Solvent trap adapters

[Impureclient]

These must be legal by themselves as they are sold everywhere. At what point does it become illegal, after you use it or after it is threaded to a filter?
How would you inscribe a serial number on that nut? These "adapters" really are throwing a monkey wrench in the NFA thing, aren't they? It seems so ridiculous
to have bought this for a couple bucks and then have to wait 6+ months and $200 later to use it. The government must hate these things.

Also, does anybody have any experience with these? From the videos, they seem just as effective as a $300+ can

Amazon : http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Solvent-Thread-Filter-Adapter/dp/B00BBM867U

Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Solvent-Trap-1-2-28-3-4-16-Thread-Oil-Filter-Adapter-FAST-FREE-SHIP-/390497822247

 

[weblance]

A 6 month wait, and a $200 tax, or 10 years in Federal Prison? There looks to be enough room on the rim for a serial number. I have no interest, because the diameter of the filter cover the sights. Its simply a novelty.

 

[Elkins45]

Some of the Amazon reviews demonstrate a degree of arrogant stupidity that just astounds me. I seriously wonder if an enterprising ATF agent could get a judge to issue a search warrant issued based on some of those reviews? They are essentially thinly disguised admissions of felonies.

 

[smkummer]

What is wrong in the first place is that a sound suppressor is even included in the National Firearms Act. A person intent on doing an illegal act with a firearm such as harming someone else can easily make his own one time use suppressor and then throw it away. Besides, this looks like it really does work to stop getting dirty solvent all over the floor. I do follow all laws and we keep getting restrictions, infringments and downright bans. A 6 month wait is govt. at its best. If a private commercial enterprise was run like the ATF, it would be out of business fast.

 

[Midwest]

9 mm Solvent Trap?

From the Amazon Reviews

"Very happy to have it! I now am looking to get one for my 9mm. This is an awesome product. "

 

[MasterSergeantA]

These must be legal by themselves as they are sold everywhere. At what point does it become illegal, after you use it or after it is threaded to a filter?
How would you inscribe a serial number on that nut? These "adapters" really are throwing a monkey wrench in the NFA thing, aren't they? It seems so ridiculous
to have bought this for a couple bucks and then have to wait 6+ months and $200 later to use it. The government must hate these things.

Also, does anybody have any experience with these? From the videos, they seem just as effective as a $300+ can

Amazon : http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Solvent-Thread-Filter-Adapter/dp/B00BBM867U

Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Solvent-Trap-1-2-28-3-4-16-Thread-Oil-Filter-Adapter-FAST-FREE-SHIP-/390497822247

Commercial, purpose-built suppressors are probably quieter. But more importantly, they are not of a diameter similar to a standard oil filter and would not obscure the sight picture. And they might well be lighter.

Having said that, the oil filter adapter is legal so long as you don't load the gun and shoot it through the oil filter. I would leave it at home and use the solvent to clean it there as well. Otherwise, it wouldn't take a lot for the ATF to make a case if the filter had a hole in it.

 

[pikid89]

Actually mastersergeantA, youd be surprised at how quiet a oil filter can be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7t_pcWPdSDs#t=250s

 

[Charger442]

i am still appalled at people selling these thing unserialized.


i wouldnt touch one or go near one on a bet.

the only legitimate deal seems to be the serialized Cadiz gunworks ones. those are legal, but its up to you whether its worth the price or not.

 

[Elkins45]

What is wrong in the first place is that a sound suppressor is even included in the National Firearms Act. A person intent on doing an illegal act with a firearm such as harming someone else can easily make his own one time use suppressor and then throw it away.

I completely agree, but wishing it weren't the law doesn't change anything.

Besides, this looks like it really does work to stop getting dirty solvent all over the floor.

So does a 2 liter bottle, and it's a lot cheaper. And it works with unthreaded muzzles.

 

[MasterSergeantA]

Actually mastersergeantA, youd be surprised at how quiet a oil filter can be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7t_pcWPdSDs#t=250s

I might well be. That is why I couched my reply with 'probably'. But I have trouble with the sound on YouTube videos as I have no way of knowing what the quality of the recording might be. I would rather have someone submit one to someone who routinely tests suppressors before I committed myself to a real opinion. And some of the cans I have seen are not really all that quiet. The extra volume in the oil filter could make a huge difference, one might suppose.

