Some say a .380 isn;t enough

[BADUNAME37]

You could kill the intruder with a powerful BB gun or a pellet gun, if you shoot the bad guy in just the right spot.

As always, no matter what caliber you are shooting, shot placement is everything, then there is, well..........shot placement!

 

[Mayo]

Let me save you some time---don't cry

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast9mmv380a.htm

 

[Mayo]

As always, no matter what caliber you are shooting, shot placement is everything, then there is, well..........shot placement!
__________________

Exactly---now given shot placement being equal(shooting proficiency)--which caliber do you want?

 

[BADUNAME37]

Maybe a .380, maybe a ,38 or maybe something twice as large. Remember, though, when twice as large, many times it ends up sitting at home, especially during summer months when people are wearing thin and very little clothing.

In that case, I will take a Ruger LCP.

 

[John_galt]

Come on we can't stop now a just over +200 posts on a caliber war over .380? There will be no respect left for this forum if we can't get the post count over 500. I mean this is good stuff, lot really ....solid ........um kinda factual based .....opinion...........umm. Ok never mind, I didn't make it to the end of the first page and I couldn't take it anymore.

 

[easyg]

As for being obstinent why don't you answer my question as to what the advantage is to the 9mm in a small pistol like the R9, since 9mm and .380 have the same diameter bullet?

It's not just about diameter....it's also about penetration.
From a short barreled pistol the 9mm is still going to penetrate better than the .380, and be less affected by thick winter clothing.
Sure the 9mm will lose some velocity due to the short barrel (and thus penetration), but the .380 will likewise lose velocity, and penetration.

No matter how you try and spin it, the .380 is not a good self defense caliber.
The only reason to choose the .380 is if you just can't handle anything more powerful.
And I've never met anyone, of any age, of any stature, that couldn't shoot a 9mm just as well as a .380.

 

[BADUNAME37]

The only reason to choose the .380 is if you just can't handle anything more powerful.
And I've never met anyone, of any age, of any stature, that couldn't shoot a 9mm just as well as a .380.

Not TRUE!
I carry a .380 and I shoot a 4" 500 Magnum until the sheep come home.
Don't give me that "you can't handle anything more powerful" business.

 

[easyg]

Not TRUE!
I carry a .380 and I shoot a 4" 500 Magnum until the sheep come home.
Don't give me that "you can't handle anything more powerful" business.

So you can shoot 500 magnum from a heavy 4" revolver....


But can you shoot a 9mm para from a sub-compact pistol, and do so accurately at rapid fire?




If the answer is "no" then you are admitting that you can't handle the 9mm in a sub-compact pistol.

If the answer is "yes" then you really have no reason to chose the weaker .380.


Easy

 

[haslethandgunner]

Mayo,

Since you obviously are an expert on what fits every persons personal defense needs, would you care to investigate the relative size of a 9mm that has the same dimensions as my lcp (since it DOES fit in my pocket well). If you would share with me the make and model, I'll check into buying one this summer. Oh and while your at it, I would like one with a stronger recoil spring so I can get a good second shot off too. In the meantime, I'm going to continue to read these theoretical diatribes about whether a caliber that has been around for years, and has indeed stopped numerous incidences from going in the wrong direction, is effective at doing what it was intended to do....protect the owner.

 

[larryh1108]

But can you shoot a 9mm para from a sub-compact pistol, and do so accurately at rapid fire?

I can! I shoot my Kahr PM9 just fine and accurate during rapid fire. I guess 1500+ rounds thru her helped me get there. However, more often than not I carry my LCP because 9oz vs 15oz is a difference in many instances that suit me. It's my choice for my reasons and no one here will make me feel under-gunned or stupid for my choice. I also have a S&W M&P9c and a Taurus PT145 for small choices. It is my choice what I carry and why. I am very confident in my LCP up to 30'. Self defense is that. It is not a shootout where I go looking to shoot someone but it is there if someone wants to do harm to me or my family/loved ones in my vicinity. Outside of 30' I should have other options to get to safety. As long as I am packing I don't feel undergunned.

 

[Pyro]

The only reason to choose the .380 is if you just can't handle anything more powerful.

That's a terribly strong comment.
As I said before I carry a .25acp pistol, not because a 9mm, .40, .45 hurts my wittle hands but because I know the gun and have shot it plenty to feel confident in it. With my small frame that little .25 disappears.

If the answer is "no" then you are admitting that you can't handle the 9mm in a sub-compact pistol.
If the answer is "yes" then you really have no reason to chose the weaker .380.

