Source for Saiga .223 magazines?

[BCCL]

Probably going to buy a Saiga .223 in the next week or so, after knocking around several ideas, they seem to be the best "affordable" .223 semi-auto.

Done a little searching, and haven't seemed to find that many aftermarket 20 rd magazines???

 

[Black92LX]

Do a search for Surefire Saiga Magazines you will find quite a few sellers.
Remember that you have to swap out a few of the Russian Parts for American parts to use hicap mags to be 922 compliant.
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/saiga.aspx

 

[Expertowgunner]

i know for a fact that the saiga 223. has 30 rd mags made by surefire and i think pro mag makes some too. the only reason i havent bought a saiga is due to price of aftermarket mags and quality as well is a concern (ive seen a surefire mag returned to the shop after the feed lips broke on it). Best thing ive seen is to have a gunsmith install a bullet guide and have it take golani or galil mags. good luck to you

 

[Expertowgunner]

i thought it was the exact opposite black, i thought you would have to install MORE american parts if you use a russian mag. im probably wrong anyway that parts compliancy bs is enough to make my head spin.

 

[Black92LX]

I think you are misreading my post the Russian parts must be replaced American parts. Therefore you are adding American parts.

It does not matter where the magazine is made for hicaps you must have enough American made parts.
In my case a Russian hicap mag would not be legal but a US made one is and a Russian 10 rounder is legal.
Using a hicap mag no matter it's country of origin is illegal in a factory Saiga. Since a mag is 3 parts using American hicap mags just means you have to swap out less parts in the actual gun. So with parts I swapped I can only run American Hicaps or the Russian 10 rounders.

 

[DMK]

I'm going with Bulgarian Waffle mags on mine. Only mods needed are to remove the tab at the rear of the magwell and add a bullet guide. Original Saga mag will still work too.

No matter what hicap mags you use, you need 5 US made parts (6 if you add a muzzle device). 3 of those parts could be in your mags if you prefer, but Bulgarians don't cost any more than Surefires (usually cheaper in fact) and seem like they are a lot more robust. If you use a US made trigger set to do your conversion as most folks do, you only need two more parts and you'll also need a new butt stock and pistol grip anyway, so you could buy US there and call it done.

 

[sv51macross]

There is also the Magnolia State Armory magwell adapter that lets you use STANAG 5.56 mags in your Kalashnaclone.

 

[christcorp]

Actually, the saiga has 14 countable foreign parts. If you want to use "evil" parts, such as a hi-cap (>10 rounds), then you need to reduce the foreign parts to 10 or less. A surefire magazine is american and counts as 3. If you replace the stock or the forehand grip with an american, like a tapco for around $40; then you've got your 4 american parts and brought your foreign down to 10. You are legal.

As to where to get 30 round magazines, surefires are the best. Promag is ok, except the built in bullet mag is too tall and will snap off. You need to trim it down. There is a lot of info over at the saiga forum. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?act=idx If you want surefire magazines, which is what I recommend, you can get them for $28 a piece (Compared to $39 a piece). Go to mississippi arms http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/...th=274&zenid=1d8b242b69eba1f529d109d104ab2352 . FWIW; the saiga .223 is a fantastic rifle. For the money, 1/2 of the price of an AR-15 with the reliability of an AK. And it's ALL new parts, manufactured at the russian plant that is also making the military ak-47.

 

[Girodin]

There is also the Magnolia State Armory magwell adapter that lets you use STANAG 5.56 mags in your Kalashnaclone.

I would not go ordering that part. It is a quality part by most accounts, the problem is that you may never see it. MSA has had some serious problems and there is no indication that they are up and running, although their website (last time I checked) was still accepting orders. Google should turn up more details for those interested.

 

[DMK]

Actually, the saiga has 14 countable foreign parts.

Only because it doesn't come with a pistol grip or muzzle device. If you add these, then you need to increas your US parts count. Most people (although certainly not all), at least add a pistol grip and stock as two of their US parts and the trigger set as the other three and then you have a traditional AK configuration and you could use mags from any country.

If you want to keep the original sporter stock/grip then US mags (3 parts) and a US gas piston would also work to keep you under 10 imported parts.

 

[DMK]

Quote: "There is also the Magnolia State Armory magwell adapter that lets you use STANAG 5.56 mags in your Kalashnaclone."

