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Spend My Money - .308 Carbine

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Oh good call, I had forgotten about the Saiga too. What do you guys think of the SGL21-62? I know a lot of people were raving over SGL21s when they were around $500. KVAR has em for $799 these days, (manufactured by Arsenal, IIRC)...

I was lookin at those a few months back, just figured I'd hold off on it. It's not like I'm picking out my last gun here, just my next one. lol

I think that might work. It's chambered for 7.62 NATO though. Would firing .308 Win be a problem?
Click to expand...

Arsenal SGLs are chambered in 7.62X39, not 7.62 NATO, so no they won't fire .308 Win. If you want a .308 in the AK line you'd need to buy a saiga .308.

You should also look at the Romanian PSL. That's chambered in 7.62X54R which is just fine for deer. Atlantic Firearms was carrying them for around $700 and Waffern Werks has even done a carbine length version although that one will be harder to find. I've seen people get the kind of accuracy you're looking for out of both of those and they've got the legendary AK reliability behind them.
 
I'd go with either the FAL or the M1A. The DSA FAL is one REALLY nice rifle, but if you'd rather not spend that much, Entreprise makes good FALs for much less, they just aren't finished as nicely as the DSAs.

If you want to go the M1A route, the SOCOM (the one with a short "scout" rail as opposed to the ugly mass of rails on the front) is an excellent rifle. Throw an aimpoint on the front and you'll be ringing 100 and 200yd gongs all day.

FAL mags are probably a bit cheaper than the M1A mags at around $20 (important if you are planning on getting any quantity).
 
If you want to go the M1A route, the SOCOM (the one with a short "scout" rail as opposed to the ugly mass of rails on the front) is an excellent rifle. Throw an aimpoint on the front and you'll be ringing 100 and 200yd gongs all day.
Click to expand...

Or you could just get the Scout Squad which lacks the side rails altogether, balances better, and has better irons. Then you can ring 100 and 200 yd gongs just as easily without having to buy a red dot.

This is a little .22lr silhouette that a friend and I were lighting up from 181 yds with my Loaded with irons:
IMAG0142-1.jpg

Don't underestimate the best iron sights ever put on a battle rifle. The M14 don't need a red dot, but if you must have one, you can still put it on the Scout and have your irons too. I suppose you could even co-witness them if you really wanted to. I'm just not a big fan of the SOCOM. They don't balance as well as the standard or the scout, and almost everyone that I have talked to that owns one and shoots past 100 yds has told me that the XS sights on the SOCOM are pretty miserable for anything other than short range. And if you're okay with being limited to that range, IMHO, you might as well get a Ruger Mini-30 or an SKS or something and save some money.

JMHO, YMMV.

Jason
 
I own both Scout & SOCOM great rifles but if I have to pick one it would be the Scout. It a compromise between the SOCOM and the 22" version. The FAL it's my next big rifle purchase after Christmas.


"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"- Benjamin Franklin
 
DPMS oracle
16" .308 carbine.
or if you want to spend some and get something in 18" id get a REPR or SASS from dpms.
their mags arent too badly priced either.
 
Mini-30 major accuracy issues?

The new model Mini-30s, with the heavy barrels, don't have major accuracy issues.

They are probably about a 2 MOA or maybe 3 MOA rifles. Not horrible, but not good, either. With an accustrut, they become between a 1 MOA to 2 MOA gun. Th accustrut also seems to help to keep the groups "tight" when the barrels heat up.

These guns are accurate enough for defense and hunting. Sure there are guns that are more accurate, but the Mini-30s can be bought in an all stainless configuration. No Aluminum or no carbon steel. These guns are all stainless. They are easy to strip, easy to clean, and pretty darn sturdy. They are tougher than guns with a lot of aluminum and they are more rust resistant than most rifles.

Minis are also viewed as sporting rifles. Even countries like Canada, that seem to have problems with just about every gun, don't have problems with Minis.

To me, I'd take a stainless, synthetic Mini-30.

