buenhec
Member
I bought and XD45 tactical foe target and uspsa. Fine gun but after a month spent an additional $400 and bought a 220. My XD is for sale if you are interested.
Springfield XD .45 or Sig P220
- Thread starter andraws
- Start date
- Status
Autolycus
Member
I would look at the HK USP in .45 as well as your choices.
In my experience, the Sig is in another league in terms of accuracy and potential durability. As far as the price, I love my Sigs but I'd never pay what they ask for a new one! You can get P220's used all day long for around $450, sometime less. The older German guns are arguably better in most regards anyway.
That said, I'm trying to trade for an XD45 to put some ammo through to make a more valid comparison. I will never part with my P220!
Sig VS XD
People keep talking about the Sig being accurate and extremely durable. I have owned 6 Sigs: 3 220's, 1 229, 1 226, and 1 228. The fit was very good on all of these. The finish just plain sucks on all of them. It wears very easy for pistols that have price tags like this. I "grew up" shooting a 220, and it was a good pistol. However durability is questionable on all of these. The only one of the Sigs I owned that didn't have something break was the 229 because I got rid of it before I shot 1,000 rounds out of it due to feed problems. 220-broken hammer pin, broken extractor, broken trigger return spring. 228-broken hammer pin, extractor wore out. 226-broken slide lock, slide would rarely lock back after last shot. Keep in mind I shoot, and I shoot alot. I don't take care of my weapons, I treat them like crap. I want to know what they can take. Accuracy was never brilliant out of any of these pistols. Sigs do not shoot as accurate as a good 1911. You can tighten the hell out of the slide to get it to shoot accurately, but it won't be reliable.
I own 2 XD's: a 40 and 45 service. Both of these pistols are pretty accurate. Just as accurate as any Sig I have owned. Are they as accurate as my Kimber 1911? No. Are they more reliable? Yes as all the MIM parts on my Kimber have failed except for the slide release. I have not broken anything on either XD yet. I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 through my XD 40 and so far so good. I just bought the 45 last week so it only has 2,000 through it. No problems yet. It is getting ready to experience a high volume of rounds as I spent the better part of 3 days cranking out rounds from my little blue press. Hot rounds. Accuracy is better than I expected, better than the 40 for me. My only concern with the 45 is that they shaved off a LOT of plastic in order to get the grip to the size that it is. Take out the magazine and you can literally "pinch" the sides of the grip inwards. Can't do that on the 40. My concern with that is how well it will contain a kaboom. We shall see sooner or later, no doubt someone will blow one up with a double charge of powder.
Owned an HK which was definately more accurate than any Sig I owned, but the grip was a little too big for me. HK's are over priced IMO as well, and I would not have bought it except I got a smoking deal on it. I never broke anything on it either.
Sig vs XD? My opinion is the XD due to my experience with both brands. The Sig is overpriced for what you get. Magazines for the Sig are extremely expensive, and I found that they are not reliable with any type of after market mags. You get a max of 9 shots with the Sig and 14 with the XD. A Sig costs 700 or more new, I paid 530 for my XD. I got 2 hi cap mags, a holster, double magazine holster, and a mag loader, (and some other crap) included with the pistol. Pretty much a no brainer if you ask me.
People keep talking about the Sig being accurate and extremely durable. I have owned 6 Sigs: 3 220's, 1 229, 1 226, and 1 228. The fit was very good on all of these. The finish just plain sucks on all of them. It wears very easy for pistols that have price tags like this. I "grew up" shooting a 220, and it was a good pistol. However durability is questionable on all of these. The only one of the Sigs I owned that didn't have something break was the 229 because I got rid of it before I shot 1,000 rounds out of it due to feed problems. 220-broken hammer pin, broken extractor, broken trigger return spring. 228-broken hammer pin, extractor wore out. 226-broken slide lock, slide would rarely lock back after last shot. Keep in mind I shoot, and I shoot alot. I don't take care of my weapons, I treat them like crap. I want to know what they can take. Accuracy was never brilliant out of any of these pistols. Sigs do not shoot as accurate as a good 1911. You can tighten the hell out of the slide to get it to shoot accurately, but it won't be reliable.