I would not go ordering that part. It is a quality part by most accounts, the problem is that you may never see it. MSA has had some serious problems and there is no indication that they are up and running, although their website (last time I checked) was still accepting orders. Google should turn up more details for those interested.

There's a guy named renegadebuck that haunts the AK files, Saiga-12 and TheAK.net forums. He makes an adapter like this also. I'm not sure how they compare. Do your research if you're in this market.

I have the MSA adapter and it looks very nicely made, but I haven't worked up the nerve to do the machining to install it yet. In fact I'm actually debating on whether to just sell it and put the money into Bulgarian Waffles.

 

[BCCL]

Remember that you have to swap out a few of the Russian Parts for American parts to use hicap mags to be 922 compliant.
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/saiga.aspx

This is the gun, and I plan to leave it as it is, so do I still need to change parts just to use a 20rd magazine? I don't live in any of the place listed at your link.

 

[BCCL]

PS, If I just stick to 10rd mags, I don't have to do any of this stuff right?

 

[Black92LX]

The 922 (r) compliance stuff can be quite confusing.
Just using standard 10 round magazines your gun is legal. If you want to use (US Made) Hi cap mags you must swap out one Russian Part for that of a US made part. Easiest being the handguard. (Tapco makes a direct bolt on). The Saiga rifle in stock form comes with 14 Russian (imported) parts. To be legal for hi caps you must get that number to 10. A magazine counts as three of those (body, floorplate, follower). So just throwing in the US made mag you still have 11 imported parts that number needs to be 10. So one other from the list needs to be swapped. Again the handguard
Here is an automatic checklist just uncheck what you have swapped out with a US made part. Once you reach compliance it will tell you.
http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

For mine I added the Tapco Pistol Grip/ buttstock and use US made Magazines making me compliant. I also have a foreend on the way only reducing the number of Russian Parts.

If you want to use cheaper high cap mags you can install a bullet guide
http://dinzagarms.com/saiga_223/saiga_223.html
then you will be able to use Tapco (US made) AK47 mags and they run about half the price of Surefire Mags and are proven reliable.

But remember you will have to add one US Made part off the list from the gunwiki list.

 

[BCCL]

Thanks, that helps a lot. I wasn't aware of this 922r stuff. The last center fire import I owned was an SKS in the early 90's.

 

[wally]

I have the MSA adapter and it looks very nicely made, but I haven't worked up the nerve to do the machining to install it yet. In fact I'm actually debating on whether to just sell it and put the money into Bulgarian Waffles.

Maybe something has changed recently, but on my Saiga .223 I would have had to relieve the front trunnion to use the Bulgarian circle 10 waffle mags -- maybe not as much as for the MSA AR mag adapter, but I opted for Galil mags as the Orlites were cheap and plentiful back then.

--wally.

 

[DMK]

Maybe something has changed recently, but on my Saiga .223 I would have had to relieve the front trunnion to use the Bulgarian circle 10 waffle mags

Mine's an '09 model, so maybe something did change.

However, I decided to go with the Bulgies after seeing a bunch of posts of the Saiga-12 forum about how easy it was to make them work. I bought one to try and sure enough, it was just a matter of removing the rear tab. Well, actually, I also did have to file down my mag catch too, but I'm using a regular Romanian AK trigger guard / mag catch assembly. It wouldn't latch even the original Saiga mag until I modified it. I don't know if the original Saiga latch needs any massaging.

I'm still waiting on my bullet guide to come from Dinzigs, so I can't comment on how they feed, but I haven't read any complaints about that either.

Here's one thread on the subject at Saiga-12 that a quick look turned up:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=35857

 

[wally]

Mine's an '09 model, so maybe something did change

Those Ruskie's are learning Capitalism! My Saiga 12 didn't have the square cut out for the pistol grip nut, newer ones all appear to. They appear to be doing what they can to help us

--wally.

 

[DMK]

Those Ruskie's are learning Capitalism! My Saiga 12 didn't have the square cut out for the pistol grip nut, newer ones all appear to. They appear to be doing what they can to help us

Both my .223 and .308 (both '09s) had the square PG nut hole and the hole for the trigger once I dremmeled off the sporter trigger guard and plate.

I don't know if they are doing it to help the conversions. I think they are just simplifying their production rather than making special recievers just for the US.

 

[NY'er]

DMK, if you do decide to sell the adapter would you let me know? The problems they've been having are why I've been hesitant to place an order, though being from NY it sure would make life easier to have one!

Thanks!!!