So, your kid's doctor asks you about your guns...

[benEzra]

The problem is, I think, that the AAP has politicized the issue so deeply that any doctor who brings up the issue is often assumed to be regurgitating AAP political talking points, hence the non-receptive attitude of many gun owners.

When our children were infants, we received the AAP/TIPP handouts on home safety. Firearms are listed prominently on these.

http://www.aap.org/family/2to4yrs.htm

Here's what it says about firearms:

Firearm Hazards
Children in homes where guns are present are in more danger of being shot by themselves, their friends, or family members than of being injured by an intruder. It is best to keep all guns out of the home. If you choose to keep a gun, keep it unloaded and in a locked place, with ammunition locked separately. Handguns are especially dangerous. Ask if the homes where your child visits or is cared for have guns and how they are stored.

Swimming pools are NOT EVEN MENTIONED in this handout. But guess which one is a hundred times more likely to result in the accidental death of a child, on a per-owning-household basis? The pool. That demonstrates that the handout is almost entirely political, not safety oriented.

Also, the part about "children are more likely to be shot than to be injured by an intruder" is made-up BS; there is no data on that. Kellerman et al addressed only the likelihood of a registered gun owner, family member, or acquaintance in King County, WA (IIRC) being killed by somebody's gun (not necessarily the homeowner's) vs. the gun owner killing (not merely defending against, killing) an intruder who was completely unknown to the shooter. Shooting of violent attackers who were known to the victim were counted in the "shooting a friend or family member" column, of course. But no data on child deaths was collected, as far as I am aware.

The part about "handguns are especially dangerous" to kids is also made-up BS. Handguns are involved in most homicides committed outside the home, and hence most murders, but the data generally show rifles and shotguns to be slightly more likely to result in an accidental death (probably due to hunting accidents, and the fact that long guns are harder to secure if you don't have a safe).

More at length:

http://www.guncite.com/journals/tennmed.html

 

[Dr. Dickie]

You can't fit two adults and two kiddie seats in a standard pickup cab.

Isn't that what the bed is for?

 

[K3]

You can't fit two adults and two kiddie seats in a standard pickup cab.

Sure you can. The hispanic population around here can fit dozens in a pickup cab.

Apologies in advance... I just couldn't resist.

 

[ArmedBear]

oh no, someone telling you how to live your life and protect your spiritual health!!!!!! nazis!!! spies!!!

That's what they're paid for. If you go to a church, you're interested in those services, such as they are.

If you go to a church seeking a cast for a broken arm, THEN you're nuts.

 

[K3]

Our pediatrician hasn't mentioned it yet, and she has to know I own at least a BB gun. I just *look* like I do.

Our family doctor was asking me about a book I was reading while in the examining room about rifle accuracy. Seems he has a fondness for the .300H&H Magnum. His granddad passed down a nice one.

 

[History Prof]

I used to have a sign in my waiting room:

IF YOU HAVE GUNS AT HOME
Please be sure to store them properly, obtain instruction in their use if you're not thoroughly familiar with them, and enjoy them in safety.

DocMustang - I think there is your best answer yet.

Khornet - why "used to?" Are you a retired physician, or did you take it down for some reason? Did you ever ask the MD in the neighboring office to do a little math on that "every 9 minutes" thing?

That is 160/day.

1,120 / week

58,240 / year

 

[akanotken]

If I know the physician it's one thing ...

And he'd likely know that I do.

But I don't give the info out to anyone, and ask my kids to do the same. Just don't want to be the name that's bantied about when some group looking for a thrill/??? say .. "what could we steal?"

So, I'd never tell. But I do like Hist Prof's method. It avoids the question and skips thru the lecture and conveys the feelings.

Maybe even "do you have a list of child dangers often found around houses? I'd love to peruse it to make sure that I've been complete in making my home safe for my children and thier visiting friends".

I would be livid if the only object that made the questioning was guns tho.

