Springfield Armory vs ?

[Archym]

I want to start a new(?) thread due to the email I (and probably many others) get from Springfield Armory as to why their "reboots" of time tested designs are so far over priced compared to their alternative manufacturers.

I have no disrespect for SA. I proudly own (and shoot) one of their products. However, after shooting many similar (identical) designs from different and "foreign" manufacturers, and now owning one, I'm curious why the Springfield Armory justifies and promotes the price difference in their products.

I'll leave it at that and see where the thread goes.

As always: Keep it pointed in a safe direction. Keep your stick on the ice.

 

[Spats McGee]

Price difference? I’m comparison to other SA products, or comparable guns from other manufacturers?

 

[Buzznrose]

I guess because their marketing department suggested the MSRP and production levels required to stimulate demand?


Which model specifically?

 

[MikeInOr]

I really like Springfield Armory weapons but I have never paid full price for one. The local chain stores have big discounts with lots of accessories a couple of times a year.






s

 

[Archym]

Price difference? I’m comparison to other SA products, or comparable guns from other manufacturers?

In comparable firearms from other manufacturers. Just for debate's sake, SA's reboot of the Browning High Power. Compared to...well...ANY manufacturer that's made it for the past...say the past 30 years.

 

[Mk-211]

You're paying for the nostalgia of their name only.

This is/was the real deal.
https://www.nps.gov/spar/index.htm

 

[Archym]

It's a shame its for the name only considering what the operation of the instrument is. I get it. I really do. And it pains me that I can't get more behind it. They discontinued the Range Officer model right before the release of the "Emissary" and it was such a disappointment. Not only to the people that wanted to buy a Range Officer, but to those that spent so much for a model that had so much less going for it for so much more cost. And it seems like who ever has the reins of their marketing department in terms of the 1911 production just wants to spiral that company right down the bowl.

My dad bought the Ronin 1911 five inch barrel. We did our own repairs to the magazine and the feed ramp to get it to fire. $770 that you have to repair to get to fire from a 100 year old design.

 

[rust collector]

I don't think many, if any, buy an SA pistol because they think it is a product of Springfield Arsenal. They pay a premium for a gun that they want and that has a good reputation. My only SA pistol, an EMP4 Carry, was acquired because it looked good, felt good, and seemed like a reasonable value. It has met my expectations without a hitch. Yes, I paid more than for any other handgun I own, but I continue to be happy with that purchase. I am only one data point but buyers vote with their dollars. If SA is not providing value, their future will be a victim of their failure to maintain high standards.

SA is like Beretta. If you want to buy one of their models you had best act now, because they will probably be producing something different in a year or two, and you won't necessarily take a shine to the latest edition. It's like the old joke that divorces are so expensive because they are worth it. YMMV

 

[Remington1911]

You're paying for the nostalgia of their name only.

This is/was the real deal.
https://www.nps.gov/spar/index.htm

They are not one in of the same. The "old" springfield armory is not this company.

 

[Spats McGee]

Take my post as being worth what you paid for it, as I've only ever owned 2 SA pistols, and they both started their lives as plain-Jane GI model 1911s. Also, I've never used SA's customer service. As far as price difference, SA has a pretty good reputation, for both quality guns and good customer service. Their 1911s are good (production-level) guns, and their XD line certainly has its share of devoted followers on the boards I haunt. I've shot a couple of XD pistols, and they're OK. I don't love them, but they run and the XDS that I shot (in .45) was a surprisingly soft shooter. I don't figure that the folks on "my boards" who do love them can all be wrong. So, good pistols, just not something I need in my safe.

My first SA 1911 ran like a top, for the little while I owned it. (It got stolen about 3 weeks after I got it. More than 10 years later, I'm still mad about that.) The second didn't run well out of the box, not at all. Fortunately, a good friend of mine is a gunsmith. I sent that second 1911 to him and she ran like a top after that. Well enough, in fact, that she was my CC pistol for several years. I still have her and she's just a fantastic shooter.