I own 2 XD's: a 40 and 45 service. Both of these pistols are pretty accurate. Just as accurate as any Sig I have owned. Are they as accurate as my Kimber 1911? No. Are they more reliable? Yes as all the MIM parts on my Kimber have failed except for the slide release. I have not broken anything on either XD yet. I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 through my XD 40 and so far so good. I just bought the 45 last week so it only has 2,000 through it. No problems yet. It is getting ready to experience a high volume of rounds as I spent the better part of 3 days cranking out rounds from my little blue press. Hot rounds. Accuracy is better than I expected, better than the 40 for me. My only concern with the 45 is that they shaved off a LOT of plastic in order to get the grip to the size that it is. Take out the magazine and you can literally "pinch" the sides of the grip inwards. Can't do that on the 40. My concern with that is how well it will contain a kaboom. We shall see sooner or later, no doubt someone will blow one up with a double charge of powder.
Owned an HK which was definately more accurate than any Sig I owned, but the grip was a little too big for me. HK's are over priced IMO as well, and I would not have bought it except I got a smoking deal on it. I never broke anything on it either.
Sig vs XD? My opinion is the XD due to my experience with both brands. The Sig is overpriced for what you get. Magazines for the Sig are extremely expensive, and I found that they are not reliable with any type of after market mags. You get a max of 9 shots with the Sig and 14 with the XD. A Sig costs 700 or more new, I paid 530 for my XD. I got 2 hi cap mags, a holster, double magazine holster, and a mag loader, (and some other crap) included with the pistol. Pretty much a no brainer if you ask me.
Sylvilagus Aquaticus
Member
I've shot the XD45 a little. I'd say I've got 300 rounds through one. I don't own one, but that's probably going to change. I like it just fine, as far as polymer frame pistols go. I'll put my money into one. It fits my hand without problems, it's not too bulky for me if I decided to CCW one, and it hits where I point it.
On the other hand, I've owned a P220 for a few years now, and I'm really comfortable with it, both from an operational point of view as well as a practical applicator of hits on target. Mine is a lightly used/not abused one I found that had been traded in for something else. I paid about $390 for it with SIG night sights, 3 mags, case, and a full set of new replacement springs. A side note is that the P220 gets carried fairly frequently.
Put one of each in your hands, run at least 50 rounds through them each, and get back to me. You might end up budgeting for both.
Regards,
Rabbit.
On the other hand, I've owned a P220 for a few years now, and I'm really comfortable with it, both from an operational point of view as well as a practical applicator of hits on target. Mine is a lightly used/not abused one I found that had been traded in for something else. I paid about $390 for it with SIG night sights, 3 mags, case, and a full set of new replacement springs. A side note is that the P220 gets carried fairly frequently.
Put one of each in your hands, run at least 50 rounds through them each, and get back to me. You might end up budgeting for both.
Regards,
Rabbit.
buenhec
Member
Well, I had the same problem. I bought the XD45, one month later sold it and bought my 220 equinox. Wow, what a difference. Its the difference between a Ford and a BMW, they both get you there but one does it more securly and in style. I now have two 220's a compact and an equinox.
andraws
Member
Thank you all for your insights! This last Friday a friend let me shoot his xd .45 acp and I loved it! He doesn't own a Sig but it was great to try the xd. I was surprised how much better I shot this gun than I did my Taurus 627 Tracker Titanium 4" 357. When I get the Taurus back from Taurus (they're fixing the timing) I'll be trading for an XD. I also got to shoot his S&W 29 44 mag. What a trigger! I can see this is going to get VERY EXPENSIVE!
Quote:
"I don't take care of my weapons".
Quote:
"Pretty much a no brainer..."
Let me clarify what I mean by I don't take care of my weapons so that Mr. Senior Member who probably knows everything understands....I shoot alot, I don't clean them frequently, they have been overseas with me many times where they won't be rotting in a gun safe getting weekly rub downs with Hoppes. Instead they get sandblasted, wet, scratched, saltwater soakings, jumped, (I did lose a Sig on a jump once, it was recovered and it was a little beat up, but still worked just fine) and many other things a combat firearm should pass through with shining colors.
My weapons get USED hard. When I am not deployed I shoot IDPA to stay fresh, and I use my deployment weapons to do this. If they break: IE Sigs, then I won't trust them. Much to my chagrin, I won't take 1911's with me either because I found out the hard way there is a chance the trigger won't return when subjected to sand. Other people have had different experiences with this, but that is mine and I go by what I have experienced. I use what works, if you want to slam a "newbie" with more than a little experience with quality firearms then "no brainer" might just be a term you should embrace. You can take your cute little emoticons and shove them up your lilly ass for all I care. I expressed my opinion on the matter as the original poster had requested. I am not here to sell a product, or bash one if it doesn't warrant it. If the XD fails, you can bet I will be posting what happened so that others who don't shoot as much will know what they are getting in to.
