justice06rr
Member
I saw that Smith&Wesson desert torture test video of the M&P Sport and was pretty impressed. Although if you are a picky individual, I would opt for the regular version of the M&P15 with the DC and FA.
Stag or S&W AR?
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I saw that Smith&Wesson desert torture test video of the M&P Sport and was pretty impressed. Although if you are a picky individual, I would opt for the regular version of the M&P15 with the DC and FA.
meanmrmustard
Member
Technically, the thing really only lacks DC. The scallop in the bolt can be used as FA, either with a gloved hand if hot, or pretty much anything rigid enough to push it till its chambered the round. As for DCs, look at my post history: I don't believe in em. But, some folks do. Never found myself buried in snow during winter deer hunts wishing I had that stuff, or crawling around crick bottoms looking for old yotes.
Infidel4life11
Member
My money would go to S&W, I have a sport and if you really need a DC and FA other S&W models have those too. I've got a buddy who came up in the Army with me and he has a stag and he has shot every AR I've ever owned he's always enjoyed his stag more til he shot my bare bones sport 2days ago now he wants the sport.
Infidel4life11
Member
haha you said crick, everybody makes fun of me for saying that so I never type it.
meanmrmustard
Member
Sticks n stones, but crick bottoms is where I does my best huntin by golly!
Yeah, I get it. I say "crick", folks automatically deduct 100 IQ points.
SwampWolf
Member
I don't know why. Everybody knows a crick is a small creek...
meanmrmustard
Member
Hit_Factor
Member
I thought Stag made the ARs for S&W, so which is better? Both.
Sent by someone using something.
Sent by someone using something.
meanmrmustard
Member
Not so, unless at one time they did, which may be so. They do not, however, at this time use Stag. Their barrels are TC, but they're owned by S&W now. Other than that, in house to my knowledge.
Choices
I did a bunch of looking and decided on a Stag Model 3r. As is the gun is fully featured but comes without sights and included a drop in modular rail system. I bought the very cool flip sights by DiamondHead and have an Eotech XPS2 that I will co witness. The Stags imported into Canada come with the "plus" package which upgrades the internals to Mil spec. Stags have a good rep here and I'm a happy camper with the carbine as is. I have also take delivery of a dedicated CMMG .22 upper per and so am well equipped for how I like to shoot. I will compete in carbine matches this winter while in Texas and will use the .22 upper for Steel Challenge.
Dang these AR's are fun!!
I did a bunch of looking and decided on a Stag Model 3r. As is the gun is fully featured but comes without sights and included a drop in modular rail system. I bought the very cool flip sights by DiamondHead and have an Eotech XPS2 that I will co witness. The Stags imported into Canada come with the "plus" package which upgrades the internals to Mil spec. Stags have a good rep here and I'm a happy camper with the carbine as is. I have also take delivery of a dedicated CMMG .22 upper per and so am well equipped for how I like to shoot. I will compete in carbine matches this winter while in Texas and will use the .22 upper for Steel Challenge.
Dang these AR's are fun!!
Tom609
Member
I have the S&W Sport and have been thoroughly satisfied. Dollar for dollar, the best value out there. As far as where it's made, American Rifleman (TV) had an episode on them a few months ago and they are built totally in-house.
I own a Stag model 3 and its been a great rifle for me. I'm not in the desert nor using it to fight for my life but it hasn't had a single issue after 700-800 rounds (which in the grand scheme of things is a drop in the bucket if you plan to run it hard). I recently upgraded to a Noveske lower and a BCM upper but that was my goal to begin to with it definetly had nothing to do with the performance of my Stag. Stag makes a hell of a rifle and if I'm not mistaken they do offer plus packages with the rifles for an extra $100 the barrel and a few other key componets are upgraded to mil spec. but I haven't looked in awhile so do your own research on that. Stag also has a lifetime warranty on their rifles, I'm not sure what S&W offers but I believe a previous poster mentioned a year warranty which doesn't sound very appealing to me personally. All in all your not gonna get screwed if you choose one over the over as I've shot a few M&P's and they are excellent as well.
DNS
Member
Smith.
The 5R rifling makes for great accuracy. Its waaaay outshot what some consider top tier rifles.
The 5R rifling makes for great accuracy. Its waaaay outshot what some consider top tier rifles.
henschman
Member
Does anybody know the specs on the parts Stag uses? They don't say on their website, other than saying they have "mil spec" uppers. Any idea what grade steel the bolt and barrel are made of? Whether the gas key screws are staked in? Whether either the barrel or bolt is high pressure tested or magnetic particle inspected? That's the kind of stuff I like to know before I go out and buy something, and when a company doesn't list the specs, it makes me wonder why. That's why I like PSA and BCM -- they list all the relevant specs for you to see.
