Somebody's got our backs

[idahoemt]

Tuesday night my two oldest boys and I camped out in the backyard for the first time. They had a blast, my back was killing me. At 8 and 6 I figure a little pain is a small price to pay to introduce them to camping and to have an opportunity to share some life lessons around the campfire.

Last night they wanted to do it again. A little pain, OK, a second night on the ground, no way. I still have my tent from my Boy Scout days, but my ground pad has gone AWOL and I didn't have an opportunity to buy a new one.

I thought about it and realized that about that age I was sleeping out in the backyard unsupervised. I decided(with my wife, being a mom, reluctantly agreeing) to let them sleep out there alone in my tent since mine had a rain fly and it was a little overcast.

We had a very frank discussion about what to do if a BG decided to make an appearance. Being 8, and having watched Pirates of the Caribbean and every Star Wars movie several hundred times , my oldest son has been saying things like "I'll whack him with my walking stick." and "I've got my knives, I can use those." I told them that the correct response from them was to yell and scream at the top of their lungs and get to the house anyway possible, together. I proceeded to tell them that they needed to bite, kick, scratch, gouge and basically do anything they needed to do to get away. I did not want to scare them, but I did want to reinforce the lessons we've been teaching them.

Well, we had a little campfire and roasted a couple of marshmallows and then it was off to bed for them. I got them into the tent and their sleeping bags, we said our prayers and then I went inside. I made sure the outside light was on and we had windows open all over the house so we could hear them.

Not five minutes went by and my youngest was in the house saying "He's scared.", referring to my oldest. They came inside and climbed in their own beds and I talked to my oldest telling him it was OK to be scared, that we all have fears and the important thing is to keep trying to face them even if we fail in overcoming them in the end. I told him we would camp out next week again with me out there.

OK, I am getting to the point, and this does relate to guns, bear with me.

About midnight my wife sits bolt upright in bed, panting. Sometimes a good thing, but not in this case. I'm only slightly less awake after hearing sirens and "pops" in the neighborhood. Just as I'm telling her "Calm down, honey. It's alright." he hear a thud followed by a grunt just below our bedroom window. Then a twig snapped. Oh crap. We're on the second floor so there isn't a chance that he can come in our window, but I've got to check it out. I start getting dressed and my wife says "Please don't go outside!" I of course, having approximately 20 metric tons of adrenaline flowing through me say "I have to! What the (expletive) do you expect me to do? I can't just stay in here and wonder what's going on out there."

Now, understand, I do not own a firearm of any kind yet, unless you include my Crosman and the oldest boy's Red Ryder, and I sure don't. So I'm fumbling around in the dark trying to be quiet and gathering weapons. My old U.S. Army survival knife and a flashlight are what I came up with.

As I'm getting dressed I can see lights flashing off the trees in the neighbor's yard. I said "Look honey, the cops are out there. I'll just go tell them what we heard so they can check it out." I left the knife and walked out the front door. I can see they've got cars all over the neighborhood at intersections. I approach by walking directly into the spotlight(the only approach possible) slowly, with my hands at my side. Out pops the officer with his hand on his sidearm. I explain what we heard. He thanks me. I go back home. Now that I think about it, I left my home unguarded and I won't do that again.

I got back to the house and I'm upstairs, peeking carefully out the window trying to see what I can see, which is nothing. The adrenaline rush is ebbing by now, but I'm still on guard. I go downstairs to the phone(gotta get one upstairs) and dial into Central to ask the folks I work with what's going on. They don't tell me anything (thanks) per protocol. I give them the same info I gave the officer. Back upstairs to wait some more. At one point I pointed out the officers' strategy to my wife, "You see honey, this tactic involves standing in one place until the BG eventually dies of starvation." Kidding, I know they had a perimeter on the guy and had to stay put, but no one so much as shone a flashlight down the side yard and it kind of frustrated me.

After about 10 more minutes the lights (cops', not mine) go out and I said "No (expletive) way. I didn't even hear a scuffle. They better have got him." Downstairs to peek out the front window and the officer is gone. No idea if they caught the BG or if he's gone, so I have to check. I went out and made a quick patrol of the yard. This time I've got my Maglight and a jack handle for protection. I'm still feeling a little underpowered, but the jack handle has more of a reach than my knife. The yard is all clear, but I had to check the tents left outside and that was pretty scary.