Also edit from my last post, I failed to mention that the XD's don't seem to like SWC ammo, it may just be my loadings. I have to carry ball on deployments so that's not a problem just embarrassing when at a match when it doesn't feed right. I am also beginning to wonder about the quality of the mags as on deployments they may stay loaded for some time and I don't like to have to cycle them all the time, that may be a concern for those who might use it as a nightstand gun or duty piece and forget to cycle mags.....time will tell.
Death from Above.
"I don't take care of my weapons".
Quote:
"Pretty much a no brainer..."
Let me clarify what I mean by I don't take care of my weapons so that Mr. Senior Member who probably knows everything understands....I shoot alot, I don't clean them frequently, they have been overseas with me many times where they won't be rotting in a gun safe getting weekly rub downs with Hoppes. Instead they get sandblasted, wet, scratched, saltwater soakings, jumped, (I did lose a Sig on a jump once, it was recovered and it was a little beat up, but still worked just fine) and many other things a combat firearm should pass through with shining colors.
My weapons get USED hard. When I am not deployed I shoot IDPA to stay fresh, and I use my deployment weapons to do this. If they break: IE Sigs, then I won't trust them. Much to my chagrin, I won't take 1911's with me either because I found out the hard way there is a chance the trigger won't return when subjected to sand. Other people have had different experiences with this, but that is mine and I go by what I have experienced. I use what works, if you want to slam a "newbie" with more than a little experience with quality firearms then "no brainer" might just be a term you should embrace. You can take your cute little emoticons and shove them up your lilly ass for all I care. I expressed my opinion on the matter as the original poster had requested. I am not here to sell a product, or bash one if it doesn't warrant it. If the XD fails, you can bet I will be posting what happened so that others who don't shoot as much will know what they are getting in to.
Also edit from my last post, I failed to mention that the XD's don't seem to like SWC ammo, it may just be my loadings. I have to carry ball on deployments so that's not a problem just embarrassing when at a match when it doesn't feed right. I am also beginning to wonder about the quality of the mags as on deployments they may stay loaded for some time and I don't like to have to cycle them all the time, that may be a concern for those who might use it as a nightstand gun or duty piece and forget to cycle mags.....time will tell.
Death from Above.
Lonestar49
Member
Very interesting point in above post
...
Guns that require care, or are forgiving of many rounds in between total disassembly, inspection, cleaning, and reassembly.
That is where Sigs, i.e. a P220 SAS or Carry IMHO, make for the best all around best CCW and accurate shooters, and requiring the least amount of care.
This is simply based on 2 things:
Sigs are one of, IF NOT, the easiest guns to disassemble, inspect, clean, and reassemble, out there, bar none.
They are very forgiving of going 500 -800 rounds before total cleaning is needed from my experience without acquiring damage of any kind, as quick, inspections, cleanings, re-oiling of rails and guides, feed ramp, and breach block, 3 runs with bore-snake thru the barrel, take but 3 - 5 mins max.
Whereas, any 1911, demands proper timing, being Clean of powder residue on the feed ramps, breach blocks or the interior of the magazines, and must be WET on the rails and guides in order for them to perform dependably IMO.
And with that demand, comes the tear-downs, and no matter how many times I have taken my down, they are not that fun, nor forgiving, if ya make a mistake, scratch wise, or operation wise, as one must go SLOW with these demanding features of the 1911's IMO.
Therefore, with all that I know and IMHO, that favors the SIG, bar none.
Only requirements to have:
1. semi oily pure cotton T-shirt for wiping
2. small bottle of good gun oil and EEZOX synthetic lube/cleaner in one (instructions on can or bottle)
3. Box of Q-Tips (for cleaning and application of oil and EEZOX)
4. *1 for cleaning or *2, one for clean application of lube-only, *Bore Snakes, your call, for (spraying of EEZOX on-it for cleaning and lubing of one's barrel)
5. 5 mins max
Ls
...
Guns that require care, or are forgiving of many rounds in between total disassembly, inspection, cleaning, and reassembly.
That is where Sigs, i.e. a P220 SAS or Carry IMHO, make for the best all around best CCW and accurate shooters, and requiring the least amount of care.
This is simply based on 2 things:
Sigs are one of, IF NOT, the easiest guns to disassemble, inspect, clean, and reassemble, out there, bar none.
They are very forgiving of going 500 -800 rounds before total cleaning is needed from my experience without acquiring damage of any kind, as quick, inspections, cleanings, re-oiling of rails and guides, feed ramp, and breach block, 3 runs with bore-snake thru the barrel, take but 3 - 5 mins max.
