So, your kid's doctor asks you about your guns...

[TimboKhan]

To be perfectly honest Doc, I don't think it is the doctors place to talk about gun safety in the home any more than it is the police officers place to proctor a college history test. Since when do doctors and the health establishment have any "jurisdiction" in our homes outside of medical issues? I like and respect doctors, but I don't need to be counseled about what I do on my own time by a doctor if it isn't related to my health, and I certainly don't need a doctor telling my kids (if I had any) a message that might conflict with what I am teaching. Yeah, I know: A gunshot wound is a health issue, but so is a baseball to the head, a fall from a tree and wrecking a bike, all injuries I sustained as a kid and I don't think you are asking "Do you have trees in your backyard"? It's just not any of your business.

 

[TallPine]

I just still can't figure out how doctors have the time to ask all this stuff anymore

My experience has always been that you're lucky to get 30 seconds with the doctor after sitting in a room for a half an hour. They all must either have had a lot of other patients to see, or an appointment at the golf course

 

[Walkalong]

Mine asked.

I said "nonyer, now, lets get back to what my child is sick with."

A few seconds strange look, then started to give me "the speech". I again asked him to get back on the subject at hand.

 

[sansone]

it's silly to even ask sutch questions. like my tire changer asking my kids if they wear seat belts. no, it's even sillier.. like my gardener asking the wife what size bra she wears

 

[oldfart]

"the singleminded hostility on this forum is astounding"

As we used to say in the Navy, "there ain't no anchor on your @$$, you can leave."

 

[PotatoJudge]

As we used to say in the Navy, "there ain't no anchor on your @$$, you can leave."

As I said before, heck of a way to promote the RKBA. Every time this comes up, I like this place a bit less. It's not the "there's no right way to ask the question, it shouldn't be asked"- because I agree. It's all the other comments. Here we are with 8 pages of the same "hey, check this out, I told off my doctor" or "this is how I'd tell off my doctor" and the off-topic golf jabs, missed diagnoses, and general complaints with how medicine is administered. I think DocMustang gets the point: there is no good way to ask. Don't like the politics of the AAP? None of us do, how can you change it? Have you talked to your doctor (in a polite manner) about guns? Have you challenged them to research the subject? Sounds like missed opportunities to me.

The same stuff goes for LEOs, lawyers, and other criticized professions. There are lots of these guys on here, and it does the site a disservice to keep this sort of thing up.

 

[skypirate7]

Proper answer:

I've got guns, I've got matches, I've got knives, I've got blenders, I've got a lawn mower, I've got a car, I've got a shovel, I've got a saw, I've got a drill, I've got bug spray, I've got vitamins, I've got wall-sockets and toasters and probably a thousand other things I haven't mentioned that could be potentially dangerous for my children.

But I do my best to keep my children safe and I'm not going to be a fool and think that eliminating all of the above items is the only way to ensure a safe environment.

Do you wear a helmet 24/7 in case your house's masonry suddenly decides to crumble? No? Why? Oh, it's an acceptable level of risk and you have taken practical safety precautions regarding your home's structural integrity? There's your answer.

 

[sansone]

all kidding aside, post #4 gave an honest, reasonable suggestion to the good doctor

 

[RaetherEnt]

I guess I'm just one of the lucky ones...My family doctor took me hunting with him, on HIS land this past year. I helped rid him of one of those pesky does that was running around on his property...

 

[HuntAndFish]

I think this is very good advice from WheelGunMom :

To make the firearm question more palatable (ALL of the questions, by the way, are kind of insulting to anyone who considers themself to be a good and responsible parent), perhaps it could simply be phrased as "if you own fireams do you ensure that they are properly stored and that your child has been educated about firearm safety" (or some such similar language) rather than the very loaded (pardon the pun) "do you own guns"-type question.

Seriously, I wonder if there is a question about swimming pools on the questionaire. What about it Doc?

 

[1911 guy]

Time and priorities.