This is the second incident we have had here in the last 4 months. In April we had a drunk guy trying to pound through our door. Quick call to 911, cops showed up and introduced the guy's face to the asphalt. I was wishing I was armed for that one too.

All this to say two things.
One: Someone's got our backs. My boys were totally stoked to be camping by themselves. They weren't even upset when I was talking about self defense. However, my oldest boy got a bad feeling and they came inside. In our prayers last night I prayed "Lord, keep us all safe." and He did.

Two: The decision has been made. We will be getting a handgun. My wife and I will be taking classes in handgun fundamentals and I will probably get a CCW. Since we have little ones, the pistol will be secured, but at hand. I discussed with my wife last night (for some reason it was hard to sleep ) the fact that I should have stayed in the house and how the pistol would be used as a defensive weapon. If a BG wants to be in my yard, that's the cops' problem. If he wants in the house he becomes mine.

There's a Police Chief that's retiring in the area because he's got Lou Gehrig's and as part of a benefit for him there's raffle for a Browning Mark III 9mm. I've got tickets for the raffle this Saturday so that would be an awesome thing to win. If I don't, and the odds are never in my favor when it comes to raffles, the wife and I will be shopping. I've been eyeballing the XD-9 and the Taurus 24/7 in 9mm. My wife is petite and I'm not giant myself, so something with a grip we can both feel comfortable with is important. The class we are going to take gives us an opportunity to fire several different handguns so hopefully we find one we both like. It'll be tight purchasing a handgun at this point, but I plan on sucking up any and all overtime I can at work to make it happen.


Some lessons were learned last night, and I'm sure I'm missing some that could be learned. If you have any advice I invite your comments. Please be kind, I'm not wearing my asbestos underwear.

 

[Jac]

Shotgun. That's my advice. Yes, get a pistol (why stop at one? ), teach your wife and boys to shoot it. But, for creeps that go bump in the night, get a shotgun as soon as you can... maybe even before the pistol. You can get one cheaper (probably) than a pistol, and better for home defense.

Also, good job letting your sons camp out by themselves (even if it didn't work out this time)! That's not something you see real often these days.

 

[Berek]

I would recommend that you both get your CCWs. If you are away, leave the PDW home and, {insert non-denominational spirtual cool guy/gal here} forbid that something happens, depending on the laws in your area, your wife could be charged with possession if she is holding it when the LEOs show up. It happened here three times in the last two years.

For a GP PDW, a 9mm would be a good choice, but when she gets her CCW, let her pick one out. Many ladies of petite frame seem to like the .380ACPs.

Maybe a .410. No permit required, not much kick, cheap ammo, etc.

And, {insert non-denominational spirtual cool guy/gal here} forbid this happens again, just call the cops. 9-1-1 "Dial-A-Prayer" will have you on one line and them on the other.

If the incident is what woke your boys up and scared them, take 'em for an ice cream for doing the right thing. Kudos, boys.

 

[Spot77]

Thanks for sharing, and welcome to The High Road!

Sounds like you're on the right path. Since everybody will probably say this, I'll go ahead and get it out of the way: Consider a shotgun instead of a handgun.

It's considered a bit safer around the young ones, and a heck of a lot more accurate in the middle of the night under a stressful situation.


The next suggestion, if you're set on a handgun would be to consider a revolver. No jamming, no levers, switches and safeties to fumble with in the middle of the night. Pull trigger. Bang.

 

[Spot77]

See? Two people replied before i could even finish typing!

 

[MuzzleBlast]

Clearly you have given this a lot of thought. Since you express an intent to get training, a 9mm automatic is an excellent choice. If you and your wife were not intending to get training, a .38 revolver would be a better choice, being somewhat more simple to use for beginners. In any case, keep the gun secured from the young'uns, but also teach them about it and allow them to handle it under your close supervision. This reduces the "forbidden fruit" aspect for them. Make absolutely sure the gun is locked away when other peoples' kids are in the house.