Whereas, any 1911, demands proper timing, being Clean of powder residue on the feed ramps, breach blocks or the interior of the magazines, and must be WET on the rails and guides in order for them to perform dependably IMO.
And with that demand, comes the tear-downs, and no matter how many times I have taken my down, they are not that fun, nor forgiving, if ya make a mistake, scratch wise, or operation wise, as one must go SLOW with these demanding features of the 1911's IMO.
Therefore, with all that I know and IMHO, that favors the SIG, bar none.
Only requirements to have:
1. semi oily pure cotton T-shirt for wiping
2. small bottle of good gun oil and EEZOX synthetic lube/cleaner in one (instructions on can or bottle)
3. Box of Q-Tips (for cleaning and application of oil and EEZOX)
4. *1 for cleaning or *2, one for clean application of lube-only, *Bore Snakes, your call, for (spraying of EEZOX on-it for cleaning and lubing of one's barrel)
5. 5 mins max
Ls
Last edited:
possum
Member
yep i have 2 xds that i have ran hard and i have beenvery pleased there isn't a gun out there that i like more, polymer or not they are outstanding weapons and i will most definetly be buying more of the xd line up in the future.
Vito_Corleone
Member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2007
- Messages
- 64
Never liked XDs, love my P220 though.
Im with lrrs1 -
I dont get the Sig thing. They shoot pretty nice, yes they are accurate. They should be for a $750 gun that is the quality of a $250 gun.
I never owned a gun with worse finish and showed more wear than my Sig 220. The slide to frame fit was terrible...It also flat out broke 2X in the first 1000 rounds. SIG was great about sending new parts....but it still flat out broke mid magazine. It went down the road..maybe it was just a lemon, I will admit that.
FWIW I also pretty much baby my handguns, but SIGs are practically "delicate" IMHO.
Again, the 220 was accurate, but Id buy the XD...or look elsewhere. I have an XD45 and its far from my favorite simply due to the trigger. Id pick a Beretta PX4 over both. Save the extra $300 for ammo or training.
Glock for reliability and durability, Kimber/any 1911 for range accuracy.
I dont get the Sig thing. They shoot pretty nice, yes they are accurate. They should be for a $750 gun that is the quality of a $250 gun.
I never owned a gun with worse finish and showed more wear than my Sig 220. The slide to frame fit was terrible...It also flat out broke 2X in the first 1000 rounds. SIG was great about sending new parts....but it still flat out broke mid magazine. It went down the road..maybe it was just a lemon, I will admit that.
FWIW I also pretty much baby my handguns, but SIGs are practically "delicate" IMHO.
Again, the 220 was accurate, but Id buy the XD...or look elsewhere. I have an XD45 and its far from my favorite simply due to the trigger. Id pick a Beretta PX4 over both. Save the extra $300 for ammo or training.
Glock for reliability and durability, Kimber/any 1911 for range accuracy.
Lonestar great point on the 1911. I lost the recoil spring plug when I had it disassembled in the field once. I frickin shot off like a rocket into the jungle and was never recovered as we wound up having to move shortly after. I cussed that one up for a while. That was one part I didn't think about bringing along with me (I had an extra extractor, springs and all kinds of other crap, but not that part).
Disassembly on the Sig and XD are very similar and they are both strong points for these pistols. I liked the feel of the Sig, it is the best feeling pistol out there IMO as I am not particularly fond of polymer.
Cleaning each one is a snap. I did go one VERY extended period with my early model 220 (before the rebounding hammer) and the Sig's trigger got so heavy I could not pull it. Mind you it shot a LOT of dirty ammo and went for about 3 months without cleaning. There was so much brass and carbon in the trigger group it wouldn't allow it to travel far enough back to release the hammer. I cleaned it up and it worked fine after that.
The XD so far is doing well. I have tried some hand loads and got good groups, but funny enough it shoots the best groups so far with Rem UMC. It will see government loads this weekend. It will be my training piece for the weekend so it is going to get aired out. I won't post on it again unless it breaks or impresses the hell out of me.
Disassembly on the Sig and XD are very similar and they are both strong points for these pistols. I liked the feel of the Sig, it is the best feeling pistol out there IMO as I am not particularly fond of polymer.
Cleaning each one is a snap. I did go one VERY extended period with my early model 220 (before the rebounding hammer) and the Sig's trigger got so heavy I could not pull it. Mind you it shot a LOT of dirty ammo and went for about 3 months without cleaning. There was so much brass and carbon in the trigger group it wouldn't allow it to travel far enough back to release the hammer. I cleaned it up and it worked fine after that.
