Southern Illinois "CCW Myths"

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BhmBill

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Want to read a huge load of crap? Vague, fear playing, statistics twisted, etc.

http://www.siude.com/voices/letter-debunking-concealed-carry-myths-1.1597708

Letter: Debunking concealed carry myths
Letter to the Editor

Ty Holden

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Published: Thursday, March 5, 2009

Updated: Thursday, March 5, 2009

Dear Editor:

Now that the concealed carry legislation is being awarded a massive amount of coverage and all of the gun-rights advocates are coming out in favor of this crime against humanity, it is time to rip off their Second Amendment security blanket and educate them with unbiased, correctly interpreted statistics and with basic logic.


Nothing illustrates the errors in reasoning that concealed carry supporters have better than the name of legislation: The Family and Personal Protection Act. The huge myth that this title attempts to spread is that carrying concealed weapons leads to the protection of anyone when it in fact does the opposite. In total, 48 states have passed concealed carry laws all in the name of protection. And what sort of protection have these laws brought? According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, 34 of the 35 states with the highest crime rates have concealed carry laws on their books. If either Tennessee or South Carolina, which both have legalized concealed carry, were their own country, they would have the highest murder rate in the world. Wisconsin, the only state besides Illinois not to pass such laws, has one of the lowest crime rates in the country.


Furthermore, advocates for turning this country into some sort of gun utopia fail to recognize the possible consequences for passing laws such as the Family and Personal Protection Act. What happens when two people get in a fight at a bar and one legally has a gun on him? What about the police officer who has to worry that the person he just pulled over, or the drunk he is chasing down the street is carrying a deadly weapon? And what most people do not recognize is that most concealed carry laws also include the Castle Doctrine, which allows people to defend their property with deadly force. Under this mindset, a person could theoretically shoot someone who is stealing a lawn chair from them. Do petty thieves actually deserve to die? I guess 48 states think it is alright as long as it is the citizens doing the killing ... let’s not become the 49th.


To see FBI crime reports, visit http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/violent_crime/index.html.


To view FBI state crime rates http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_05.html.


For worldwide crime rates, visit http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita.

Ty Holden
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just a big ol' pile of LOL for me.

Do petty thieves actually deserve to die?
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Sure wouldn't want to lower the crime rate or hurt anyones feelings or anything, ya know?
 
He's in the 4% minority whose leaders don't consider them responsible enough to have a constitutional right, the same leaders who are being caught for fraud, and he thanks them and supports them from keeping him helpless?
 
He's in the 4% minority whose leaders don't consider them responsible enough to have a constitutional right, the same leaders who are being caught for fraud, and he thanks them and supports them from keeping him helpless?
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I did not understand it either. I really truly just do not understand it. I can't wrap my head around it.
 
I'd bet a lot of money the author of that letter is a student from Chicago attending SIU. Trust me, the Southern Illinois area is very pro-CCW. In fact, a lot of Southern Illinois counties had resolutions on their April ballots several weeks ago asking voters whether they favored CCW, and the voters overwhelming voted in favor of CCW (the vote has no legal effect; think of it as an officially sanctioned public opinion poll).

The young people in the Chicago area have been so brain-washed by the media and their politicians there that they honestly believe the crap in that letter.
 
I wonder how he explains Vermont and New Hampshire, with two of the most open and longest-standing CCW laws in the country and just about the lowest violent crime rates around?
 
He's also a liar or just can't read statistics properly; I know here in SC we have a fairly low homicide rate and most violent crime is in the major cities and is typically gang-related.
 
The Daily Egyptian, the student-run newspaper of SIUC
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It's an op/ed piece in a student newspaper. It warrants an analysis and deserves calm refutation by readers, but it's not like this puppy is publishing in Time or Newsweek a major media source.
 
Author doesn't even fully inderstand the law that he is bashing.

He said something along the lines of "two people get in a fight in a bar and one of them legally has a gun"

That's actually illegal. (At least it is where I live)

Do research before talking ish
 
Mista Cy said:
Author doesn't even fully inderstand the law that he is bashing.

He said something along the lines of "two people get in a fight in a bar and one of them legally has a gun"

That's actually illegal. (At least it is where I live)

Do research before talking ish
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And the difference in them getting in a bar fight and illegally having a gun would be .... ???
 
I've got family all over this area and my late father graduated from SIU Carbondale High School. The university actually had its own high school years ago and the teachers were full professors.

Southern Illinois is a different state than the rest. Basically anything North of I70 is considered the Chicago Metro area to them. This op-ed writer's either a Chicago student or from the St. Louis area.
 
Southern Illinois University at Carbondale is not immune from the same liberal bias that infects most of the other institutions of higher learning in this country. The fact that it's located in Shawnee National Forest doesn't mean a thing.

The have a serious deer problem on campus, it's so bad that people are actually attacked by deer almost every Spring (a search of my posts should bring up a thread with news articles on the deer attacks) yet nothing has been done to reduce the deer population on campus.