 

[zignal_zero]

Well, Cadiz also sold them with NO serial numbers as "solvent traps" I know because I bought TWO of them - no numbers, no wait, no paper, etc.

My understanding was: if you intend to use it for the purpose of sound suppression, you are legally required to purchase a serialized one, submit your Form4, etc. However, if you are only buying one as a "cleaning aid" (as I did) it requires no documentation.

I think the big factor would be - if it is a cleaning aid, you would only be legally allowed to attach it to you barrel while the weapon is disassembled as compared to attaching an oil filter to an assembled pistol.

I took my gun apart, used the solvent trap to attach an oil filter to my barrel, scrubbed out the barrel, then disconnected the oil filter and disposed of it properly.

I bought BOTH of them from Cadiz and ended up selling both and just went back to covering my table with newspaper. This was over a year ago, no ninjas jumped out of black helos to kill my dog and take me o gitmo

 

[crazy-mp]

The ATF is too busy giving guns to mexican drug cartels to worry about how stupid you look with a CAT filter screwed on the end of your gun. I have shot a real suppressor next to one of these "gun cleaning completely legal *wink wink* adapters" and there is no comparison the purposely built one is without a doubt quieter.

This like an earlier post stated is a novelty, and its designed to make people with a lathe a lot of money quickly. Somebody sooner or later will get caught and the ATF will make an example out of them. $200 and a few months is still cheaper than the fine and some prison time.

There are hundreds of ways to make a suppressor at home with common materials I don't know why people are so fascinated by these.

 

[zignal_zero]

Crazy MP

Just for the record, mine were bought for cleaning aids and worked great as such. As for sound suppression, I bought a SWR Octane HDII. Not my 1st time through the process as I own a F/A

However, if someone WAS interested in misusing one of these to illegally make a silencer, there are FAR more ways to do so than simply attaching an oil filter.

I will not go into details out of respect for the owners of this site, BUT if you had one (and an imagination), you'd definitely see what I mean there is a plethora of ways that device could be misused.

 

[hentown]

The Cadiz "oil filter" suppressor required that the filter be serialized. You have to return the unit to Cadiz to have the can replaced @ $25.

Nothing illegal about attaching the adapter to anything, as long as you don't screw an oil filter into it on the end of a gun barrel.

I've been looking for a solvent trap adapter. Sure makes for a less-messy bore-cleaning!

 

[bamawrx]

I'd like to clear up a few things. First I purchased one of the "real" ones as a gift to my C3 dealer for being such a nice guy. I get to play with it, and they work extremely well. I have shot them on everything from .22 pistol to AR-15.

On the AR, depending on oil filter you use, you get a few quiet rounds then it goes loud as heck. Sights are not a problem on the AR family weapons.

The serialized legal silencer version has a blast baffle that covers up the oil return holes on the oil filter. The solvent trap version does not have this blast baffle. IF you were to attached the solvent trap on a firearm with a oil can and fire it you will get a face full of hot gasses and paper filter debris. Very dangerous indeed. So, they are not the same item. Perfectly legal to attached to gun with oil filter for solvent trap, just don't shoot it.

I'm sure you could Form 1 the solvent trap unit to add serial number and blast baffle, and then you would have a functional silencer unit. Not worth the $200 tax in my opinion, but I didn't have to pay one since it was gift for FFL SOT holder anyhow.

 

[JustinJ]

Albeit stupid, the reviews are funny. I do like the ones about quietly catching their solvents. Why somebody would take the risk just to play around is beyond me.

 

[tepin]

Funny stuff. I'll take a pass on buying one. I have enough problems already.

 

[CoRoMo]

i am still appalled at people selling these thing unserialized.

...

the only legitimate deal seems to be the serialized Cadiz gunworks ones. those are legal, but its up to you whether its worth the price or not.

Why should a threaded solvent trap adapter come serialized? Do you also get appalled at the fact that brass dual outlet hose adapters are being made/sold without serial numbers?