 

[unclenunzie]

My first 1911 is an SA loaded stainless. I bought it new in 2009. It ran fine with FMJ, accurate. But it wouldn't feed hollowpoints well so I called them. They had me send it back on their dime and returned it to me tuned and with the barrel throated for hollowpoints. This is one of the IMBEL made units. I think I paid 700-800 for it. I think it was worth every cent.

 

[DeepSouth]

It’s basic economics.
Two theories of profitability.
1: low margins made up for by high volumes.
B: low volume made up for by high margins.

A balance between the two has to be made without outrunning demand.

They have analyzed the market and set what they believe to be the most profitable price point.that really is the end of it.

The better (real) question is why will people pay the price point demanded?
Is the product better? The warranty? The reputation? Is the customer base ill informed?

 

[Mosin77]

My SA 1911 was under $600 in the 2009(?) timeframe. It’s been great. I know they make much more expensive ones, but IMO they have decent value. SA-35 and XD series also seem to bring a lot to the table for those who like them. I’m much more likely to gripe about SAInc. because they have betrayed IL gun owners in the past.

 

[Slamfire]

It was a smart by the founders of Springfield Armory to use the name. The original Springfield Armory had been closed down by then, but the name recognition was huge for the WW2, Korea War and Vietnam generations. Many of them carried a M1 Garand, or M14 made by Springfield Armory. It was simply good marketing. As I remember the first firearms made by SA were Devine M1a's. It was somewhere in the 1980's or maybe 1990's that Springfield Armory started making 1911's. I remember a gunsmith expressing skepticism that SA could make a decent 1911 way below what Colt charged. Well, SA did.


No one should confuse the still existing Rock Island Arsenal with Rock Island Armory. But I am sure the name was picked because the general public does not know the difference. And it is great marketing.



Just today I was at the local Gunstore and I saw SA 1911's on the shelf. What I saw was about $100 more than a Taurus, so it is not out of the ball park. A new Colt 1911 was over $1000. You pay for the Pony. I don't think SA is all that exorbitant.

I am a cheap bugger though, and last month I purchased a $329.00 Tisas 1911, and for the money, I cannot be happier.









practicing one handed shooting.






You don't have to spend big money to get a reliable 1911 that shoots to point of aim. I do wish I have purchased the first Range Officer I handled, it was tighter than a bank vault. Got to fire a friend's, and it was a quality firearm.

I have fond memories of Springfield Armory on Commercial Row at Camp Perry. So maybe I am wearing Rose Colored Glasses.

 

[Charlie98]

I just have to laugh at this....

You are comparing 1911 pistols... where the SAI is more expensive.

Then you turn around and look at something else SAI produces... the M1a. SAI M1a is the least expensive version of that rifle (compared to SEI, Bula, etc) and some consider it inferior because it has a cast receiver.

They just can't win...

 

[sevt_chevelle]

Just a thought but besides the 60-80 yr crowd on the forum, who knows about or gives a hoot about the name?

I have no disrespect for SA. I proudly own (and shoot) one of their products. However, after shooting many similar (identical) designs from different and "foreign" manufacturers, and now owning one, I'm curious why the Springfield Armory justifies and promotes the price difference in their products.

How does SA justify making a 2011 pistol, price at 1500 bucks when their nearest competitor is at 2500 or an Atlas at 8k?

The SA 35 is about what 100 to 150 more then the Turkish gun but yet FN's new redesign is more than double..

I fail to understand your point.

 

[Zendude]

I always considered Springfield’s 1911 prices to be reasonable. There are cheaper 1911s out there, but I think the Springfields look a bit nicer than most less expensive ones.

 

[tarosean]

A new Colt 1911 was over $1000. You pay for the Pony.

You mean you're not paying for imported assembled parts?

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I want to start a new(?) thread due to the email I (and probably many others) get from Springfield Armory as to why their "reboots" of time tested designs are so far over priced compared to their alternative manufacturers.

I have no disrespect for SA. I proudly own (and shoot) one of their products. However, after shooting many similar (identical) designs from different and "foreign" manufacturers, and now owning one, I'm curious why the Springfield Armory justifies and promotes the price difference in their products.

I'll leave it at that and see where the thread goes.

As always: Keep it pointed in a safe direction. Keep your stick on the ice.