Now your being childish.

As long as I am packing I don't feel undergunned.

I like this comment.

In the end it's all up to the carrier to decide what he or she is carrying.
What's the big deal with others getting their panties in a bunch when others carry calibers smaller then they are? When they ask about my .25 I just say I'm compensating for a big ****.

 

[LawofThirds]

Mayo's argument is simple. Since the 9mm is such a more powerful round, the first aimed shot should end the conflict, while the .380 is destined to empty its magazine in frustration as the bullets bounce off.

There's on average a mere 100 ft/lbs of energy difference between the two. If that means that the person using the .380 gets their second aimed round off faster (someone with a compact 9mm & .380 go figure that out, I bet it'd be a pretty decent difference), then the .380 is better most of the time. Remember, no round can be counted on giving a true one-shot stop unless it's out of a crew served artillery piece. At a certain size of gun, the .380 wins. Now if you want to compare full sized service pistols, then yes, the 9mm is the better option (but then it loses to .40, .45, .357 sig and 10mm). I will even say it wins at the mid-sized range.

For example: My wife can shoot both a compact 9mm and a .380 equally accurately. But her time between viable center mass hits in the 9mm is almost twice that of the .380. After all, aren't we oh so fond of saying "when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away"? I'd rather have a second bullet in the air in that situation than a single, slightly more powerful round. Which is, ironically, why I carry a .38 snubbie when it gets hot. I can get 3 158g SWCHP's moving at 1000fps downrange accurately in the same time as 2 115's.

 

[BADUNAME37]

What's the big deal with others getting their panties in a bunch when others carry calibers smaller then they are? When they ask about my .25 I just say I'm compensating for a big ****.

Amen.

 

[kev778]

Let me save you some time---don't cry

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast9mmv380a.htm

First off. I could care less what anyone cares to use for bullet caliber, etc. I feel if you can hit a target consistently within a 6 inch circle 10 yards and 25 yards away, you are going to severely hurt and or kill your "alleged" attacker. I use alleged because when you go to court the person that was wounded or killed will only be a perceived/alleged threat until proven otherwise (just some real life legal mumbo jumbo that everyone needs to be aware of before you pull that trigger)

As I digress, The article that was quoted here first off is from 2000. It is now 11 years old. So essentially well out of date considering all the new products that are coming out in the ammo arena. But based on that article I read that the .380 will potentially kill an attacker just as dead as the 9mm.

Further, let me pass on a few anatomy lessons that will prove what I just said as well as put to rest this perceived notion that bigger is better. (And oh BTW a 9mm is .355 inches and the .380 is well .380 inches.) LOL so there is your bigger is not necessarily better.

The heart rests roughly 1-1.5 inches behind a human's outer skin layer on their front chest cavity. That distance includes the breast plate/ribs. Knowing that, if you were to be shot with either you will surely be missing parts of your heart since the table stated that the shortest distance penetrated by the .380 was 6.02 inches. Clearly both are going to give you some heartburn. summary: both will kill

So stop with the bravado and start focusing and realizing that when you go to court your argument better have a lot of stats and proof as to why you drew and then fired on the alleged assailant. In the end that will be the only thing that matters when you are trying to prove your innocence. I know, I know what a buzz kill, but that will be the reality. So don't worry too much about how far your bullet will expand and penetrate just remember before you pull the trigger make sure you can't "run" first and if you can't run ask yourself will I be severely wounded or killed if I don't run. Then if you deduce you can't run then shoot and shoot a couple of rounds and remember "aim small, hit small" But know that the bullet that will be hitting the alleged assailant will most likely render him/her useless long enough for you to run safely away regardless of caliber or platform used.

 

[BADUNAME37]

So you can shoot 500 magnum from a heavy 4" revolver....


But can you shoot a 9mm para from a sub-compact pistol, and do so accurately at rapid fire?




If the answer is "no" then you are admitting that you can't handle the 9mm in a sub-compact pistol.

If the answer is "yes" then you really have no reason to chose the weaker .380.


Easy

I can shoot ANYTHING and EVERYTHING.
THERE.
I'm finished with your nonsense!

 

[Weevil]

Mayo, did you even bother to read the link you provided.


So for a short-barreled, concealment-size pocket pistol, all features of the guns being equal, which cartridge choice is best for personal defense, .380 or 9mm? Some have argued that in the very short barrels (in the 3.0- to 3.25-inch range) typically found on small pistols, the apparent ballistic advantage of the longer case 9mm is canceled and the two loads' performances are essentially the same. My own actual side-by-side testing doesn't prove that out. In fact, there really isn't very much of a contest at all. The 9mm wins hands down.

