going to be a long, fruitless wait. Them that are conservatives (by whatever definition you care to use), probably are smart enough to know that they really aught to keep their traps shut and go about their business, unless they're looking to enter politics or their careers have flagged and they need to generate some controversy in order to get back into the spotlight.

 

[mydawgg]

No one flag bearer will reach all people. We are to diverse for that. We all wear different clothes, drive diff. cars, listen to diff. music, and have diff. favorite flavor of ice cream. And so it goes that we will prefer diff. messengers.

For me I look for the content of message. It could be a purple one armed lesbian with 3 hooters, don't care as long as she was a constitutionalist and spoke the truth.

Beck reaches millions, nugent has his group ,the NRA 's Colion inner city black guy has his, Dana Loesch has folks she reaches.

So...... a point man or woman? As many as possible. I think.

 

[RBid]

There aren't many easy to find examples of people who know how to properly approach the issue, because the people who repeatedly get the podium are people whose focus is preaching to the choir. Ted Nugent, Wayne LaPierre, etc are people who many gun owners like, but they are not going to win over any fence sitters.

The closest I've seen to someone who speaks for gun rights in a way that may convert those in the middle, is Ben Shapiro. He is generally not offensive to the other side, doesn't fall into traps, and is well educated. He is calm, and presents well thought out points. He is also very good at verbal jujitsu, and has gotten people to fall into traps on camera, as well as taking away power position in a debate. He was brilliant in his first visit to Piers Morgan's show, and calmly took "the kids" and bullying/ talking over people off the table immediately. Piers was disarmed before it really got started. Similarly, when Piers tried to use Sudafed as a comparison, Shapiro chewed that up, as well.

We need more people like him, and fewer like Nugent and LaPierre. Sarah Palin, Nugent, and LaPierre are ridiculous to many middle ground people, because they appear too extreme.

 

[X-Rap]

If Tom Seleck wanted the job I don't doubt that it would be his. He has and is doing his part but he is not one that is out on a soap box.
Sam, the point I'm trying to raise is that so many of the issues you brought up are at their heart eventually going to run contradictory to the kind of originalist constitutional argument that we have to stick with to keep the 2A intact.
I just can't see many public examples that are showing leadership in the areas that you have called out.
Wayne and Chris have the luxury of their positions only because there are others who will carry on a more direct message and draw lines in the sand.
I frankly welcome anyone who will stand up and be outspoken for the 2A I just want to say we need to be wary and watch their behavior when it come time to really make the important choices because if they can't be counted on then we may as well do without them. So far there is but one group that I see that can be counted on almost completely and they are the social conservatives.
For those other groups, I'm glad that there are outlets for those willing to speak up, I just think it is destructive to beat down those who we already have that own big chunks of the media through radio, tv, internet, because until Tom Brokaw and George Stephonopolus get on board we better make the most of what we have.
So long as people like Rush and Glen have an outlet freedom will have a louder stronger voice then if they were silenced or quieted down as some have suggested.

 

[Sam1911]

Wow, not wanting to cross our policy lines here uhoh but you feel social conservatives are good shepards of "strict Constitutionalism?" I'd say that's a risky hope. Closer of the two most prominent options? Probably, in many areas, but if you feel that a strict Constitutionalist approach across the board is going to be how we save gun rights and/or "the nation" I think we're going to need far different spokespersons than almost any we have currently hollering from either side of the radio dial.

 

[RBid]

Again, I think that our problem is that we repeatedly turn to people who appeal to us, meaning essentially "the choir", rather than putting forward people who appeal to "them".

As for MrColionnoir appealing to "the black, inner city audience", I bet you'd be surprised. He has a LOT more general appeal to everybody on the other side than Wayne or Nugent, regardless of skin color or financial status. He's a young, educated (recently passed the bar, btw), middle class, black American, who dresses like many guys of any race around his age.

Actually, I believe that one of our biggest challenges is to change our approach to the debate. It's basically a giant chess match, played out through Public Relations and the media. As such, we need to start anticipating arguments against us, and addressing them before they come up. This requires understanding our opponent, both in terms of how they play the game, and in terms of what their values are.

This plays out when you look at the author of "Gun Guys". He looks and speaks like "them", despite being one of us. Consequently, he has had a lot of interviews with their media, and has had a chance to speak to the issue in a non-hostile way. As a result, he has a better chance of being heard. That, my friends, is a well played game.

 

[SuperNaut]

We don't need a spokesperson. We are stronger as a true grassroots Vox Populi. The desire of some to diffuse our power by having someone "speak for us" is baffling to me.

You want to say something? Say it.

 

[X-Rap]

Again, there is plenty of who can't. The real question then is who can?. I have just as much trouble trying to believe there is some great moderate out there who can put a face on the 2A and not compromise it away any further than it already is.
So much is said about the extreme position of the NRA and it's leadership and members that I can't help believe there can be any agreement with 2A groups like GOA who makes a living out of calling the NRA compromisers.
So who should be the voices of gun owners and what positions should they take?
I have a hard time putting an I'm the NRA face on a 420 supporter or an illegal alien.
I also have a hard time abandoning my faith and the path it has lit for me.
Who then are the shepherds of strict Constitutionalism?

 

[X-Rap]

[QUOTEWe don't need a spokesperson. We are stronger as a true grassroots Vox Populi. The desire of some to diffuse our power by having someone "speak for us" is baffling to me.

You want to say something? Say it.][/QUOTE]


We "say it" here and who cares?
Do you think we need no organization or platform that conveys our message either?
An individual spokesman is not what I am implying, I agree we need many who speak as one and can appeal to many but if some of those in the group are there to compromise and negotiate more of our freedom I say leave them out and invigorate those who are true to the cause.
If there are friends of the 2A that have huge voices and get much attention how is that a bad thing if they speak with honesty and commitment. They are not necessarily spokesman but they are certainly messengers and willingly give a microphone to further our cause, name one in the MSM who will do that?

