SOOO many new cartridges

[mgmorden]

Is it just me, or do they seem to be introducing new cartridges at a frantic pace lately? .30 TC, the WSM series, 6.5 Creedmoor, .375 Ruger, .300 RCM, 6.8 SPC, .300 Blackout, 6.5-300 Weatherby and I'm sure a ton of others.

Not really wildcats - these are all commercially loaded options. Maybe I'm just being naive but it seems like the pace on new cartridge introductions has really picked up within the last decade versus times prior.

I understand their problem - guns are an item that rarely wear out. If you combine all the used guns in circulation already it's hard to convince people to buy something new, but I can't see many of these at all catching on in the long run. Maybe 2 or 3 tops will have any staying power.

I just have this feeling that in 20-25 years we're going to have an absolute ton of rifles out there that there's technically nothing wrong with except that you can't find ammo for them.

 

[Captcurt]

Soooo many are ballistic clones.

For nearly every "New" cartridge there is an old one that is within 100-150 fps of it that has cheaper brass, and cheaper dies. Plus, they will still be around 20 years from now.

But, what do I know? I just bought a 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[theleo]

If you look at them close enough there's really to all that many new cartridges. The me new means that I can't just use cheaper old brass, run it through a sizing die, and fire form it to the chamber. The WSM's achieved a pretty good deal for the short action rifles, and can't be easily formed from any other older cartridge. The Weatherby is a necked down and blown out 300 H&H, the new Nosler rounds are necked down and blown out 375 Ruger. The only truly new cartridges in the past decade or two I know of are very few. Most of what we are seeing today is the recycling of old ideas and moving up or down of the size of bullets at the end of the cartridges.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

I think the 6.5CM will be here for a while, it is such a great .308 replacement (better balistics, same cost, less recoil, easy to find brass, and high quality match factory ammunition. The only cons (compared to the .308), are about half the barrel life and no surplus or cheap factory plinking rounds.

Still a .308 fan and is my prefered cartridge.

 

[yugorpk]

The 300 BLK has been around for 30 years or so as the 300 whisper. It wasnt until Ron Silvers at AAC and Remington wanted to commercialize it and ( Not Pay Royalties to JD Jones for his proprietary cartridge ) reinvented it as the 300 AAC Blackout and got SAAMI certification that it became commercially popular.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Long ago, I sat down and looked at what I need. Now I'll freely admit that "want" trumps "need" every time. But here's what I need.

Handguns:

.22 LR. Everyone needs a .22 pistol. If you don't know why, ask your mother.
.45 ACP. The ideal defensive cartridge.
.45 Colt. It will do anything the .44 Mag will do.

Rifles

.22 LR. Everyone needs a .22 rifle.
Varmint rifle. Here in the Ozarks, the .22 Hornet is fine. Farther west, a .223 would be ideal.
"Deer rifle." Townsend Whelen was right, "The .30-06 is never a mistake." It'll handle anything on this continent.

Shotgun

12 gauge -- ideally a Remington 870 with a 3" chamber.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Not like the 80's.

-Bench Rest (rifle and pistol)
-Hybrids
-One-offs hoping for secure manufacturer footing - think of all the pistol cartridges starting with a 4 in the 80's
-Writers trying to get their pet customs and loads accepted
-Ackley and other wildcats out the ying-yang and all vying to be taken seriously as the next:
30-06
9mm/.45/.357
.243
etc...


So many people trying to make rounder wheels and the magazines gushing over them in turn as "the next big thing".

"Ground breaking"
"Rule breaking"
"Breathtaking"

Nah... I say, "Sore Butt Making"!

Likely, every cartridge I'll ever own was old to the world when the first Bush was President... Hell, maybe Kennedy?... Truman?


Todd.


Todd.

 

[dirtykid]

.
.
That's why I chose 30-06 for this build,, Timeless cartridge, proven itself over and over.. Im gonna build another one just like it, only in .243... Not even an "AI" version of either, .. I think I can reload the 50BMG cheaper than some of these new cartridges..

 

[HoosierQ]

It's just the nature of this hobby. We would all probably get by perfectly well with 5 rifle cartridges, 3 pistol cartridges, and 2 revolver cartridges. Plus 22lr.

Few of us would need all those.