Post #196

Now in a larger pistol with sufficient barrel length that gives a good chance for the expansion of an HP I'll pick the 9mm over the .380 since as I already stated I only carry FMJ in .380s.

So does the R9 have a 3" barrel???

Does the R9 have sufficient barrel length to maintain the velocity for reliable expansion of HPs???

Your link is for larger 9mm's not the R9.

As I already stated I carry a P11 which fits perfectly with the link you provided but the R9 which you are so whipped on does not.



Your reading comprehension is almost as bad as your spelling.

 

[Mayo]

No ifs ands or buts---the 9mm is superior to the .380----if you can't accurately shoot a subcompact 9mm----then go with a .380. If you CAN accurately shoot a subcompact 9mm then why on earth would you go with a .380? As for the weight R9 is 13.5 oz and IF trouble strikes I'd rather have a 13.5 oz 9mm then a 10oz .380---but that's just me.

 

[Mayo]

My favorite quote from the article kind of sums it up

If your personal-defense handgun is going to be a small autoloader, and you are buying it because the chance exists that it may someday have to save your life, the choice between a .380 or a 9mm is still a no-brainer. Get a 9mm

 

[Mayo]

So does the R9 have a 3" barrel???

Yes

Pistol
Load
Bbl Length (in.)
EBL (in.)
Velocity (ft/sec)

Rohrbaugh R9
Fiocchi 115-gr. FMJ
3
2.25
978

Glock 26
Fiocchi 115-gr. FMJ
3.46
2.71
1180

Rohrbaugh R9
Win. USA 115-gr. FMJ
3
2.25
1072

Glock 26
Win. USA 115-gr. FMJ
3.46
2.71
1097

Rohrbaugh R9
Win. 115-gr. STHP
3
2.25
1047

Rohrbaugh R9
Federal 124-gr. HS
3
2.25
1054

Glock 26
Corbon 115-gr. DPX+P
3.46
2.71
1181

SIG-Sauer P225
Corbon 115-gr. DPX+P
3.86
3.11
1163

Browning Mk III
Corbon 115-gr. DPX+P
4.66
3.91
1244

Browning Mk III
Corbon 115-gr. JHP +P
4.66
3.91

 

[BADUNAME37]

That's nice, I'll stick with my 380 in my pocket holster.
Thanks but no thanks.

 

[verdun59]

Hold up guys, I going to get a beer......

 

[BADUNAME37]

Don't forget the urinal while you are away!

 

[Mayo]

That's nice, I'll stick with my 380 in my pocket holster

That's OK buckaroo---we won't think any less of you--I promise.

 

[BADUNAME37]

No, when I am playing the Buckaroo part, I am wearing my 500 on my hip with my Australian leather hat!

 

[easyg]

That's a terribly strong comment.
As I said before I carry a .25acp pistol, not because a 9mm, .40, .45 hurts my wittle hands but because I know the gun and have shot it plenty to feel confident in it. With my small frame that little .25 disappears.

A .25 ???
My friend, you could not have chosen a worse caliber for self defense.
I hope for your sake that you will never need to actually use it.

At a certain size of gun, the .380 wins....
I will even say it wins at the mid-sized range.

There is no logic to this line of thinking.
The .380 does not "win" over the 9mm para in any size handgun.
It's a much weaker caliber.
And when you compare it to 9mm +P ammo and 9mm +P+ ammo, the .380 is beyond dismal.

The heart rests roughly 1-1.5 inches behind a human's outer skin layer on their front chest cavity. That distance includes the breast plate/ribs.

Actually it lies deeper from the surface of the skin....about 3" deep depending upon how fat the person is.
And this is really only pertinent to a straight-on hit.
But most bad guys are not just going to stand there like a paper target at the range.
Most likely you will be shooting with your target at an angle, or even sideways.
The bullet might have to travel across the chest laterally, maybe even needing to penetrate the upper arm before even reaching the chest.
Measure from your outer shoulder to the mid-line of your chest....
Most adults will measure at least 10 inches, and on men with broad shoulders it can measure much more.
The .380 will not reliably provide this much penetration in a human body.

I can shoot ANYTHING and EVERYTHING.
THERE.
I'm finished with your nonsense!

Yeah, sure you can....and that's why you choose to carry a .380.