 

[Sam1911]

I don't know of any, besides a few politicians who come closer than almost anyone in the media. Even our most Conservative SCOTUS justices are not strict constructionists.

Few folks could even imagine a US which truly strictly adhered to the Constitution. (...or are we going to go back to focusing just on our one favorite clause of it?)

 

[SuperNaut]

We "say it" here and who cares?

No one. You need to focus your efforts elsewhere.

Do you think we need no organization or platform that conveys our message either?
An individual spokesman is not what I am implying, I agree we need many who speak as one and can appeal to many but if some of those in the group are there to compromise and negotiate more of our freedom I say leave them out and invigorate those who are true to the cause.
If there are friends of the 2A that have huge voices and get much attention how is that a bad thing if they speak with honesty and commitment. They are not necessarily spokesman but they are certainly messengers and willingly give a microphone to further our cause, name one in the MSM who will do that?

Your entire post is weird to me. Especially after the failure of the AWB and the Toomey-Manchin bill. Multiple news reports stated that the greatest pressure on our representatives was the overwhelming response from the electorate against these bills. Citing letter campaigns where our side was 10:1 in letter writing, phone calls, and petitioning.

We did that, not some talking head. If there are spokspersons out there who want to spread our message, fine, join us!

Better late than never.

 

[PaisteMage]

Personally "Collion Nior" does a good job of convincing my pretty much anti gun father of at least thinking.

His approach doesnt ring true to others, but he at least has a good way of pointing out ridiculous arguments.

I find him entertaining. For those that don't know he is a new NRA spokesperson, who is intelligent, and just passed the BAR exam.

So maybe elloquently illustrating his point would be part of his career choice.

 

[X-Rap]

Your entire post is weird to me. Especially after the failure of the AWB and the Toomey-Manchin bill. Multiple news reports stated that the greatest pressure on our representatives was the overwhelming response from the electorate against these bills. Citing letter campaigns where our side was 10:1 in letter writing, phone calls, and petitioning.

We did that, not some talking head. If there are spokspersons out there who want to spread our message, fine, join us!

And that massive letter campaign just happened because some grass roots bloggers and gun forums put out the word? without any help from the same right wing extremists that are getting beat up here? Really? Can anyone cite any left wing or "moderate" outlets who helped promote the resistance to the anti gun legislation in recent months? Ever?

 

[stumpers]

I think there needs to be a better job done of highlighting just how normal and mainstream gun ownership is.

We don't need a spokesperson - gun ownership sells itself pretty well - and evidently sells itself even better when antis promote their legislation.

 

[Walkalong]

there is more at stake than just the 2A and it can't stand alone in what is becoming and ever more degraded culture.

There is absolutely a great deal at stake, has been, and ever will be.

Degraded culture? We could argue for years about just what that is and what is good and what is not, but we don't do that here.

We are about sharing our passion and knowledge of guns, responsible gun ownership, and standing up for gun rights and the 2nd Amendment.

Guns, guns, & more guns, that's what we are about were.

 

[Walkalong]

I think there needs to be a better job done of highlighting just how normal and mainstream gun ownership is.

I agree 100%. How about some good suggestions on how we can better do this.

 

[stumpers]

I agree 100%. How about some good suggestions on how we can better do this.

Just the first thing that popped into my head - why don't manufacturers advertise on TV? Is it that they just don't, or that networks won't sell them time?

 

[X-Rap]

So we don't need spokesman, leadership, access to the public through media?
We can just promote our agenda while sitting around some electronic campfire.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...elist-thinks-nra-meeting-was-inciting-a-riot/
Take a look at this clip and see how the MSM views us and our organization. We are all good and normal and wanting compromise it's just that Riot Inciting organization and leadership.
I am honestly just searching for answers but when I see things like this and how they view us it just looks like we would need a total reset of all the structure that bonds our cause and we know how that will end up right?

 

[Frank Ettin]

We've heard who should not represent us in media, I'd like to hear who is standing up and in the fight that pleases the masses appropriately...

I think one of our major problems is that we're woefully short of folks who can both tell our story effectively and get media attention. But that doesn't validate folks who might have been able to get media exposure beating the Second Amendment drum in a way that alienates the people we need to reach.

 

[SabbathWolf]

Tom Selleck, Samuel L. Jackson and Bruce Willis.

 

[SuperNaut]

And that massive letter campaign just happened because some grass roots bloggers and gun forums put out the word? without any help from the same right wing extremists that are getting beat up here?

Yeah, for the most part.

Really? Can anyone cite any left wing or "moderate" outlets who helped promote the resistance to the anti gun legislation in recent months? Ever?

I don't understand why this matters? Being Libertarian, I got most of my info from Libertarian sites, but to your question there were some really great blog posts from lefties coming out against the anti-gun legislation posted here on THR. I subscribed to a lot of new bloggers in the weeks running up to the vote. Maybe you should try media outlets other than Glenn Beck's little hobby site, maybe you think we need a leader because you are being told that we do?

 

[X-Rap]

I agree Frank and in the perfect world the media would treat our right with as much respect as the one they claim so dear to them. We all know that isn't the case and I doubt that it ever will be. So then should we stifle the voices we have in order to somehow attract and convert "the people we need to reach"? I'm not sure who those people might be but when I look at the possibilities I don't have a sense that they would be reliable comrades in our fight.
I do believe that the much maligned radio hosts and entertainers that are believed to be so divisive are pretty much unbendable when it comes to our cause so for me I will stay with those who helped bring me to the dance and welcome any others who are like minded.

 

[SuperNaut]

much maligned radio hosts

Radio? Really?