Doctors are in a hurry from patient to patient these days. Some to turn a buck faster, others because they have a large case load and little help. A doctors time is better spent on diagnosing, treating and conducting regular check-ups than spending his/her time and my money chirping the party line about gun control disguised as gun safety. It is irresponsible of them to take time away from legitimate medical needs and it is theft to take my money while not providing the service I came for but rather substituting a narrow minded line. That goes for guns, pools, bike helmets, everything. A pediatrician should have a list of phone numbers for parents to contact with questions about topics such as these.

How should it be handled? Remember that it "has" to be asked only because other doctors said so. You are a doctor, you know your patients and you know their parents. Who is more qualified to determine what needs to be said and done with and to them? You, their doctor, or another doctor who has never met them, never will, and made a biased decision years ago?

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

I do not think any of these questions have a place in an appointment with a doctor unless they relate to the reason for having made the appointment.

I go to a doctor for medical care not psychoanalysis, nagging about how I live my life or political discussions.

There is no good way to ask some questions as they should not be asked.

 

[coelacanth]

"physician, heal thyself."

Thanks for whacking the old hornets nest Doc ( grin ). Can we all assume that by now you've alerted your colleagues to the existence of this forum and referenced this particular thread? If not, what are you waiting for? There's got to be enough content here to set off a lively debate at the next AAP conference regardless of the current position of the leadership within your organization. Just remember that this is every bit the peer reviewed journal for your patients that the New England Journal of Medicine is for you docs.

 

[DocMustang]

Walking into a room and saying "bugs!"

I thought I would give all of you a brief report. I was able to give my presentation. I will admit to quoting some of you, its a public forum after all. Overall I was pleasantly suprized by the reception. Even in Ann Arbor most of the physicians I spoke to were grateful for the information. I even received a few compliments to the effect that it was a unique and interesting choice of topic.
Based on this reception I am considering writing a paper reviewing some of the publications which are regarded as "gospel" to the medical community with respect to firearm ownership and storage. It is extremely interesting to me that many of the medical journals publish findings that stand in direct opposition to those published in criminology journals. Not sure if I will attempt to publish said paper but it would be good practice so that at least 1 doc stands well informed.

 

[sansone]

thanks for sharing doc

 

[Dr. Dickie]

Publish it Doc. Just give it a title that is not confrontational, and almost no one will ever know what it is about (yeah, I know but that is the truth). It never hurts to have publications (heck, you may want to go into research!).
It would be good for the community (medical) and good for the nation.
Plus, your patients will never know what you published so no fear of loss business due to antis.
Unless you fear the AMA
Just kidding

 

[benEzra]

Doc, I know the following article is a bit old (1990's), but it references a lot of the touchstones in the literature, and you may find it a useful resource, particularly the medical journal citations.

Kates et al, Guns and Public Health: Epidemic of Violence or Pandemic of Propaganda? 61 Tenn. L. Rev. 513-596 (1994)

 

[apachejack]

Dang, Doc, you love to stir up the crowds don't you? None of the questions about firearms should be on any doctors questionaire but they are and we have to live with it. Personally, I won't see a doctor that I don't trust so I don't have any problems with my doctor asking me any questions about anything. It has come into our conversation about guns and he understands why I have them and I am safe with them. He has drugs in his office for samples that are just as dangerous or more so than our guns. I understand he is safe with those. If you don't trust a doctor enough to answer a few personal questions then you should not be at his office.

 

[ArmedBear]

If you don't trust a doctor enough to answer a few personal questions then you should not be at his office.

Do you trust him to write these things down, on papers that will follow you for life?

It's not about trusting him.

 

[PotatoJudge]

Do you trust him to write these things down, on papers that will follow you for life?

