Jeff Timm
Member
Biker said:
He was appointed by Clinton. This does not make him incompetent, he could be a VERY COMPETENT communist traitor.
Geoff
Who has a low opinion of shysters at the best of times.
Spy court judge quits in protest
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He was appointed by Clinton. This does not make him incompetent, he could be a VERY COMPETENT communist traitor.
Geoff
Who has a low opinion of shysters at the best of times.
By that logic, anyone Bush appoints could be construed as a traitor.Jeff Timm said:He was appointed by Clinton. This does not make him incompetent, he could be a VERY COMPETENT communist traitor.
Geoff
Who has a low opinion of shysters at the best of times.
Biker
RealGun
Member
MrTuffPaws said:With facts like that, you must have loved Clinton
Ah yes, the bubble years. Now as then, the administration can and will take credit for prosperity. The recovery from the post 9/11 slump has been excellent. Older investments aren't that good though, because some of the value is in different stocks than it was in 2001. Camp David is exactly right, except that the DOW is up more like 500, not 1000. Let's not try too hard to rob the Bush administration of credit, because this measure is where the rubber really meets the road. What it's all about is maintaining an environment for prosperity, which mainly requires stability, including fighting them there instead of here.
I tend to think of employment statistics as phony baloney, because I know or see too many people without jobs. Those who gave up looking aren't counted. I suspect that number is growing more than anyone would care to divulge or explain. Nevertheless, the traditional employment measure looks relatively good.
odysseus
Member
The fallacy that a single president has great influence on the economic health of the country during his term, and especially these days internationally, is one that is hard to learn away from a lot of people. It's always used when times are good for a current Administration, and then ignored and shrugged off by the same people when times are bad. Economic academics will learn you otherwise. It's not for this discussion anyway.
RealGun
Member
odysseus said:
Except that the president's decisive action after 9/11 was directly responsible for stabilizing the market, something that operates emotionally more than on any sound economic basis. The market needed Bush to recover some of its "irrational exuberance" (Greenspan speak). There are more than a few people very grateful for some recovery in their 401K and IRA accounts. Bush has certainly been in office long enough to take credit for traditional measures of an administration's economic success. Just remember that if things were going poorly, you wouldn't be so intent on protecting him from blame.
Of course, the other factor is that when the economy takes a dip, the country needs a good war to crank up the military/industrial complex.
Two PhD economists are good friends of mine. I can check with them, if you like.
Tom C.
Member.
You guys are being stampeded by the MSM. Think about why the NYT would run a story after sitting on it for a year. I can think of several reasons. 1. Time it for release of a book by one of their writers. 2. Time it to change the subject from the successful elections in Iraq, which put the lie to most of their bulls**t arguments against the war. 3. Try to stop the surge in Bush’s momentum in the polls.
If you read their crap carefully, they are using a selective reading of the law to claim the only way communication taps can be done is by court order. That is simply not the case. The Attorney General can authorize national security taps himself. Presidents have been doing that for about 27 years.
Remember the laptop computers we captured at the training camp in northern Iraq. These guys have phone lists too. We have entered those phone numbers into the computers and watch for incoming and outgoing calls from those numbers. When calls from those numbers go to or from the United States, they are monitored. The people being monitored are mostly non citizens, but there are some citizens who are being monitored. They are agents and sympathizers and I am darn glad they are being monitored.
International communications is still fair game. Our victory in WWII was made possible by signal communications. Ever hear of Enigma?
If you read their crap carefully, they are using a selective reading of the law to claim the only way communication taps can be done is by court order. That is simply not the case. The Attorney General can authorize national security taps himself. Presidents have been doing that for about 27 years.
Remember the laptop computers we captured at the training camp in northern Iraq. These guys have phone lists too. We have entered those phone numbers into the computers and watch for incoming and outgoing calls from those numbers. When calls from those numbers go to or from the United States, they are monitored. The people being monitored are mostly non citizens, but there are some citizens who are being monitored. They are agents and sympathizers and I am darn glad they are being monitored.