• .223/5.56
• something 6.5mm.
• something 7mm
• something .30 (probably .308)
• something big like .416, 458.

.

• 380
• 9mm
• .45acp

• .38/.357
• .44 spl and mag
  
  But what fun would that be?

 

[Speedo66]

The bad thing is every time the deer hear there's a new super double whammy intercontinental magnum cartridge, they refuse to die if you shoot them with an older, more traditional one.

At least that's what the reviewers would have you believe.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The bad thing is every time the deer hear there's a new super double whammy intercontinental magnum cartridge, they refuse to die if you shoot them with an older, more traditional one.

At least that's what the reviewers would have you believe.

As soon as the Super .300 magnums came out, .30-06s started bouncing off deer.

 

[jmr40]

Time marches on. Nothing wrong with developing and trying new ideas. If we hadn't done so we'd all still be hunting with spears. Each new idea is usually only a slight improvement over existing ideas and most fail. That is the same with any product. Thomas Edison developed over 10,000 light bulbs that failed before he figured out the right combination of components that worked. You don't stop trying.

But if we keep plugging away with new ideas and building on what we know there will be something truly better come along.

Most of the best developments in my lifetime have been in powder and bullet technology. Old standby's such as the 30-06 are better than ever. Modern 243 bullets will now do the same jobs we used to think a 30-06 was needed for.

And the new cartridges really are better. Not enough in most cases for a guy my age to stop using my trusted guns. But new generations of shooters will adopt them. As much as I like a 30-06 I'd not recommend one to a new shooter. There are better options in 2016.

 

[ontarget]

So that's the problem. All along I thought I was missing those deer. Wow I'm glad it wasn't me.

 

[jmorris]

The 300 BLK has been around for 30 years or so as the 300 whisper. It wasnt until Ron Silvers at AAC and Remington wanted to commercialize it and ( Not Pay Royalties to JD Jones for his proprietary cartridge ) reinvented

That JD Jones reinvented from the 300-221 and 300 fireball...

Yeah there is "new" stuff, if you don't sell things you go out of business. Lots of useless things sell every day as do some more useful items.

 

[sirgilligan]

The 26 Nosler and the 28 Nosler. I guess they will be around as long as Nosler is around.

As for the new cartridges I think the 6.8 SPC and the 6.5 Grendal will fade away.
I think the 6.5 Creedmoor is here to stay. Finally the U.S. market is accepting a 6.5. The 6.5 Swede has been around for ever but it has never been widely adopting. For some reason the 6.5 Creedmoor has broken out. I think it will put lots of pressure on the sales of .243 and .270.

As for pistol, I wish the 327 Federal Magnum would have caught on more.

 

[TruthTellers]

Out of that list, the only one that I like is the 6.5 (Apollo) Creedmore, which is the only "new" cartridge that I find has a clear purpose that has a advantage over other cartridges for the desired purpose.

Now, I'm not saying I dislike having new cartridges as it's innovation that drives the industry and gives the consumer more options that fit their wants/needs. I'll look at that list and see 6.8 and .300 BLK and say, they're both the same, except one can be loaded with subsonic rounds and be a good, quiet performer.

Here's the fact of the matter though: so can .223 Rem and .308 Win. I see no need and have no want to involve myself with 6.8 or .300 BLK until they are adopted by the military, at which point the price will drop and make it a viable option. Until that happens, the 50 year old .223 and 60 year old .308 have worked for a while now and continue to.

New cartridges are good in helping fill performance holes that others can't do, but unless it's some potential and clear advantage over others, and is also no $2/round, I'm not interested.

Now, if somebody wants to be elevated to shooting sainthood, somebody make a centerfire, straight walled .22 LR that's centerfire and reloadable.

 

[JRWhit]

Speaking of which, I just ran a cross the .22 TCM.
I'd be lying if I said I didn't immediately think about how much I would like it in a rifle.

 

[JimKirk]

Grab a copy of P.O. Ackley's book "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders: Volume 1 ".... then you'll see just how many "new" cartridges are out there ... Oh it was printed in 1962 ...

 

[Txhillbilly]

The 6.5 Creedmoor isn't new,it's been on the market for 8 years.

