Spy court judge quits in protest

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bakert said:
These "Americans" that were eavesdropped on were a very people that there were real concerns about and were being monitored in various ways already.

Ummm...like the Quakers?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10454316/

I am all for the WOT, but lets actually keep the TERRORISTS under a microscope, not grannies at church meetings. I am a little weary of the carte blanche as its clear that person writing that check keeps buying white elephants unrelated to the goal.

Trust is a two way street
 
Some here on this discussion (and few specific people especially) are maintaining a partisan position (Democrat this, Clinton that) - and one that leads them blindly. It is the current issue and direction we are in, whoever is the master of the house at the time. In fact, I wonder how some of you same people here would be if the current Administration were bypassing FISA and other procedural laws to infringe on your 2nd Amendment rights, and were "finger printing" and siezing your guns for "inspection"?

Originally Posted by pax
Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago. -- Bernard Berenson

Pax - That's a great quote. I need to communicate this @ work!
 
I'd like to buy that Judge a brew and I hope that more of his buds follow.

Biker +1

I'd much rather buy him a beer if he were staying on the court and monkey-wrenching it.
 
Lobotomy Boy said:
My prediction? Based on the lame excuses parroted by the Bush apologists (Squawk! War on terror! War on terror! 3000 dead! 3000 dead! Squawk!), I see people turning away from the Republican party in droves. We'll have a reactionary Democratic congress in 2006 followed by a Democratic president in 2008 so liberal that he or she will make Kerry look like a John Bircher.


Now THERE is an optimist.
 
Now THERE is an optimist.
You say that like being a pessimist is a bad thing. :uhoh:

pax

The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. -- George F. Will
 
odysseus said:
In fact, I wonder how some of you same people here would be if the current Administration were bypassing FISA and other procedural laws to infringe on your 2nd Amendment rights, and were "finger printing" and siezing your guns for "inspection"?

Not a great example, since the courts don't like guns anyway. It would just be a total conspiracy.
 
RealGun said:
Not a great example, since the courts don't like guns anyway. It would just be a total conspiracy.

Huh? Please elaborate on what you mean on how these type of bending and abuses couldn't be also done to other Constitutional rights? It's not like it hasn't been done already.
 
odysseus said:
Huh? Please elaborate on what you mean on how these type of bending and abuses couldn't be also done to other Constitutional rights?

That's not my interest. Involving FISA wouldn't necessarily prevent abuses of gun owners. These are the same District Judges who won't hear gun cases.
 
So, he didn't like this from 2001 but only now resigns? Yeah, he really has the courage of his convictions, doesn't he?
The delay might have something to do with the fact that BUSH's actions, started in 2001, were secret until just recently.... You can't resign in protest, unless you know they're doing it.
 
Walt Sherrill said:
The delay might have something to do with the fact that BUSH's actions, started in 2001, were secret until just recently.... You can't resign in protest, unless you know they're doing it.

That's possible, but apparently at least Judge Kollar-Kotelly was aware of the possibility, per the NY Times article that outed this in the first place:

NY Times said:
In mid-2004, concerns about the program expressed by national security officials, government lawyers and a judge prompted the Bush administration to suspend elements of the program and revamp it.

For the first time, the Justice Department audited the N.S.A. program, several officials said. And to provide more guidance, the Justice Department and the agency expanded and refined a checklist to follow in deciding whether probable cause existed to start monitoring someone's communications, several officials said.

A complaint from Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly, the federal judge who oversees the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Court, helped spur the suspension, officials said. The judge questioned whether information obtained under the N.S.A. program was being improperly used as the basis for F.I.S.A. wiretap warrant requests from the Justice Department, according to senior government officials. While not knowing all the details of the exchange, several government lawyers said there appeared to be concerns that the Justice Department, by trying to shield the existence of the N.S.A. program, was in danger of misleading the court about the origins of the information cited to justify the warrants.

One official familiar with the episode said the judge insisted to Justice Department lawyers at one point that any material gathered under the special N.S.A. program not be used in seeking wiretap warrants from her court. Judge Kollar-Kotelly did not return calls for comment.
 
Boy it sure is nice to see the partisans holler.

Let's see, we have the "Defend Bush at all cost". Come on guys, you are the same ones that complain constantly of the constant attacks on Bush, yet you fail to realize that you are nothing but the other side of the coin of extremes.

Then we have the "Another Dem down" people. All I can say is that I am glad we have the two party system, or you might not know who to point at.

Look, what is being done by the government is atrocious and beyond reprehension. This is the government abusing the rights of its citizens. Be it Democrat or Republican, the ones that attack the rights and liberties of their people should be voted for from the roof tops.
 
MrTuffPaws said:
Be it Democrat or Republican, the ones that attack the rights and liberties of their people should be voted for from the roof tops.