That pretty much sums up the consensus of advice you will get here on the basic subject of home defense gun ownership.

 

[idahoemt]

Thanks for the advice. Regarding the shotgun, I have considered that, and it may be added to the armory as well. My thinking was a small gun safe under the bed is a secure place for a pistol while the shotgun would need to be in a larger gun locker. While I'm teaching the boys to respect firearms as tools, they are still boys and prone to be curious.

The boys came inside hours before this happened and as of this moment don't know it did happen. I don't want them "too" scared of sleeping outdoors.

As a young man I had a Ruger 10/22, a Sears 20ga. and a Marlin 30/30. So I was familiar with weapons. Unfortunately I bought into the hysteria of the last few decades and refused to buy my boys toy guns fearing they would try to "play" with a real one if they came upon it.

I have since come to my senses. I got in touch with the NRA and got a new card(Life member since I was 12 or so). I've started teaching my boys to be responsible with "tools". My oldest has several pocket knives he has acquired from various friends and family and we discuss the rules of safe handling and use. At our campfire I was telling them how fire is a tool and it needs to be respected and used properly.

The same type of lessons will be applied to firearms. My oldest got a Red Ryder for Christmas(courtesy of me ) but the stock is a bit long. He doesn't have good control over it so it sits in the closet waiting for him to grow a bit. I'm thinking about picking up a Buck for him since they seem to be a good deal smaller. He did very well at a Cub Scout event last year when he was at the rifle(BB) range and archery range. He was attentive and paid close attention to the range masters. It helped that he knew if he didn't, he wouldn't get to shoot.

It just saddens me that when I was their age, back in the 70's, I was sleeping out all the time and we didn't worry about BG's so much. I grew up in Auburn, WA. just about 20 miles south of Seattle and the BG's were certainly around, theyjust didn't seem to be around in such big numbers and they weren't so brazen. Maybe that's just the way I remember it, but you didn't hear so much about sexual predators and such. I like to think that's because they didn't live long in that day and age.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

First of all, if you get a handgun, get a CCW. Ideally, get a handgun and CCW for your wife, too.

Next, a handgun is not a home defense weapon. It is a carry weapon. When you are at home, you can have anything you like -- and the best choice is a shotgun.

Third, searching for the bad guy (or "house clearing") is a bad idea. You're likely to walk into an ambush. If you think someone is outside -- arm yourself, dial 911 and gather the family in the safe room. If he comes inside, keep the 911 connection and let him come to you.

 

[qlajlu]

If you and your wife were not intending to get training, a .38 revolver would be a better choice, being somewhat more simple to use for beginners.

Very good advice. Semi-auto pistols are excellent but better left to the initiated. Get some experience on your part first then you may want to consider a change or better yet, an addition of a semi-auto.

AND DON'T FORGET A PHONE EXTENSION UPSTAIRS!

Since it sounds like you have a fairly big yard, you might also consider a good 3 to 5 D-cell flash light.

 

[dracphelan]

Whatever safe you get, make sure it can be bolted securely to the floor or wall. Otherwise, if someone robs your place while you are gone, they could just make off with the safe. (This actually happened to a friend.)

 

[idahoemt]

All good advice thanks.

I know that looking for the BG was a dumb move. Truth be told I'm a bit of a coward, but I get fired up when the family is involved. I wanted the threat gone.

As far as the phone goes, I mentioned that to the wife last night. We'll be getting a cordless with three handsets so one can always be upstairs(split level house with three "levels". I know th ephone is one of the best weapons. I'm a 911 dispatcher and, at least in our area, responses to prowlers and burgs in progress are quick.

Like I said, some lessons learned. I'm not the most tactically savvy guy and looking for the BG and leaving the house were done based on adrenaline fueled instinct. Last night we discussed where she should go(boys' room with the baby or vice versa), and what she should take(phone) in the event someone gets in the house. I have a high ground position behind the chimney that offers cover and the ability to view anyone coming in the front or back door and gives me the ability to cover the stairs as well. Plan is to wait there until Law arrives. I was also reading the thread on "code phrases" and have been discussing that with her. She's taking it all well. We agree that discussions like this are not about paranoia, but preparedness. We just hadn't discussed things like this before. The last couple of incidents have made us realize we should.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

May I make one more suggestion? Cordless phones are very vulnerable -- when the electricity goes out, the cordless phones don't work. (I know -- I live in the hills where we have frequent outages -- and have to use an old-fashioned wired-in phone to call in the outage.)