 

[StuckInMA]

If the question had to be asked it may be a little more palatable if you extend it beyond the home. A lot of families have two working parents nowadays which means their child usually ends up in someone else's care for a certain portion of the day. So, "Do you know if any guns are present in the home of anyone whose care he/she may be under?" may seem a little less harsh. It allows you to ask the "required" question without singling out the parents. It also gives a parent an easy out since they can say "I'm not sure/Maybe/I can ask" since the question isn't targeted at just their house in particular. "Ok, here's a brochure just in case" would be the only necessary response for those who don't have an agenda.

Personally, I'd rather not answer the question, but since the question can be answered by my child I feel the need to be honest. Seems like a red flag would be raised if I said "no" and my child said "yes." The doc may take it upon himself to drop a dime thinking the guns must be illegal since Daddy denies having them. I don't need a squad car out front and a knock at the door because I chose not to answer the question honestly.

We've taught our child not to talk about guns outside of the house. But, we've also taught our child to tell the doctor the truth during a visit (even a check-up) so he can figure out what/if anything is wrong and help. I'm not sure at almost 5 we can expect our child to fully understand that the truth only pertains to certain questions at the doc's office.

In reality I'm more afraid of the question being raised at school than at the docs office. I registered my child for kindergarten yesterday and was holding my breath the whole time hoping the question wouldn't be asked or on any of the forms (thankfully it wasn't). I don't want to see my child frisked before entering school every day because there are guns in the home. Sorry to go OT a bit.

 

[Khornet]

History Prof,

that sign was when I was still in Primary Care Internal Medicine. I'm now a gastroenterologist, and have no need to ask about home safety matters. Also, my talented (and formidable, though lovely) wife designed the attractive decor in my new office, and said firmly that the sign did not fit in.

I keep a S&W 1911Sc in a Fobus bolted to the inside of the knee well of my desk. All my staff know where it is and how to use if if necessary, and that if I'm in the office the gun is there.

I have a number of patients who carry, and we always talk guns. Last December one of them was in for a colonoscopy, and after we were done he said "Now for the important stuff. What are you carrying these days?" I brought out the Smith, and he had his wife get his Glock from her purse, and after making both safe we passed them back and forth discussing them, right there in my recovery room. Then his wife brought out her sleek little S&W auto and we did the same.

Nobody turned a hair. 'Course, he was the last patient of the day, I own the place, and the staff don't care. Still, it's fun to be able to do that.

 

[USMCRotrHed]

I used to go hunting with my pediatrician and his family. When I was 13 he told me I had exceptional gun handling and safety skills and he would trust me in the woods with his son anyday (his son was 9 at the time).

I think he already knew we had guns in the house.

 

[antsi]

----------quote----------
The problem is, I think, that the AAP has politicized the issue so deeply that any doctor who brings up the issue is often assumed to be regurgitating AAP political talking points, hence the non-receptive attitude of many gun owners.
-------------------------

This is key.

Your organization is hostile to gun ownership. They have launched off on a ideology-driven crusade, making assertions and recommendations contrary to the evidence on accidental deaths.

Once that has been done, there is no way you can come into a patient's room and address this subject with any credibility.

It also damages the organization's credibility in other areas. Now, whenever I hear the AAP is setting off on a new policy agenda, I have to wonder if they're being professional this time, or if this is just another ideological crusade.

You people need to clean house at the AAP, then we can talk.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

The answer would be to politely tell you to "F" yourself and go find a real Dr.---rather than a social engineer.

Base your question on that kind of responce---and you'll be OK.

 

[torpid]

----------quote----------
The problem is, I think, that the AAP has politicized the issue so deeply that any doctor who brings up the issue is often assumed to be regurgitating AAP political talking points, hence the non-receptive attitude of many gun owners.
-------------------------

This is key.

Your organization is hostile to gun ownership. They have launched off on a ideology-driven crusade, making assertions and recommendations contrary to the evidence on accidental deaths.