About everyone does.
What's a gun? Life insurance. What's going to disqualify someone from life/health insurance? Medical records. So everything the doctor writes on those papers that follow you the rest of your life is important- arthritis, HIV, acid-reflux, cancer, asthma, whatever. Try changing jobs after diagnosis of a chronic condition (that you trust your doctor to document) and see if you can get insurance. The difference is not about trust, it's about the unnecessary risk of future consequences due to the documentation verusus the benefit.

How about a standardized form for the patient to sign stating that home safety was covered? Just stick it in the file. I know lots of you don't see home safety as a doctor's job, but would that be okay?

 

[hankpac]

Doc: I am sorry I got on this topic a little late (8 pages late!) I had to go to the begining to learn that you are in rotations, so are probably a resident or intern.
I am retired from 25 years of practice as an Emergency Medicine PA. I ran a solo status ER in West Texas for 10 years.
I observed when the left wing physicians started putting the "Question" into the curriculum. You have to ask, during your training, but you don't have to do anything once you are on the street. I worked mostly rural areas, and all of my colleagues owned firearms, hunted, and taught their kids to shoot.
By definition we must be thorough in our treatment of children. In 15 minutes we not only have to fix what's wrong, we have to get a feel for what is going on in this child's life. Not everyone who brings a child into your office is living in a life style that supports or protects those kids. The same people who leave packs of Crack on the coffee table for the toddler to get into, also leave firearms loaded, and under pillows or on tables. not everyone who owns a gun is doing so safely, as safely as anyone who posts here, for instance.
You have to figure that out.
In my town, there are probably 5 homes that don't have half a dozen firearms inside. Try to figure out who is storing them safely. I Never asked that question of anyone. I figure everyone has at least two.
When the Sheriff's Dept started handing out gun locks, I asked for and got a box of them to give out on the reception desk. If it got empty, they refilled it.
Be creative.
I forget the physician who published the landmark study, but he started with the premise that guns are a problem. He ended up publishing that things actually were pretty good. It may have been the study cited above, a few posts. It shut some idiots up for a while. The opposition has been busy making up some conflicting numbers since then.
Good luck doc.

 

[Guntalk]

I hope this hasn't been mentioned, and if it has, my aplogy.

Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership.

http://www.claremont.org/projects/projectid.12/project_detail.asp

Lots of good info.

I consider it a boundary violation for a doctor to ask about firearms ownership. I would want to know what form of continuing education he or she has about firearms safety.

I also would have no trouble calling the state board and reporting such a violation.

But, that's just me. I'm easy to get along with. Just don't help those who want to disarm me.

 

[Henry Bowman]

My kids' doc assumes that they ride bikes and asks them, "Do you always wear your bike helmet?" Fair enough. Head injuries and all.

Suppose he/she assumed that they shot firearms with Mom and Dad. If he/she asked, "Do you always wear ear and eye protection when you shoot?" or "Can you tell me the Four Rules?" we'd all probably be OK with that and not feel "invaded." It's the ignorant and unfounded assumption that the mere presence or possession is inherently dangerous and evil that is so insulting to me.

After all, they don't ask, "Is there any tobacco in the house?" and we don't see signs prohibiting possession of tobacco on the premises -- it's the use that is an issue. I'd have no problem with the store that has a "No Shooting" sign on the door.

 

[XDKingslayer]

I simply told the Dr. that we traded all our guns for 3 wheelers and lawn darts.

 

[PotatoJudge]

How you ask is as important as what you ask.

A doctor is supposed to ask without judgement. Smoking, owning guns, sexual activity, whatever, it's most important to get the info so you can cover the medical side of issues without making a person feel like a deviant criminal or something. For docs with poor interpersonal skills, they may never master this aspect of medicine and will miss opportunities to improve their patients' health because of it. They will also make enemies of patients; see the previous pages for evidence.

I consider it a boundary violation for a doctor to ask about firearms ownership.

You might be suprised what other people consider boundary violations that you'd be fine with your doc asking. It's a cultural thing, which can be tricky business to deal with when you and your patient differ (which is nearly always in some regard).