The XD so far is doing well. I have tried some hand loads and got good groups, but funny enough it shoots the best groups so far with Rem UMC. It will see government loads this weekend. It will be my training piece for the weekend so it is going to get aired out. I won't post on it again unless it breaks or impresses the hell out of me.
Every now and then I try the Sig P220 and they never seem to fit me well.
By try, I mean I purchased and sold a couple even a newer stainless with the rail.
I tried an XD45 and it fit my hand well.
Accurate and for games I purchased a Pistol Gear gunsmith fit barrel and a trigger sear kit.
I fit the barrel and did a trigger job with the Springer Precision trigger kit.
XD is the choice for me.
25 Yards two hand grip.
By try, I mean I purchased and sold a couple even a newer stainless with the rail.
I tried an XD45 and it fit my hand well.
Accurate and for games I purchased a Pistol Gear gunsmith fit barrel and a trigger sear kit.
I fit the barrel and did a trigger job with the Springer Precision trigger kit.
XD is the choice for me.
25 Yards two hand grip.
I've had a Sig 220, an XD .45 and an XD .45 compact. I prefer the S&W M&P in .45 over all those. The Sig had a less-than-satisfactory finish, so-so trigger pull, and just didn't fit me like an M&P does. I didn't care for the finish or trigger on the XD, but so far I love everything about the M&P...feel, trigger, finish, and it's more accurate than either of the other two were for me.
bluto
Member
Nothing wrong with the XD if it suits you. I've tried one and it just didn't fit my hand well. For me it's the P220. It is positively my favorite pistol to shoot and I've never shot one that wasn't superbly accurate right out of the box.
I just picked up my second used (Certified Pre-Owned) CPO P220. This one has an older W. German frame and Sig put a new Nitroned stainless slide on it. Looks almost new and shoots just like all my other P220's - lights out.
I just picked up my second used (Certified Pre-Owned) CPO P220. This one has an older W. German frame and Sig put a new Nitroned stainless slide on it. Looks almost new and shoots just like all my other P220's - lights out.
Last edited:
i have a sig p220r and an xd 45 compact.
the sig is well made, seems durable and has functioned 100%. it is accurate, and has a good trigger. for its size and weight, it would be nice if it held more that 8+1.
the xd is well made, seems durable and has functioned 100% as well. it is also accurate, and has a decent trigger (fairly long reset). it is similar in size, but holds 13+1 and is lighter.
if i could only choose one to keep, it would be the XD. just my personal preference.
the sig is well made, seems durable and has functioned 100%. it is accurate, and has a good trigger. for its size and weight, it would be nice if it held more that 8+1.
the xd is well made, seems durable and has functioned 100% as well. it is also accurate, and has a decent trigger (fairly long reset). it is similar in size, but holds 13+1 and is lighter.
if i could only choose one to keep, it would be the XD. just my personal preference.
lrrs1,
No need for a tantrum and cursing, that's what ARFcom is for! You were simply quoted. I do wish I knew everything, however that's not the case. Post count really means nothing, and I don't intentially slam newbies. That said, we'll have to agree to disagree on Sig vs XD quality. If you use them hard, you have to maintain them properly regardless of brand. You're certainly lucky in whatever it is you do that you have such latitude in terms of weapons choices.
I just traded into an XD45 service model today. Hopefully soon I can run some informal tests on the P220 vs XD45, stay tuned.
No need for a tantrum and cursing, that's what ARFcom is for! You were simply quoted. I do wish I knew everything, however that's not the case. Post count really means nothing, and I don't intentially slam newbies. That said, we'll have to agree to disagree on Sig vs XD quality. If you use them hard, you have to maintain them properly regardless of brand. You're certainly lucky in whatever it is you do that you have such latitude in terms of weapons choices.
I just traded into an XD45 service model today. Hopefully soon I can run some informal tests on the P220 vs XD45, stay tuned.
M&P .45 is a better deal than either pistol or the Glock 21 SF. I can't get too excited about Sigs these days. Their quality control and customer service has suffered. Probably because of their production of shiny pistols of various types with. Quantity over quality seem to be their new rule but their prices have not dropped accordingly. I understand why people like XD's but I find that they have too many parts I don't want or need, have too high a bore axis, and poor triggers. The good news is that there are an awful lot of really nice .45's these days in the $5-$600 price range.
Last edited:
Gunner4h1r3
Member
XD all the way if you are on a budget. The 13+1 is a nice peace of mind to have.
Sig isn't too lefty-friendly, so i would go with the XD since I am a southpaw.
Sig isn't too lefty-friendly, so i would go with the XD since I am a southpaw.
- Status