Once that has been done, there is no way you can come into a patient's room and address this subject with any credibility.

It also damages the organization's credibility in other areas. Now, whenever I hear the AAP is setting off on a new policy agenda, I have to wonder if they're being professional this time, or if this is just another ideological crusade.

You people need to clean house at the AAP, then we can talk.

Sums it up very nicely.

.

 

[txgho1911]

DocMustang,
The best you could do is publish here or in an IM the names, addresses, and phone numbers for the AAP management or leadership who defined that policy.
This way the most law abiding and articulate among us could attempt to gently educate them with facts. Maybe even invite them for some hands on experience like a range trip or stop into a gun shop somewhere they may be able to get the real scoop on how much care we give in raising our kids.

This policy was not invented by the body or even agreed upon by the rank and file. Who knows some of the controlling body may be known to us now as our own MDs or close associates of. Several members here work at or attend universities where these AAP leaders are based. So many possibilities.

Given a little focus I can imagine they are not to hard to track down without help.

 

[txgho1911]

Did you expect such a wild ride? I would not describe this thread as "rough" or even bumpy. Thank you for allowing us to express our outrages against "some" in the medical field who will support an attack against us based on fictitious numbers.

What antsi said.

 

[chemist308]

LMAO. My doctor once took the liberty of showing me his AR-15. Sweet rifle too. If he were to ever ask that question, it would most likely be to give a plug for why you should be an NRA member.

 

[fatelk]

The pediatrician we take our kids to (2 1/2 and 1) seems real good, but the gun thing does come up during checkups. She's low-key about it and it's right in with questions about safe household chemical and medication storage, so I'm not offended and she's clearly not making any judgements about firearms. Our standard answer is "We have a safe" and it goes no further.

In this context I think it's fine. There are some people out there who could benefit from thinking a little bit about safe gun storage, as well as chemicals, medications, and swimming pools.

 

[Happyshooter]

My last doc got let go from the system for--she said--being too slow.

My wife likes the new guy, but I got there and they had a long form to fill out, one section with questions about if I wear a motorcycle helmet, if I wear a seat belt, if I fight, if I hit my wife or kids,and few questions about if I owned guns, did I have a safe for them...

I wrote across the whole section "this is none of your business or concern".

The prissy nurse practitioner (jumped up temp taker) came in, read that, and acted like I farted in her face. She stiffened up and started making faces and talking snippy like a Democrat women in washington.

The doc was too sick to see me, so I will have to wait and see if he is a bitch too, or if he just makes poor hiring choices.

 

[spocahp anar]

If I ever find out that a doctor asked my kids this, or asks me this directly I will leave the premises immediately. It's none of their damn business.

I may even begin to ask personal questions of them. How many times a month do you orgasm? etc etc..... See if they like their privacy being invaded.

 

[Lonestar]

As a part of my program I am required to deliver a few presentations to my colleagues during my pediatric rotation. One of the things that bothers me is that as a part of all "well child" exams above about age 2 one of the questions the AAP requires to be asked is "are their any firearms in the home?" affirmative answers will be given a brief period of anticipatory guidance with respect to firearm safety. As the anti-gun bias of the AAP is fairly well known you can guess how many board certified pediatricians have actual experience with firearms or their safe storage in the home.

Docmustang...With the "Well Child" program are you supposed to ask if the the kid uses seatbelt/carseats and if the kid uses a helmet when they ride a bike or skateboard right??? So what is the big deal??? My pediatrician, also belongs to my range and is an avid shooter. His take on the rule is that it was created to educate the stupid. He simply ask, "you have a toddler age child, do you own a firearm and do you keep it locked? If someone says they don't lock their guns, he will educate them on different locks (cable, trigger, gunsafe, etc.). Some will come away educated, and hopefully their kids will be safe. Other gun strokers will exclaim that he knowns nothing about firearms (he has a nice collection, is an IDPA and 3 gun shooter), and then Mr. Stupid mentions that he tells his 2 year old never to touch his loaded guns that he leave laying around the house in case the zombies attack :banghead:.

