Springer or Kimber ??

[Jammer Six]

Kimbers are "tightened", the SA milspec an loaded models aren't.

When you tighten a weapon beyond milspecs, you reduce reliability in the field.

That eliminated Kimber from my safe.

 

[Ala Dan]

FWIW, IMHO the basic low end Springfield WW-II G.I. model is the
absolute best bargain going in .45 ACP's. Especially, since the new
stainless steel version has hit the market. Priced at $389 for the
parkerized version, and $429 for the its stainless counterpart; we
can't keep 'em is stock~.

OTOH, I think the single-stack single action 1911 Para SSP (and
the LTC) with the new power extractor are as good as any Kimber
I've seen. Just my $.02 worth.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[wild billz]

reduce reliability in the field?

Then why is it that the Marines and the LAPD SWAT use the Kimbers if they are tightened.

Get what you want that feels best and meets your budget. Then when you too can join in on the ridiculous mine is better than your threads.

What I discovered when asking the same question two weeks ago is that everyone loves something different, that everyone gets disappointed every now and then, so figure out what floats your boat and go for it. And share with us what you get. Both are great, its a tough choice, enjoy making it.

PS, I'll probably look into adding a Springer some day to the aresenal too since the chances are once bitten by the 1911 bug you'll get more than 1, and they are good pistols.

 

[Ktulu]

This is certainly a matter of personal preference and personally I prefer Kimber. I've had good luck with them. I haven't owned a Springfield. People I know that have them love them. The ones I've handled and shot I wasn't impressed with.

 

[halvey]

Kimber. Keep the jobs in America.

 

[Risasi]

wild billz:

PS, I'll probably look into adding a Springer some day to the aresenal too since the chances are once bitten by the 1911 bug you'll get more than 1, and they are good pistols.

That's no joke. I've got a half a dozen. (I think, I lost count )
And since I have half a dozen that brings me to:

halvey:

Kimber. Keep the jobs in America.

I have two Springers, two off brands, and two BUL double stacks. Bul Transmark is an Israeli company. What isn't well known is BUL provided the polymer frames for Kimber. So that statement of keeping the jobs in America is now out the window. Look, the pandora's box is open. You either get used to some stuff getting done outside the US or you live in fantasy land. Doesn't mean I like it. I for one won't shop at Walmart. I just can't live with myself knowing 100's of billions of Waltmart money gets dumped into the Chinese military. Of course I'm one guy, and I know that isn't going to change anything. Nor am I real interested in trying to change the world. Lost cause.

Anyway my BUL's are of a tighter specification than the Springfields. But they sit in the safe. They shoot better than I can. And their tighter tolerances have lead to a few jams. I can't say the same about Springfield. The GI, which I prefer out of all my 1911's shoots about a 4" group at 25, but it always goes bang. I'm getting close to 10,000 rounds. Nothing but oil and cleaning. And sometimes so infrequently some might say to the point of being abusive. Not so, just wanted to see how robust it is. That $400 sure goes a long way.

Anyway, they are just differences we are pointing out. What one might call a weakness (looser tolerences), another might all a plus. Meaning it goes bang every time. Anyway, much of this depends on what the intended task for your tool is. If it's making the smallest hole possible, then FTF/FTE be damned. You are going to want tight tolerances. Kimber vs. Springfield is just the old Ford vs. Chevy argument. And most of it is personal preference.

 

[Siggyboy]

The Truth is that it is the Chevy v. Ford argument.

However, there are some guidelines. As RugerOldArmy mentioned, the best pistol of both (IMO) is the Springfield Pro (costs over $2,000) and it is generally accepted that the Springfield Mil-Spec and GI models are the best inexpensive 1911's. In the middle, I mostly prefer Kimber, but I wouldn't discount a SA loaded model that is fit well, and the SA TRP is comparable to some of the higher-end Kimbers. The Kimber firing pin safety stuff is overblown. I have a Springfield Pro and a Kimber TLE and they are both excellent in their class.

 

[YammyMonkey]

I have a SA and a Kimber and would buy one of either again if the need arose. Started off with the Kimber, then bought the SA a few years later only because it was a bit cheaper and since I shoot lefty I didn't want to mess with putting an ambi safety on a Kimber.

No major problems with either and customer service from both has been excellent. The guy at Kimber was a bit curt, but so what, some people are just no-B.S. get the the point like that.

 

[halvey]

I have two Springers, two off brands, and two BUL double stacks. Bul Transmark is an Israeli company. What isn't well known is BUL provided the polymer frames for Kimber. So that statement of keeping the jobs in America is now out the window.

You'd have a better point if anyone ever bought those polymer double stacks.

So how is Walmart using Chinese slave labor any different than Springer using Brazillian slave labor? And both countries have huge restrictions or bans on civilian arms ownership.

 

[1911WB]

1911 choices

I've had a number of Colt 1911's over the years, several Kimbers and three SA's. The SA's are more like Colt series 70 to me; although they, like Kimber, have some MIM parts. The thing is, with the much lower price of a basic SA, you can replace the critical MIM parts with barstock ones and stil have much less money invested than with a Kimber which still needs parts replaced (for my taste). The other thing is I appreciate the fact that SA still has the originally designed internal extractor. Although things can go wrong with the internal design, these things are well-known, and once you get the hang of them are no problem to straighten out. When you have a problem with an external extractor, like Kimber now uses, what do you do? Another thing is with Kimber series II pistols you have the added complexity of the FP safety system that I don't want or need. In short, get a Kimber series I if you want Kimber; if not, stick with Springfield.

 

[RikWriter]

Kimbers are "tightened", the SA milspec an loaded models aren't.