By the way, the bore diameter on these guns is not set up for the cheap Russian ammo. I've heard that the bore diameter on these guns is built for use with .308 ammo, not the standard 7.62x39 russian ammo.

That might be why some folks have a hard time shooting these accurately. The thicker, 7.62x39 bullets are probably getting deformed when they are forced down the barrel. A deformed bullet won't be as accurate as an intact one.

I plan on getting one of these and loading my own ammo.

Just my $0.02.
 
The new model Mini-30s, with the heavy barrels, don't have major accuracy issues.

They are probably about a 2 MOA or maybe 3 MOA rifles. Not horrible, but not good, either. With an accustrut, they become between a 1 MOA to 2 MOA gun. Th accustrut also seems to help to keep the groups "tight" when the barrels heat up.

These guns are accurate enough for defense and hunting. Sure there are guns that are more accurate, but the Mini-30s can be bought in an all stainless configuration. No Aluminum or no carbon steel. These guns are all stainless. They are easy to strip, easy to clean, and pretty darn sturdy. They are tougher than guns with a lot of aluminum and they are more rust resistant than most rifles.

Minis are also viewed as sporting rifles. Even countries like Canada, that seem to have problems with just about every gun, don't have problems with Minis.

To me, I'd take a stainless, synthetic Mini-30.

By the way, the bore diameter on these guns is not set up for the cheap Russian ammo. I've heard that the bore diameter on these guns is built for use with .308 ammo, not the standard 7.62x39 russian ammo.

That might be why some folks have a hard time shooting these accurately. The thicker, 7.62x39 bullets are probably getting deformed when they are forced down the barrel. A deformed bullet won't be as accurate as an intact one.

I plan on getting one of these and loading my own ammo.

Just my $0.02.
Click to expand...

If you're going to do that, why not just get a SKS or AK-47? Then you can shoot the cheap Russian ammo with no issues. Accuracy ought to be similar to what you would get out of a Ruger Mini, and they certainly cost less.

Jason
 
Spend your money?

Why sure;)

Here ya go, if you want the best.........

http://www.lrbarms.com/m14rifles.html


M14SA or M25 receiver. Cant go wrong with either imo.

I would suggest their "Tanker", (M14SA or M25 depending on personal preference), and using their 18.5in Criterion chrome lined bbl.

Here is some other ideas for you to chew on..........

* If you want an M14 that is close in OAL to that of a Socom, look at the Smith Enterprise Inc. (SEI) Vortex direct connect flash hider and gas lock front sight. 39.5inches OAL compared to the Socom at 37.25inches. (39in even if you want to install it on an SAI M1A Scout)

SANY1246.jpg
The above pic shows the SEI "front end" alongside that of an M1A-A1 Bush rifle, which is the same OAL as that of the Scout model.
Note: The above type is SEI's "Hooded" version, which is similar to the HK type front sights, and is adjustable for elevation. The "D-18" type gas lock front sight can utilize any M14 front sight unit that's out there to my knowledge. I use mine to hunt with, and this set up is just dandy for the application. (Hogs and deer). I also like the std rear sight aperture along with it, as it works better for me in acquisition of a specific target in low light, against a dark background, and for moving targets....compared to the std type front sights out there.
Here is a pic of the D-18 installed on my LRB Arms M14SA Tanker......
LRBM14SABushrifle.jpg


* I would also suggest the Criterion 18.5in chrome lined bbl from LRB Arms for a shootin tube. I have had one on another M14 of mine since 2006/7 when it was built, and it will shoot just as well as 3 different M1A "Loaded" models that I have compared it to so far........ and this tube is a std weight/contour bbl, compared to the medium weight 22in chrome molly or stainless steel tube that the Loaded M1A sports.

* Look here for reliable, current production, NIW, M14 magazines...
http://www.44mag.com/category/m1a_m14_magazines_usgi
I have bought quite a few mags from here, and they only sell the real deal. No used surplus, or "junk" mags, and these folks are very pleasant to do business with.