I STILL see mothers with infants on their laps in the front seat of cars. I yell at them ever time I see it. Sure you can say that I'm barging into the mother's private life, but even the poorest person can get a car seat for their baby,via wealfare/charity so there is no excuse. They are just lazy or stupid. With passenger side airbags, all you need is a minor fender bender and poof, the baby is dead.

We had an incident in Philadelphia about a year ago, where a stupid parent left a loaded glock in the cushion of the living room couch. A toddler found the gun and BLAM, another dead kid. Funny thing was, THE MEDIA PUT SOME OF THE BLAME ON THE GLOCK TRIGGER:banghead:. I have glocks and other guns, but my kids cannot get to them, simple as that. I don't care if your going to be a stupid adult and thru natural selection kill or hurt yourself by doing something stupid, but don't let your stupidity endanger your kids.

 

[acdodd]

I STILL see mothers with infants on their laps in the front seat of cars. I yell at them ever time I see it.

Who put you in charge of the world.
Like the Dr it is none of your business what other people do.
Take care of yourself and let the rest of the world take care of them selves.
Would you stand at McDonald's and tell mothers they shouldn't let their kids eat there?
If you want to police others get a LEO job.
It is stupid to not have your kids secured in a car seat but that is their choice.
If you hate it that much call 911.

AC

 

[torpid]

With the "Well Child" program are you supposed to ask if the the kid uses seatbelt/carseats and if the kid uses a helmet when they ride a bike or skateboard right??? So what is the big deal???

The difference in "well child" questioning is that the AAP isn't actively trying to ban pools, skateboards, vehicles, household chemicals, etc., but they are actively interested in banning handguns and "assault weapons".

 

[mek42]

I STILL see mothers with infants on their laps in the front seat of cars. I yell at them ever time I see it.

It is stupid to not have your kids secured in a car seat but that is their choice.
If you hate it that much call 911.

Just like it is my choice whether or not to muzzle flash other people at the range with a loaded weapon and finger on the trigger? If this happens to you are you going to try to correct the situation right then or just call 911?

These situations are not the same as whether or not I personally do or do not wear my seatbelt or wear a motorcycle helmet. Both of these situations (my example of improper firearm safety and Lonestar's example of improper child restraint in a motor vehicle) both can cause harm to someone else - Lonestar's situation can harm someone who literally has no ability to protest the potential harm.

Back on topic - many of you here have expressed disdain toward the possibility of being asked whether you own firearms. Would you also object to hearing about firearm safety as part of a generic household items safety presentation by your pediatrician as long as you were not asked whether you owned firearms?

 

[10 Ring Tao]

Come right out and say that the question must be asked, and then phrase it so that it doesn't come across as an insult.

Just asking if there are guns in the home is going to raise people's hackle right off the bat. We've been conditioned by the media and other ignorants to be careful about what we say regarding guns.

So, after you somehow determine there are guns in the house, continue with something along the lines of...

"In that case, the AAP has directed all of us peds to ask about how safe firearms are being stored at home. Just to make sure, are there any guns that your child could possibly get ahold of without you around?"

Of course, questioning about swimming pools and car seats would do a hell of a lot more good, and avoid more senseless irritatation for gun owners.

 

[acdodd]

Just like it is my choice whether or not to muzzle flash other people at the range with a loaded weapon and finger on the trigger? If this happens to you are you going to try to correct the situation right then or just call 911?

If you muzzle flash me yes I will say something because it directly affects me.
If you muzzle flash someone else I would not say a word to you.
I might let the person you flash know if they didn't see it.
After that it would be up to them.
I am not in charge of anyone but me and you aren't either.
Everyone wants to tell everyone else how to live their lives.
Mind your own business and I will mind mine.