They're not so different. More than the Tisas, but it's hard to compare anything made entirely in Turkey against any of the SA guns which are I think assembled in the US. Rock Island is a little closer, and Colt and Kimber are more expensive for not really any more quality, sadly.

Their M1s are cheaper than any of the others, as is their 2011. The SA-35 is very competitive, not much more than the Girsans but a lot less than the FN.

 

[ms6852]

I own a bunch of Springfield Armory 1911's from 380's to 45 acp's to 10mm's. Some of my 1911's were cheaper than Rock Island and less expensive than Kimber (which I don't like) and others were more expensive but not as expensive as Smith and Wesson's 1911's from the Performance Center.

One thing for sure of all of them, they are all reliable and their customer service which I have only used once and it was my fault was exceptional.
Another thing and most important to me is I like their products and I can buy whatever I want, even Korths, I still buy Springfield Armory, but will humbly accept any firearm you may wish to gift .

 

[Zahn]

I guess I don't get the premise of the original post. Springfield Armory makes some excellent firearms, and their prices are low-tier, mid-tier and well, mid-tier. They don't have models in the upper tier price ranges. They import some nice firearms (the XD family) which are comparable in cost to similar ones from other brands/importers, and they make the lowest cost M14, which they named the M1A. Their 1911 is make entirely of US made parts and has been for years. I bought an SA 1911 Govt 1911 in 2020, in the depths of Covid and the ammo/firearm shortages, for $650. It runs like a top and is very well made.

The 1911's from Tisas, SDS, Rock Island Armory, Taylors and Company are all made elsewhere, and often are made where production costs are lower. Other US-based companies' 1911's are generally more expensive than SA. I say 'generally' because I just bought a new Kimber LW Arctic for less than $600, so other US brands aren't always more expensive.

 

[Demi-human]

post is likely going to be deleted or at least thread lock in 3......2........1..

Not if we stick purely to firearms when we discuss geo-economic policy, and probably stay completely away from morality. If you can help it.


I don’t consider SA’s pricing out of line. I don’t like their marketing, their models are not awe-inspiring(GripZone!), and their corporate is, as slimy as any other’s, I guess. They do make the heaviest production AR, so that’s a thing. I suppose.
I’m just a carpenter, but I find it false economy to spend less for an SA than for a Dan Wesson, or to spend more for the SA than an Armscor.

Yes, Economics is a vast and complicated Doctorate.

 

[Remington1911]

Not if we stick purely to firearms when we discuss geo-economic policy, and probably stay completely away from morality. If you can help it.


I don’t consider SA’s pricing out of line. I don’t like their marketing, their models are not awe-inspiring(GripZone!), and their corporate is, as slimy as any other’s, I guess. They do make the heaviest production AR, so that’s a thing. I suppose.
I’m just a carpenter, but I find it false economy to spend less for an SA than for a Dan Wesson, or to spend more for the SA than an Armscor.

Yes, Economics is a vast and complicated Doctorate.

Your right, sorry, no place for that kind of stuff in todays world.

 

[Demi-human]

Your right, sorry, no place for that kind of stuff in todays world.

There’s a place, just not THR.
It’s called NoTechTyranny, THR’s sister site!

(I don’t disagree, it’s just verboten. Things Of Which We Do Not Speak, as it were.)

But, back to Springfield, a decent company, just not for me.
(Armpit reloading bullpups?)

 

[Slamfire]

You mean you're not paying for imported assembled parts?

How much of a Colt pistol is fabricated inhouse? How much is sub contracted? I would be interested in that, which I assume, you know.

The Remington 1911 R1 was claimed to be made in the USA, and the frame does state USA as the origin, but from a guy who worked at the plant, the slides at least were forged in South Korea. I did not ask what other parts were, as parts origin was incidental to the story being told. Buyers should be skeptical about "made in the USA" claims until they actually see who are the sub tier 1, 2, and I am going to claim, 3 subcontractors. I am sure it would take the wind out of many to find out "made in the USA" is far less than what they think.

One thing that is very interesting, companies themselves don't know the suppliers below first tier of subcontractors. And it is turning out to be embarrassing, contractors really have no idea who or whom is using their parts.