SIU-C also has a large number of foreign students from not so free areas of the world. I don't know why anyone would be shocked to see this in a campus newspaper.

After all the kids have to have something to do since the city and school got together a few years back to shut down the annual riot that used to happen in downtown Carbondale every Halloween. Now they close campus for a week and clear the dorms at that time of year.
 
I wonder how he explains Vermont and New Hampshire, with two of the most open and longest-standing CCW laws in the country and just about the lowest violent crime rates around?
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Likewise, I wonder how he explains Chicago, which has a ban on handguns and has the highest murder rate in the country.
 
Southern Illinois is a different state than the rest. Basically anything North of I70 is considered the Chicago Metro area to them.
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Actually, the further you get from cook county, the more gun friendly the state is. It doesn't really matter wich direction you go.

If Illinois would secede from Chicago and Cook county, It would would be as American as most other states.

At the moment, there are far too may Chicago politicians controlling our state.
 
I live about 15 minutes from SIUC....Ty Holden is pretty much just like the rest of the folks at the Daily Egyptian and a significant part of the SIUC faculty & students.

Liberal to the core and praying for the nanny state to take over and care for them.
 
Another proud product of our public school system who graduated without basic reading comprehension or critical thinking skills.
 
I wasn't aware SIUC was like this (should of known better than to expect anything decent come from just about any college campus).

It's amazing how someone can argue that defenselessness is the answer. Just roll over and take it and the crime rate will drop.
 
I do hate to put it quite this way, but Mr. Holden's reasoning is weak and his knowledge of the facts is highly erroneous.

Let's take it item by item:

"Forty-eight states have passed concealed carry laws"--try to get a permit in New Jersey

"Thirty-four of the thirty five states with the highest crime rates have concealed carry laws on their books"--(1) in Maine, it's pretty easy to get a CCW permit, but the crime rate is very low; compare with New Jersey (the law is "on their books" but try to get a permit, and look at the crime rate--it even affects auto insurance rates across the river in parts of Pennsylvania). (2) Which came first, the crime or concealed carry? Florida started permitting concealed carry years ago because crime was high; has the rate gone up? (3) Look a little deeper into the facts--which is a safer place to walk at night, Columbia, MO ("shall issue"), or the District of Columbia (no issue)?

"Wisconsin, the only state besides Illinois not to pass such laws, has one of the lowest crime rates in the country"--Nice place to live and visit. The legislature has passed bills to legalize concealed carry more than once, but they have been vetoed. They do have open carry. But go to Door County--do you think it's peaceable because of the CCW prohibition? If so, why, oh why, doesn't that work in Cook County, IL?

"What happens when two people get in a fight at a bar and one legally has a gun on him?"--Can't happen, because one could not legally "have a gun on him" under the proposed law in Illinois or in most other states, but the passage of the law would not really change what happens in bar fights in Joliet today, would it?

"What about the police officer who has to worry that the person he just pulled over, or the drunk he is chasing down the street is carrying a deadly weapon?"--That's a serious issue; traffic stops are very dangerous. And Illinois' current prohibition on concealed carry is really, really reducing that danger, isn't it?

"And what most people do not recognize is that most concealed carry laws also include the Castle Doctrine, which allows people to defend their property with deadly force."--Two serious misconceptions here. First, The linkage between the castle doctrine and concealed carry laws isn't there; Wisconsin has a castle law but does not permit concealed carry, and so, in fact, does Illinois.Second, neither the purpose nor the effect of such laws is to allow people to "defend their property" with deadly force--it is to codify that the unlawful entry, usually with force, of an occupied dwelling establishes the presumption that the occupant is in imminent danger of death or serious injury and can therefore defend himself. The concept of self defense goes back to the English Common Law and in this country, it further derives from the natural right of self preservation ("...inaliable rights; among these are life...").

"Under this mindset, a person could theoretically shoot someone who is stealing a lawn chair from them."--Not under Castle Laws. There is a law in Texas that permits one to use deadly force to prevent the unlawful taking of tangible., moveable property if there is no other way, as long as the theft occurs between a half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise. I don't happen to like it, but it is not part of the Texas code on castle doctrine, nor does it have one whit to do with concealed carry.

By the way, the violent crime rate for Carbondale, IL, where SIUC is located, and where concealed carry is not permitted, is 33% higher than that of the state of Illinois, and 57% higher than that of the nation as a whole, which of course is influenced by the statistics of all of the states that do permit concealed carry.

I hope this proves useful. Forum members are free to use this.
 
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I graduated from SIU, Carbondale, in 1974 and I don't remember the area being liberal at all. There are many farms in the area and can't imagine any liberals owning them and I knew some of the farm families personally. I also worked at the Daily Egyptian and interned at the Southern Illinoisan as a photographer, and while in many parts of the country many people were anti war (I being a Vietnam vet), I never felt any animosity from anyone I knew while attending school there or working in and around the area. This I admit was a long time ago. Hopefully, things haven't changed too much.
 
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