Get a cell phone. Even expired cell phones can call 911.

 

[kikr]

Make a plan for response. I grab the shotgun and go to the hallway, fiancee grabs the pistol and phone and goes to the kids room, me and the dog cover the entrances, fiancee calls cops and gets help coming. Anyone gets past the dog has to deal with me, anyone gets past the dog and me has to deal with mommy protecting her son. Under no circumstances should you leave the house, cops dont know you from the BG, and it puts you in a tactical bad place if things go worse. Lights should be on outside from dusk till dawn. Doesn't have to be bright enough to land planes but atleast bright enough and placed to backlight anyone creeping around the yard. For a first gun(s) I recommend 12 ga Pump with reduced recoil loads, and either S&W 686 or Ruger GP100 revolvers. They are both .357 so you can practice with .38spc and load with .357mag or .38+P for defense. Get some tactical training. Use of cover, movement with a weapon or under fire, and learning how to communicate (and when) with the PD are invaluable. Good luck!

 

[idahoemt]

Just replaced the light bulb for the light in the side yard. I never even turn that one on at night. It's right above the outside door leading to the basement and we never use that door.

Edited to add: We just ditched our cell service to free up some money for bills. I gave one phone to a friend at work and we were going to donate the other to the Women's Shelter, but now I think I'll keep it upstairs.

 

[qlajlu]

Just replaced the light bulb for the light in the side yard. I never even turn that one on at night. It's right above the outside door leading to the basement and we never use that door.

Consider changing that light by putting it on a motion sensor and put flood lights there instead of a 100 watt bulb (The change-over is easily done and the guy at the hardware store can show you how). Any movement near that area will activate it in the darkness, it will not come on during the daytime. That may take some getting used to because small animals (cats, roaming dogs, etc) can activate it also. But it can serve as a warning and possibly scare off any intruders.

I'm a 911 dispatcher...

I would say it is time to get personally acquainted with the local LEOs. Ask around. Maybe you can get yourself invited to one of their range sessions. Of course, you would have to provide your own ammo, but it is not unheard of. From your logon name, I assume you are an EMT also. You probably already have friends wearing a badge.

 

[idahoemt]

I've met some of the local LEOs, but being a Fire/Med dispatcher I haven't spent much time talking with them. My mother-in-law's husband is LE for the Forest Service and he has the mindset that weapons in the home of civilians is a no-no. He worries about the boys and the chance that the gun would be taken away, so I don't hold that against him. His recommendation was to get a dog. Make's sense since he's a K9 officer. We're looking at that option as well.

 

[hso]

Some lessons were learned last night, and I'm sure I'm missing some that could be learned.

You're not going to like this, but you screwed up in just about every way and put your wife at risk of loosing her husband and ophaning those two fine boys.

Why did you leave the house? Why didn't you call the cops instead of going out to them? Why would you leave your family unprotected to do these things? Why couldn't you

just stay in here and wonder what's going on out there

?

A gun won't improve your situation much if you don't realize that the best thing to have done was get the family together and fort up and call for backup. If you go hunting goblins you just might catch one or be caught by one.

 

[idahoemt]

Hso, I do realize that. As I said, some lessons were learned. I was, to coin a phrase, "thinking with my nuts" last night. My ego combined with testosterone told me to do something foolish and I, like a fool, did it. :banghead: That's one of the reasons I posted this. I'm able to admit my mistakes and seek guidance in how to avoid making the same ones and new ones as well. I readily admit that I screwed up and take no offense to your saying so. Sometimes a smack upside the head is needed.

As far as hunting goblins, as I said, we are discussing what the proper course of action was and should be for future situations. I'm trying to learn to think defensively and act in the best interest of everyone involved. That's another reason I posted, to have others take a look at what happened and share their opinions on how I can do better next time.