International communications is still fair game. Our victory in WWII was made possible by signal communications. Ever hear of Enigma?
Like it or not guys the government has done this since its creation and will continue to do so untill the end. Why is it such a big deal now? Didn't you guys know this already?
I know the first thing your going to say(so I'll beat you to it)is, I don't care about our 4th amendment rights, not true.
I am simply saying this is the way it is.
And I disagree with invasion of privacy just like I disagree with murder/mass murder,terrorist acts,violence ect......
In certain cases there isn't time to follow the rules/laws and I am going have to trust the government to make that decision when the time comes.
Remember the cuban missle chrisis? Yea I know that's different.........ok let er rip
On a lighter note Merry Christmas
I know the first thing your going to say(so I'll beat you to it)is, I don't care about our 4th amendment rights, not true.
I am simply saying this is the way it is.
And I disagree with invasion of privacy just like I disagree with murder/mass murder,terrorist acts,violence ect......
In certain cases there isn't time to follow the rules/laws and I am going have to trust the government to make that decision when the time comes.
Remember the cuban missle chrisis? Yea I know that's different.........ok let er rip
On a lighter note Merry Christmas
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
If these are the people being monitored, then it should be no trouble whatsoever to GET A WARRANT via FISA to tap their phones.
Why make an end run around FISA for some taps, unless you think that FISA would not approve those taps? This tells me that the secret, no-warrant taps probably aren't people whose names were on a laptop somewhere in Afghanistan, but rather people for whom an investigator could find no probable cause to justify even a FISA warrant.
Master Blaster
Member
Here is a clue for the apparently clueless here:
In order to get a warrant you need to name the phone number/ location / person, and provide some idea of the thing you are searching for.
Now imagine we are living in the age of super computers, Imagine a computer at the NSA which can capture and monitor every phone call made out of the US and into the US, say 2 million calls at any given time. Imagine that this computer has a complex program that includes speach and voice recognition, and looks for certain patterns of calls to and from millions of locations, and looks for patterns of words.
When it finds something it writes it to a database and assigns a priority to it so it can pass through another set of programs on another super computer.
Eventually a human being will be allerted if over a certain time span there are repeats of the pattern being sought. This may take a day, a week, a month, 6 months.
How would one go about getting a warrant for the initial 2 million calls, when one doesnt know the location, or the number in advance.
72 hours later does one present all 2 million calls to the court for a warrant as described above?????? Imagine at the end of say a month this filtering database has come up with 1,000 locations that need to be checked, but most would have been monitored for the first time more than 72 hours ago.
Bush via his order allows the above to happen and the FBI to check out after the fact 20 of the 400,000,000 calls/ locations that were fed into the database and super computers that month.
That is what we are talking about.
Unfortunately Now that I have revealed this top secret, you will all have to be TERMINATED
JUST KIDDING
In order to get a warrant you need to name the phone number/ location / person, and provide some idea of the thing you are searching for.
Now imagine we are living in the age of super computers, Imagine a computer at the NSA which can capture and monitor every phone call made out of the US and into the US, say 2 million calls at any given time. Imagine that this computer has a complex program that includes speach and voice recognition, and looks for certain patterns of calls to and from millions of locations, and looks for patterns of words.
When it finds something it writes it to a database and assigns a priority to it so it can pass through another set of programs on another super computer.
Eventually a human being will be allerted if over a certain time span there are repeats of the pattern being sought. This may take a day, a week, a month, 6 months.
How would one go about getting a warrant for the initial 2 million calls, when one doesnt know the location, or the number in advance.
72 hours later does one present all 2 million calls to the court for a warrant as described above?????? Imagine at the end of say a month this filtering database has come up with 1,000 locations that need to be checked, but most would have been monitored for the first time more than 72 hours ago.
Bush via his order allows the above to happen and the FBI to check out after the fact 20 of the 400,000,000 calls/ locations that were fed into the database and super computers that month.
That is what we are talking about.
Unfortunately Now that I have revealed this top secret, you will all have to be TERMINATED
JUST KIDDING
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