So why don't dealers carry BP?

[stevekl]

As I understand it, hazmat fees apply to all sorts of things- primers and smokeless powder, for example.

And yet, gun stores carry primers and smokeless powder.

So the hazmat fee can't be the reason that stores don't stock real BP.

So what is the reason?

 

[dmickey]

Perhaps you should ask your question at your local dealer? He may not think that there is sufficent demand for it. He may think that it is more hazardous for him to carry. It could be a number of reasons. You'll never know unless you ask your dealer.

 

[BigG]

BP is classified as an explosive. The other powders are classified as propellants, not explosives.

The regs for storage of BP require a powder magazine and special shipping.

 

[fineredmist]

Here in CT the local fire marshalls have a big say in the matter and they impose heavy restrictions an the storage of BP, some towns ban the sale outright.

 

[Im283]

Unlike smokeless powders which are considered propellants, BP is considered an explosive.
There are very stringent rules and laws on the storage of explosives. Most dealers choose not to deal with all the legal stuff and expense associated with storing these explosives.

Thats the short of it all, I will guess one of the more informed fellows on this subforum will happen by with a better explanation for you.

I am pretty sure it has a lot to do with 9-11 as a cause for this.

LOL a bunch of us responded at about the same time.

 

[mainmech48]

What BigG said. There're also special storage requirements and BATFE forms to keep track of.

Most dealers around here, large and small, just offer Pyrodex or one of the other 'substitutes' to spare themselves the hassle and expense on a low-volume/low demand item.

 

[Jim K]

Not only official laws and regulations, but a dealer's insurance rates go sky high if he handles explosives.

Jim

 

[Jim Dandy]

Black powder for small arms is classified by the D.O.T. as 1.1 -- an explosive with a mass explosion hazard. Smokeless powder for small arms is classified as 1.3 -- an explosive with predominantly a fire hazard.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/49cfr173_05.html

 

[sundance44s]

The only gun shop near me that will still carry real black powder is BassPro Shop ..they have a high price on it for haveing to keep it in a special container ..and increase in insurance ...when this happened the price took a jump from 19 bucks a can to 28 bucks a can ..they still have pyrodex and other subs out on the shelves but you have to ask for the Goex ...most folks don`t know they still have it here ..they never posted a sign , but I asked and found out . so it don`t hurt to ask if you don`t see it on the shelves.

 

[Jim Dandy]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/fflc/ffl/faqs_genques.htm#q5

 

[scrat]

I guess thats why you need to learn how to make it like so many of us are now doing. Or at least trying to learn how. in a few weeks i should have everything to make my first batch and try it out.

 

[arcticap]

How much does the Federal low explosives license cost?
I thought that it cost about $300, but I'm not sure if that's per year or what?

 

[Mike OTDP]

Your best bet is to Google for Goex and Swiss powder, find a distributor, and buy 20-25 lbs. This should hold you for a while.

 

[mykeal]

The explosives license fee for a manufacturer, importer or dealer is $200. It's $100 for a 'User' and $75 for a 'Limited User'. The license is good for 3 years, with 3 year renewals costing half as much (except for the 'Limited User' - it is not renewable).

 

[Beagle-zebub]

To what extent is BP dangerous, do the restrictions make any sense, and what, if any, would?

 

[sundance44s]

It may be different from state to state , but here in MS. I can have 25 lbs in my keep without a permit ...and can buy 50 lbs a year ..
I `ve been buying mine 25 lbs at a time from Powderinc for the last 3 years ..it`s much cheaper that way ..the last case I bought (25lbs) worked out to 11 dollars a lb to my door ...I uasually sell a few cans to friends that don`t use as much as I do ...and make a buck or two.

 

[Perk]

Next time you’re at the store, look for “strike anywhere” matches. Blue tip, or red tip; it doesn’t matter. The things’re getting harder to find all the time, in many areas. Why? Well, they don’t cost much and they don’t sell much. But, the insurance expenses can be huge, for the vendor, who wishes to carry the things.

At the other end of the fuse, comes BP. The graph line for insurance costs can go up, diagonally, from what we saw applied to the lowly match. Vendors, in areas of the country most harshly affected, simply do not wish to pass on the costs involved in feeding and caring for BP kegs, within their store premises.

Then, there’s the paperwork.