* Stocks: Wood, synthetic, pistol grip folders, etc....... It is about personal preference really. I prefer the M14 synthetics on my "working" rifles...
SANY1257.jpg
I fill in the selector lever holes, sand them up for shape, then paint them. Easy to "freshen" them up after a week of hunting, leave um as is, or give um a camo paint job...... Whatever I'm in the mood for:)
The options here are plenty.

* Optics: Plenty of options here as well. It all really depends on what you want, and where you wanna mount it.
I like the Arms # 18 older style split rail mount as this gives me the lowest profile I have found to date for a receiver mount. Lower than the LRB M25 even.
SANY1253.jpg
SANY1245.jpg


* Other: (LRB Arms specific)
They use a mix of USGI M14 parts, along with parts of their own, and in the end, you will have a very well built M14 to use for hunting, target shooting, etc....., and be as reliable/durable as any other type of 7.62x51mm semiautomatic out there now....if not more so.;)



Have I spent enough of your $$ yet? (LOL)

11B
 
The only 7.62x51 semi autos I have any interest in are the SCAR 17 and the REPR. Unfortunately I can't afford either of them at the moment :(
 
Jason_G said:
If you're going to do that, why not just get a SKS or AK-47? Then you can shoot the cheap Russian ammo with no issues. Accuracy ought to be similar to what you would get out of a Ruger Mini, and they certainly cost less.

Jason
Click to expand...
Do they offer the SKS or AK rifles in stainless? I'm pretty sure that they don't. I don't buy guns unless the steel parts are stainless. Just my preference. I also prefer American made guns, and don't like steel cased ammo. I'd rather spend the extra money on the Ruger and support an American company.
 
the OP said .308 not 7.62x39 / a cheap pick would be saiga .308 but out-of-box accuracy is 3" (saiga supplies a test certificate with serial#) ..at first glance the certificate is impressive, until you convert centimeters to inches and realize you just bought a 3 moa rifle
 
Do they offer the SKS or AK rifles in stainless? I'm pretty sure that they don't. I don't buy guns unless the steel parts are stainless. Just my preference. I also prefer American made guns, and don't like steel cased ammo. I'd rather spend the extra money on the Ruger and support an American company.
Click to expand...

I don't think the OP requested stainless, or American. I may have said "you", but I didn't mean "you" if you know what I mean. My post wasn't advice for you, it was directed towards the OP's criteria.

Jason
 
My vote is for an AR-10. Sounds like it fits the bill perfectly. You can get a DPMS Sportacle (smoothside) or an Oracle (Dust cover + Shell deflector) for under a thousand or you can go up to any amount you like. I suggest DPMS because of the wide variety of choices and the price range. I own a SASS and its an amazing deal for the money. Hell start low and customize it to get exactly what you want. Best part about AR platform. Cant do that much with an FAL or AK. Just my .02
 
You have all forgotten about the CETME, PTR-91 and HK G-3 rifles. They are .308/7.62X51 and are decent to excellent pieces ranging from $550 to as much as you dare or care to spend. You can also find a Valmet M-78 "sniper rifle",which is an AK platform in .308, for around $1200.
 
Shot a 16" FNAR last weekend... Very cool & on my list

I like the AR10s too.. I think the layout is better than the FN BAR & M1As for long range bench shooting..

For Tacticoolness in 7.62 break piggy bank and buy the SCAR
 
I think with your requirements I would probably go for one of those Bushmaster ORC 308s. They are nice and light weight (7.75 lbs.), and have a chrome lined barrel. They take the good, cheap P-mags. They don't have any provision for iron sights, but that doesn't matter for hunting.

308ORC_RiflePrototype_BD200200.jpg


FYI, the SGL-21 is not 7.62 NATO. It is 7.62 Soviet, aka 7.62x39, which is a much less powerful and much shorter-ranged cartridge. It seems like you have this cartridge confused with 7.62 NATO, aka 7.62x51, aka .308, since you also mentioned the Ruger Mini-30 as a possibility.
 
What would be wrong with a REM Woods Man auto? They are a good gun and will be new and last your life time if you take good care of it. I have one in the 243 that has done me well. Good Luck on what ever you do.
 
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