 

[qlajlu]

Sometimes a smack upside the head is needed.

Well put, nuff said.

I do have to admit that I feel sorry for your mother-in-law's husband because of his Draconian thinking.

 

[idahoemt]

...because of his Draconian thinking.

I just took another look at what I typed and realized that I didn't state that very clearly. He isn't against civilian ownership of firearms, he just worries about "his boys" getting ahold of a gun and hurting themselves. he's also concerned about the possibility that I or my wife would fail to use it in self-defense and have it taken away from us. It's really more about his concern for our well being than an "us vs. them" mentality.

 

[hso]

idahoemt,

What's the layout of your house? I get the impression that you've got a 2 floor home and that the bedrooms are upstairs. Similar to mine. I have a central core with a set of stairs coming up to the second floor to a landing. I can control the way up the stairs from a door on the right of the stairs as they come up on the landing. This turns the stairs into a "fatal funnel" and the landing into a choke point. Regardless of how many people enter the first floor of the house only so many of them can fit on the stairs coming up to the second floor and I know every square inch of those stairs. In addition to this I can turn on the downstairs lights from my bedroom and still keep the landing in the relative dark. I keep a highintensity flashlight in the bedroom that will make you blink in full daylight, but coming up a flight of dimly lit stairs would rob you of any sight. I've also got a nice comfy chair that's just big enough to fit in the stairwell, but too big to fit in any orientation. It slides through the bedroom door easily enough, but is kind of tippy at the head of the stairs and should it fall would block the stairs at some point. It would be a problem to clamber across in a hurry for someone coming up the stairs. This is all to my advantage if I want to hold the pass until help arrives.

Is there a phone jack up stairs? If not you can run one yourself very easily. The point about cordless phones not working if the power's out is very good so I applaude you for keeping one of the out of service cell phones for emergency backup. If anything happens to it and it quits working let me know and I'll send one of our retired phones to you.

As to weapons, a shotgun or carbine firing down a set of stairs should be very effective.

 

[AJAX22]

I know its been said already,

but a cheap pump shotgun (think used mossberg 500) in 12 gauge probably is more effective for home defense and requires less training. you can probably find a decent one for around 150.

pistols are good to have and you should definitly get one in the future.

but birdshot in the hand is worth 9mm sometime in the future (or something witty like that)

a shotgun can take care of your immediate home defense needs, and let you buy a handgun at a more leisurly pace.

 

[idahoemt]

The house is actually kind of a tri-level. Bedrooms and bathroom upstairs, kitchen living room/dining room on the ground floor, and a finished basement with laundry room and bathroom downstairs. The bedrooms sit directly over the basement with the ground floor off to the side, if that makes sense. At the top of the stairs is a hallway, you turn either right or left. To the left takes you down to the bedrooms where the little ones are and that is also the direction the large stone fireplace is. Get past the fireplace and to your left is a railing that overlooks the living room and front door. From behind the fireplace I can cover the front door, the stairs and see into the kitchen where the back door is.

I've been thinking a shotgun might just be a better way to start. However, if I win the Browning, I'm keeping it.

We've also been discussing getting a dog. The boys have been wanting one for quite a while and we'd like one too. I'm not about to get a vicious mass of canine muscle with the boys and the baby in the house, but there are some nice companions/noise makers at the local shelter that I've been looking at. Aside from companionship and yet another way to teach the boys responsibility, a dog might just be a good early warning system/threat deterrent. My two oldest are quite comfortable with dogs having grown up around working K9s, but the baby would need some lessons in how to treat a dog "nice".

 

[hso]

Don't let anyone tell you that you've got to get some shutzhund contender for a good dog to help with the house. A mixed furball that will alert you to real trouble inside and out is enough to give the real predator of the house time to prep.

We've got a cockpoo that alerts on anything that gets within 10 feet of a door or window and will put up a serious "I sound 50 pounds bigger than I am" barking growl for anything at or in the door.

 

[rustymaggot]

ajax22, birdshot is better than nothing, but its really not good for hd. too many cases of a birdshot load failing to get past the ribs, and not stopping the threat immediately.