Why should the guy who designs waste water treatment systems have to buy a Cadiz Gunworks product so that he can connect the treatment tanks to the Ph probes? These are certainly legal from all indications. Can you point to a law that prohibits the sale/possession/purchase of a threaded solvent trap adapter? Please cite.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

So, seriously, how do you clean a gun with one of these? Switch from pull through to push through or drill out (not shoot out!) the bottom of the filter to do pull through?

I'd like to catch the spray when the bronze brush breaks the barrel as well as the mess coming from the bore squeeg-E.

Mike

 

[hentown]

Most folks use such catchers to capture patches that are pushed through the bore with a jag. Only an idiot would pull through the bore, anyhow.

I bought one of the stainless adapters. Should be in later this week. Can't wait to use it. Tired of patches falling on the floor! There's no law, to the best of my knowledge, against attaching an oil filter to a muzzle.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Most folks use such catchers to capture patches that are pushed through the bore with a jag. Only an idiot would pull through the bore, anyhow.

I bought one of the stainless adapters. Should be in later this week. Can't wait to use it. Tired of patches falling on the floor! There's no law, to the best of my knowledge, against attaching an oil filter to a muzzle.

I guess there are a lot of idiots out there, myself included.

Mike

 

[Charger442]

Why should a threaded solvent trap adapter come serialized? Do you also get appalled at the fact that brass dual outlet hose adapters are being made/sold without serial numbers?

Why should the guy who designs waste water treatment systems have to buy a Cadiz Gunworks product so that he can connect the treatment tanks to the Ph probes? These are certainly legal from all indications. Can you point to a law that prohibits the sale/possession/purchase of a threaded solvent trap adapter? Please cite.

ATF has this nastly little hammer they like to use called "constructive intent". Certainly you have heard of it and what it means? Its why they wont let you have extra baffles for a suppressor. or wipes. or several tubes that can attach to the muzzle. they say those are unregistered sound suppressors, even though they are parts.

There is no reason to bring the water treatment straw man argument into this, its a ridiculous argument because the ATF and NFA laws are not applied to parts used in waste water treatment plants. There are no firearms there. these adapters are specifically being marketed for use with firearms. that drops them squarely in the ATFs radar.

Attaching an oil filter to the end of a gun may be just fine on its own, and you can say its used for cleaning. But make no mistake, there is gray area there since you are using an un-serialized adapter, of which there is a serialized variety which the ATF has already weighed in on, to do the same thing. The difference people are trying to say is "oh yeah, i have this adapter that attaches an oil filter but i wont fire my gun with it on". in a court of law, they are going to point to constructive intent and say you COULD fire your gun with an oil filter on the end of it and it WILL lower the decibels of the sound and therefore that's a suppressor.

Y'all want to say its all good and its not illegal but the minute they catch someone with one and a bunch of oil filters with holes in the end of them from bullets passing through, they are going to get wise to whats going on. Also, i would be willing to bet from all the "nudge nudge wink wink" comments all over about them that there are a bunch of people already using them in an illegal manner, even if you say YOU specifically are not.

I already play the NFA game legally and i have no interest in dancing in such a gray area, especially knowing how the ATF changes their mind on a whim (they do it all the time) and then your flirting with a minimum 10 year prison sentence and everything that goes along with fighting that.... no thanks.

 

[bamawrx]

ATF has this nastly little hammer they like to use called "constructive intent". Certainly you have heard of it and what it means? Its why they wont let you have extra baffles for a suppressor. or wipes. or several tubes that can attach to the muzzle. they say those are unregistered sound suppressors, even though they are parts.

There is no reason to bring the water treatment straw man argument into this, its a ridiculous argument because the ATF and NFA laws are not applied to parts used in waste water treatment plants. There are no firearms there. these adapters are specifically being marketed for use with firearms. that drops them squarely in the ATFs radar.

Attaching an oil filter to the end of a gun may be just fine on its own, and you can say its used for cleaning. But make no mistake, there is gray area there since you are using an un-serialized adapter, of which there is a serialized variety which the ATF has already weighed in on, to do the same thing. The difference people are trying to say is "oh yeah, i have this adapter that attaches an oil filter but i wont fire my gun with it on". in a court of law, they are going to point to constructive intent and say you COULD fire your gun with an oil filter on the end of it and it WILL lower the decibels of the sound and therefore that's a suppressor.