How about we talk about voting them out of office before discussing assassinating them?
 
RealGun said:
That's not my interest. Involving FISA wouldn't necessarily prevent abuses of gun owners.

It's an example there fella. And I will just agree to disagree, the logic is being twisted here. Allowing the Cherry-picking of Amendment violations is not conducive to maintaining the rights of other protected rights. There.
 
Igloodude said:
That's possible, but apparently at least Judge Kollar-Kotelly was aware of the possibility, per the NY Times article that outed this in the first place:

So, she knew about it, and decided to quit when it became public and was politically advantageous to do so? Sounds like she's thinking of making a run for public office.
 
MrTuffPaws said:
Boy it sure is nice to see the partisans holler.

Let's see, we have the "Defend Bush at all cost". Come on guys, you are the same ones that complain constantly of the constant attacks on Bush, yet you fail to realize that you are nothing but the other side of the coin of extremes.

Then we have the "Another Dem down" people. All I can say is that I am glad we have the two party system, or you might not know who to point at.

Look, what is being done by the government is atrocious and beyond reprehension. This is the government abusing the rights of its citizens. Be it Democrat or Republican, the ones that attack the rights and liberties of their people should be voted for from the roof tops.

Then there are those who think the sky is falling, exactly on cue, just the way the MSM planned and spun it.
 
MrTuffPaws said:
Let's see, we have the "Defend Bush at all cost"...

Not really... just defend Bush because 1) he's right, 2) we are at war, and 3) he's right.

When he makes a wrong decision I'll be first and foremost in his face, but so far the President has delivered what he promised in his campaign, been an effective force in the war on terror, and kept the economy on an even keel. He gets my vote, not as you say "at all cost" but by demonstrated performance.
 
Camp David said:
and kept the economy on an even keel.

Thread drift, but ohh.. you must please elaborate on that one. And please back up your assumption on what the President's influence is on the economy and GDP. I mean all your other points certainly have points for and against them, but this one... oh boy.
 
odysseus said:
Thread drift, but ohh.. you must please elaborate on that one...

What's the Stock Market at right now?
10,826.53; up 20.98 just today! Up 1,000 this month alone.

What is the GDP at right now?
[consumption + investment + (exports − imports)]
"Real gross domestic product -- the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States -- increased at an annual rate of 4.1 percent in the third quarter of 2005, according to final estimates released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the second quarter, real
GDP increased 3.3 percent."

What's the Unemployment Rate at right now?
4.9 %, it was at 4.0% earlier in 2000 (stability is key here)

Like I said, GWB has kept the economy on an even keel.
 
Camp David said:
What's the Stock Market at right now?
10,826.53; up 20.98 just today! Up 1,000 this month alone.

What is the GDP at right now?
[consumption + investment + (exports − imports)]
"Real gross domestic product -- the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States -- increased at an annual rate of 4.1 percent in the third quarter of 2005, according to final estimates released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the second quarter, real
GDP increased 3.3 percent."

What's the Unemployment Rate at right now?
4.9 %, it was at 4.0% earlier in 2000 (stability is key here)

Like I said, GWB has kept the economy on an even keel.

Yes, yes I can look up the same facts off the Net too. Also you are ignoring others, which reveals things to me. However that's here nor there. What you didn't do is again, explain how our current President caused this as you claim.
 
"What I've heard some of the judges say is they feel they've participated in a Potemkin court."

I'm sorry, but a judge who's sat on FISA's secret rubber stamp doesn't have ANY ROOM to complain about GW's actions. That court is a sick joke. Totally meaningless window dressing. The judges are just mad because GW did what they've been doing for years.
 
odysseus said:
What you didn't do is again, explain how our current President caused this as you claim.

cutting taxes... simple as that... numerous articles in Forbes and Fortune magazines have highlighted this as the main catalyst...
 
Camp David said:
What's the Stock Market at right now?
10,826.53; up 20.98 just today! Up 1,000 this month alone.

What is the GDP at right now?
[consumption + investment + (exports − imports)]
"Real gross domestic product -- the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States -- increased at an annual rate of 4.1 percent in the third quarter of 2005, according to final estimates released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the second quarter, real
GDP increased 3.3 percent."

What's the Unemployment Rate at right now?
4.9 %, it was at 4.0% earlier in 2000 (stability is key here)

Like I said, GWB has kept the economy on an even keel.


With facts like that, you must have loved Clinton ;)
 
buzz_knox said:
So, she knew about it, and decided to quit when it became public and was politically advantageous to do so? Sounds like she's thinking of making a run for public office.

She's not the one that quit, I gather she's the head judge of the FISA court and Robinson (the one that quit) is an "associate justice" or something.

Anyway, her complaints in 2004 apparently led to at least a minor shake-up, if we can believe the New York Times.
 
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