 

[Casefull]

I agree about there being lots of new cartridge solutions to nonexistent problems. One could also surmise that this thread is a lot of old guys bitching about changes that seem silly to them.

 

[JRWhit]

One could also surmise that this thread is a lot of old guys bitching about changes that seem silly to them.

Goes without saying, what's ur point?

 

[mgmorden]

One could also surmise that this thread is a lot of old guys bitching about changes that seem silly to them.

Meh - I'm 34. I guess in some circles that could be "old" but usually not among gun owners . It just seems like most useful ranges of rifle performance are already covered.

I mean, admittedly 6.5 Creedmoor looks potentially interesting to me, but it doesn't do anything new compared to 6.5x55. Heck if we're being honest there's a whole group of cartridges - those two, .260 Remington, 7mm-08, 7mm Mauser, .257 Roberts, .25-06 that are all just about in the same ballpark of capability.

It doesn't even seem like we're doing the "Super duper magnum" thing anymore - a lot of the new stuff isn't really magnums. It's just a bullet at similar speeds to something already out there just loaded into a case with a different geometry so that it needs a different (new) rifle.

My main thing though is that many of these I just don't see catching on, just like some others. .225 Winchester, 7-30 Waters, .35 Remington - there are a lot of more or less "abandoned" cartridges out there that are very hard to find ammo for (not impossible - just difficult). To me it just seems like there have been a particularly lot of them in the last 10 years or so. Maybe that's not the case though as I haven't really been around the gun world for the introduction of most of the old mainstays.

 

[Newtosavage]

I just have this feeling that in 20-25 years we're going to have an absolute ton of rifles out there that there's technically nothing wrong with except that you can't find ammo for them.

How about now? I bought a 7x57 Mauser - still one of the finest and most relevant hunting cartidges of all time - and you can barely find ammo for it anymore.

There are very few things you can improve about the 7x57. Same could be said for about 10 other rounds. But marketing took over the US in the mid-1900's and they figured out just how gullible and uninformed the average consumer is. So they take advantage of it.

6.5 Creedmoor is a great round for example, but what does it do that the venerable 100 year-old 6.5x55 does not? Nothing really.

Anyway, that's just my "old fashioned" take on things. I still laugh and shake my head at the black rifle .223 phase everyone is going through. WTH is the .223 good for? Very little IMO. Particularly with FMJ bullets. But try telling that to everyone who is ate up with "building" an AR and shooting "cheap" inaccurate FMJ's.

Again, just my take.

 

[ROAshooter]

"Now, if somebody wants to be elevated to shooting sainthood, somebody make a centerfire, straight walled .22 LR that's centerfire and reloadable."

will NEVER happen...

just imagine...the frustration of crawling around the floor to recover....22lr..centerfire to reload...mixed in with all the other rim fired 22......

who here would want to try and handle a 22lr case/bullets in to a reloading press????....the headaches would just be neverending......

 

[yugorpk]

I'll look at that list and see 6.8 and .300 BLK and say, they're both the same, except one can be loaded with subsonic rounds and be a good, quiet performer.

Here's the fact of the matter though: so can .223 Rem and .308 Win.

Except for the fact that they really can't be loaded for full function subsonic use. All the stars have to be together to get .308 subs to run in a semiauto and then only if you don't try to pull out a mag of subs and slap in a mag of standard pressure ammo. Bad mojo happens. Same with the .223. It "can" be loaded subsonic but then its basically a .22lr and again cycling issues. The 300 BLK on the other hand can be loaded subsonic by a trained chimp with no changes to the gun for it to work 100% subs and super. It uses .223/5.56 brass and any bullet that will run in the 308 will run in the 300 including cast lead with no problems. I'd even argue that the 200+ grain bullets run better in the 300 than in the .308. Most of the rounds most of us shoot are not out past 100 yards. For short range play and work its an excellent cartridge and for a reloader its a dream cartridge that can use everything from traditional rifle powders to fast pistol powders . Put ten grains of H110 in a .308 behind a 240 grain bullet and youve either got a dud or a bomb. The same thing works great in a 300 BLK because of the small cartridge with bullets longer than the case. All kind of powders work with varying bullet bullet weights because the bullet acts as a very efficient space limiter. For a large quantity reloading shooter who like to knock out 400-500 rounds per shooting session its a wonderful cartridge.