Y'all want to say its all good and its not illegal but the minute they catch someone with one and a bunch of oil filters with holes in the end of them from bullets passing through, they are going to get wise to whats going on. Also, i would be willing to bet from all the "nudge nudge wink wink" comments all over about them that there are a bunch of people already using them in an illegal manner, even if you say YOU specifically are not.

I already play the NFA game legally and i have no interest in dancing in such a gray area, especially knowing how the ATF changes their mind on a whim (they do it all the time) and then your flirting with a minimum 10 year prison sentence and everything that goes along with fighting that.... no thanks.

Its legal because the solvent trap and silencer version ARE NOT THE SAME. One has blast baffle, one does not. Now if you "made" a blast baffle and had it sitting there with your solvent trap, you would be in constructive possession territory. Bullet hole in oil can? I agree that would be a bad idea for the solvent trap owners.

Just because these parts can be very easily misused doesn't make them illegal. Every see those tiny little pipes for sale at the gas station? I guess you could technically smoke the tiniest bowl of tobacco in the world, but its really for dope. Still legal, right up to the point you have dope.

I understand you don't like the solvent traps. I don't care for them either, but they are 100% perfectly legal and require real modifications to create a silencer. Discharging a firearm with a solvent trap and oil can affixed will not work. It will result in a very dangerous blast of gas and debris directed right into the face of the shooter.

 

[CoRoMo]

There is no reason to bring the water treatment straw man...

What are you talking about? I was referring to this guy's review: http://www.amazon.com/review/RSLJTUS2PAOMT/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

Legitimate use. Legitimate review.

...the ATF and NFA laws are not applied to parts used in waste water treatment plants.

Then WHY did you imply that these adapters are somehow illegal? After voicing your consternation at the sellers of these solvent trap adapters, you then said the only adapter that is not illegal is the Cadiz Gunworks product. That is not true and now you admit that this one isn't actually an illegal product after all. Which is it? It is not illegal to buy, possess, or use that adapter.

...these adapters are specifically being marketed for use with firearms.

That's not the same thing as being "specifically marketed" as an adapter to turn an oil filter into a suppressor. A shoestring can make a rifle run full auto, but shoestrings are not machinegun components until you use them as such. Your argument seems to imply that they are purposed for nothing else.

...you can say its used for cleaning.

If I did that, I'd only be repeating what the manufacturer says. Is a shoe string only used to turn a rifle into a bullet hose? Or might it have another, primary and intended purpose? Your second post here seems to get this, the first... not so much.

...you are using an un-serialized adapter, of which there is a serialized variety which the ATF has already weighed in on, to do the same thing.

Huh? The solvent trap adapters that Cadiz Gunworks offers, unlike their EconoCan, do not appear to be serialized;http://cadizgunworks.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&filter_tag=1/2x28&product_id=82 . Why would the adapter need to have a serial number? Like you said, it is not regulated by the ATF under the NFA.

Y'all want to say its all good and its not illegal but...

Are you confused? You, yourself stated that this is not a regulated item under NFA law! Why would you imply that it is, then it isn't, then it is again?

Also, i would be willing to bet from all the "nudge nudge wink wink" comments all over about them that there are a bunch of people already using them in an illegal manner, even if you say YOU specifically are not.

That's perfectly fine, and I'd agree. People might use cordless drills to run their BMF Activators, people might fit a piece of cardboard into the workings on their SKS, people might use a shoestring on the bolt of their M1A, and people might use this cleaning accessory to makeshift an unregistered suppressor. These plausibilities do not make cordless drills illegal, or BMF Activators illegal, or shoestrings, or cardboard, or solvent trap adapters illegal.

Just because these parts can be very easily misused doesn't make them illegal.

THANK YOU!!

 

[JustinJ]

Most folks use such catchers to capture patches that are pushed through the bore with a jag. Only an idiot would pull through the bore, anyhow.

I guess those "idiots" at Otis have no idea what they're talking about.