When you tighten a weapon beyond milspecs, you reduce reliability in the field.

That eliminated Kimber from my safe

Stuff and nonsense.

 

[Pointman1776]

Re: the Kimber Customer Service "attitude"...my friend, they are based in YONKERS NEW YORK!! That is just 20 miles from BROOKLYN!! That is not "attitude", that is just New York.

As I mentioned in my previous post on Page 1, I really can't decide between my K-TMII and my SA-Black Stainless. There's a lot of meaning and background story behind the K-TMII, and the looks of the SA-BS are just drop dead gorgeous (crowd favorite at the range)...and both shoot superbly.

You can't go wrong...it will probably come down to features and looks and preferences.

This is the time to turn off the mind, because either pistol is a sound decision, and go with the heart...buy what you want...the one that calls to you the most...and you will love your pistol. I guarantee. (And if you don't, send it to me for proper disposal).

So enough with the teasing already, which is it going to be?? And we want Pictures! And a range report!

 

[Black Majik]

Of the two companies, go with the Kimber

Springfield's Quality isn't what I would call acceptable IMO. I have a M1A, and that rifle feels downright cheap for the price I paid for it. There is even the gap on the right side where the handguard meets the stock. Absolutely unacceptable fit and finish (POS Krinkle finish.....sheesh.... )

I took a look at the TRP, which is suppose to be one of their better pistols (under the Professional). That gun had tool marks on the dustcover, deep enough that the hardchrome or whatever finish they used still showed the deep tool marks. (TRP at the stockade store for you socal folks.)

I'm just not impressed with springfield armory.

 

[texagun]

wild billz wrote: "Then why is it that the Marines and the LAPD SWAT use the Kimbers if they are tightened."

I think the Marines are restricted to ball ammo....thus no problems with reliability. I thought the LAPD SWAT were using Springfields....at least that's what the Springfield ads say. I think if you will look at the Kimber Forums you will see a lot of reliabilty issues with the new Series II Kimbers, and a lot of complaints about their customer service. For those reasons, I would go with Springfield. My Springfield Stainless 1911 Loaded has been flawless and for $600, can't be beat.

 

[Kaylee]

I've owned both. I've seen how both hold up under heavy use at an indoor range that uses both for rentals.

If you're talking about late-90's era pistols, when Springfield had the wonky wide frontstrap and Kimber was made in Clackamas -- it'd be a real tossup. The Clackamas Kimber I used to own was wonderful.

If you're talking about current production pistols -- I'd say Springfield with ZERO hesitation. The Kimber Eclipse in our rental case is currently on it's THIRD thumb safety, both the others having snapped.

-K

 

[Zach S]

The Truth is that it is the Chevy v. Ford argument.

Nah, Ford and Chevy are different animals. This is more like "Ford vs Lincoln."

I thought the LAPD SWAT were using Springfields....at least that's what the Springfield ads say.

Huh? I seem to remember ads mentioning FBI SWAT or HRT, but never LAPD. Unless I've missed something, the LAPD SWAT does in fact use Kimbers. Two TLE IIs for each officer to be specific. One equipped with a Surefire 610R, and one without.

 

[wild billz]

I bought the Lincoln, TLEII stainless

 

[glocker1911]

I've had alot of guns over the years. I've had great Springfields and I've had ones that had "problems". Same with Kimbers. Nothing that is mass produced is flawless. I work in a new car dealership. If people can't build a $50000 Corvette that doesn't occasionally have a problem what from the factory, why do we expect every $500 to $1000 handgun to be perfect? For the record, for CCW I personally carry a 5" Kimber Stainless Ten II. Couldn't be happier. This pistol is everything my Wilson KZ45 was, but at a better price. But if I didn't have it, I would probably be looking hard at a Springfield MC Operator. In the end, it's up to you. Good luck.

 

[Worli]

Got it settled...........Buy em both!

Yep,

I am buying the Springer this week followed soon by the Kimber.

I got a good deal on the Springfield so it's first and I spoke to a guy who will get me a great deal on the Kimber Stainless II TLE


Thanks for all of the input.........I will post after it arrives!

 

[Pointman1776]

Ah, an EXCELLENT decision! I did the same thing, and love both.

Which Springer to go along with the Kimber? The PX9151L or the PI9132L or the PX9152L?

And remember, we want PICTURES and a RANGE REPORT!

 

[Browns Fan]

What's up with the Kimber SII firing pin safety? Fortunately (I guess), mine is a pre-seris II.

 

[brickboy240]

I would say that "1911 Tuner's" Springfield test should put to bed any thoughts of SA's being sub-standard or not up to the test. Few of us will put a 1911 through that much hell.

Buy the Springer. Use the price difference to buy a nice holster or some practice ammo.

I love my Springer 1911 and don't miss my stolen Colt at all.

(oooh...there...I said it!!!)

-Brickboy240

 

[sturmruger]

If I were you I would wait and see what 1911tuner or Old Fluff say is the better gun. They are the experts.


In my opinion I would go with the Springfield, but that is mostly because I get sick of all those Kimber Elitest at the range that frown at my Ruger Autos, and then really frown when I out shoot them.

 

[Zach S]

What's up with the Kimber SII firing pin safety? Fortunately (I guess), mine is a pre-seris II.

Some people dont like them because of a lot of early reports that they didnt like to go bang because the SII was screwed up. I dont like them because (from what I understand) Kimber QC went downhill some about the time that SIIs hit the market.

If you're not sure, look at the rollmark. All Series IIs say "II" on the slide after the model number. Series I, Series None, Pre-series II, whatever you want to call them, dont have the II rollmark.