Mind you - not every state, or even every area within every state, is so strict. The ones that are have enacted laws involving full disclosure, placards and the like (mileage varies). This, to the point that, well, it's just sad, sometimes...

 

[Redd Flynt]

I used to sell BP but was forced to stop.

A dealer may only have 50 lbs on hand. Now some folks want GOEX and some want Swiss and some want Brand X and then figure in all the granulations, quite an inventory.

BP must be stored within 8 feet of an exit door in an approved magazine and not be readily accessible to the public. This seems trivial but it's a real show stopper.

A dealer must have an explosive dealer permit from ATF. Not cheap any more.

When inventory runs low most dealers buy a 25 lb case but on hand inventory must be less than 25 lbs due to the 50 lb limit.

Dealers pay the same case price as the public plus hazmat plus the explosive license plus shipping.

Now comes State law, business license, sales tax permit and collecting/reporting same.

Then we get to fire code, insurance and all the other local rules.

Then we come to profit (some business owners think they are entitled to a profit). When I had to sell BP at $30 a lb and STILL lost money I quit selling it.

Some States don't allow retailers to have the full 50 lbs. And one other little detail, only the persons named on the explosives permit may sell BP.

Hope this answers some of the questions about BP.

 

[stevekl]

Geez. Black powder has everything going against it!

Well, I am personally content with using Pyrodex. I just shot BP for the very first time today (well, I used pyrodex), and it was INCREDIBLY fun. I still smell like rotten eggs, though

 

[Elbert P . Suggins]

Here in Idaho we can still buy Goex without much trouble. It is alot easier than finding a ton of Ammonium Nitrate which is impossible the last 4 years because of the possibility that terrorist would fill a spray plane hopper with it soaked in diesel and fly it into something. It's a dangerous world we live in and getting more so.

 

[Macmac]

The Kittery Trading Post in Maine carrys goex. It used to be smaller shops had it, but no more.

The manager there was a Buck Skinner, and might still be, but I haven't seen him around as of late.

I am sure he can answer any questions for those in the North East.

I won't give his name here, but he does have a strange looking beard these days. If you go there and see him say mac said Hi..

 

[Misfire99]

I lived in BeiJing for a awhile. I was shocked to see that they are much freer the we are. I was in BeiJing for three months and only saw a cop once and that was in front of the main government building. There are guys that direct traffic but they really aren't cops. When I came back on the drive from the airport to my home I saw ten police. We are the ones that live in a police state. Over there if you want to do something you just do it. Here you need a license, an environmental report, a lawyer to make sure you don't get sued or go to jail.

There is a gun range just on the outskirts of BeiJing. It's run by the military. You can rent and shoot just about any gun you want. From 22 trainer to and anti tank rocket. They even have a tank for you to shoot at. Here you have to go out to the middle of nowhere and maybe you can find an automatic weapons range. I here there is one in southern Nevada that you can shoot dynamite with machine guns. Now that does sound fun.

The main reason that you can't buy Black Powder is the Government is afraid of you. It wants to get all forms of improvised weapons out of your reach so you don't kill them. Barney Frank said that a person using a weapon to secure their rights terrifies him. As well it should because he would be high on my hit list.

We are the police state. The only reason it's not worse is we need free trade to maintain our economic advantage. So the next time you get all uppity about some knife being made in a foreign country realize that is the only thing that secures your freedoms. And if you don't understand why that is you are not living up to the responsibility of being an American. Educate yourself so you can make educated decisions. You can start by studying economics.

 

[mykeal]

Yep. In China you can do whatever you want. Like have 3 kids. Oops, well, maybe not. What a bunch of crap.

 

[JCT]

Which brings me back to that timeless and recently relevant quote of Ben Franklin;
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
It's all happened so quick too. I can remember buying Goex right at the hardware store, not even 10 years ago. I know people around here that used to buy dynamite right at the hardware store. Rather than having a culture to teach responsibility and safety, we just ban and take everything away and avoid and ignore things..... not good:banghead:
I'll keep making my own BP. No license is needed as long as it's for my own use and I don't sell or distribute it.
I'd like to see making BP become as common as casting lead. I'm also amazed that GOEX and Swiss are still staying in business.

 

[scrat]

Yep and thats why im going to start making mine. who knows what the next 5 years will be on bp powder. but im sure its not good. so we need to go back to the old ways and learn to make it for our own personal use.