It appears to me that while Stag rifles do offer chrome lined barrels, they are only available with 1/9 twist. That's fine if all you shoot is surplus, but I greatly prefer the 1/8 twist that the S&W Sport has. It will shoot any surplus AND it will shoot the heaviest bullets you can fit in a mag. Also I prefer the nitrided barrel on the Sport to chrome... I hope that is a trend that catches on in the gun world.
As for the construction of the Smith, I have opened one, and it had a MPI-marked bolt with the gas key screws staked properly. I don't think the barrel is MPI, but I know Thompson-Center makes them for Smith, and TC makes a good barrel. If not entirely mil-spec, I think the Smith offers very good quality for the price.
It appears to me that while Stag rifles do offer chrome lined barrels, they are only available with 1/9 twist. That's fine if all you shoot is surplus, but I greatly prefer the 1/8 twist that the S&W Sport has. It will shoot any surplus AND it will shoot the heaviest bullets you can fit in a mag. Also I prefer the nitrided barrel on the Sport to chrome... I hope that is a trend that catches on in the gun world.
As for the construction of the Smith, I have opened one, and it had a MPI-marked bolt with the gas key screws staked properly. I don't think the barrel is MPI, but I know Thompson-Center makes them for Smith, and TC makes a good barrel. If not entirely mil-spec, I think the Smith offers very good quality for the price.
I know that their bolts are shot peened, milspec lower...etc, I can't paste the link or get more in depth at the moment due to being at work but if anyone is concerned with milspec Stag does offer the "plus package" which is only an extra $100 that makes the rifle completly milspec...good deal if you ask me and if thats the limit of your budget. However, for another $100-200 you could buy a Colt or BCM but I know that extra $100-200 can be a deal breaker for some...I know it is for me. So check out the plus package deal, I don't believe S&W has a deal like that but I'm not as familiar with S&W as I am Stag.
From Stagarms.com:
For those wanting a rifle with extra testing and also with features for the constant firing of 5.56 ammunition Stag Arms offers the Plus Package. This package includes individual Magnetic Particle (MP) and High Pressure (HP) testing of the bolt and barrel, upgraded barrel steel, and other features listed below. Available only as a complete package.
Stag Arms standard carbines (Model 1, 2, 2T, 3, 8 and their left-handed equivalents) feature:
- Carpenter 158 shot peened Bolt with black extractor spring
- Shrouded full circle AR15 bolt carrier with side staked carrier key
- 5.56 NATO chambered barrel with chrome lining, 1/9 twist, double lead lapped, and parkerized under the front sight base
- M4 feed ramps
- F marked front sight base with taper pins
- Double heatshield handguards
- Mil-Spec size 7000 series aluminum receiver extension with staked receiver nut (also known as castle nut)
- One 30rd USGI Magazine*
In addition to our standard features listed above the Plus Package includes:
- 4150 CMV barrel steel chrome lined
- 1/7 Twist rifling
- Individually MP & HP tested and marked Bolt & Barrel
- M-16 Bolt Carrier
- Heavy (H) buffer assembly
- One extra 30rd USGI Magazine (two total)*
Cost:
Rifle: $100
Upper half: $75.00 (Does not include magazine or heavy buffer)
From Stagarms.com:
For those wanting a rifle with extra testing and also with features for the constant firing of 5.56 ammunition Stag Arms offers the Plus Package. This package includes individual Magnetic Particle (MP) and High Pressure (HP) testing of the bolt and barrel, upgraded barrel steel, and other features listed below. Available only as a complete package.
Stag Arms standard carbines (Model 1, 2, 2T, 3, 8 and their left-handed equivalents) feature:
- Carpenter 158 shot peened Bolt with black extractor spring
- Shrouded full circle AR15 bolt carrier with side staked carrier key
- 5.56 NATO chambered barrel with chrome lining, 1/9 twist, double lead lapped, and parkerized under the front sight base
- M4 feed ramps
- F marked front sight base with taper pins
- Double heatshield handguards
- Mil-Spec size 7000 series aluminum receiver extension with staked receiver nut (also known as castle nut)
- One 30rd USGI Magazine*
In addition to our standard features listed above the Plus Package includes:
- 4150 CMV barrel steel chrome lined
- 1/7 Twist rifling
- Individually MP & HP tested and marked Bolt & Barrel
- M-16 Bolt Carrier
- Heavy (H) buffer assembly
- One extra 30rd USGI Magazine (two total)*
Cost:
Rifle: $100
Upper half: $75.00 (Does not include magazine or heavy buffer)
People don't consider rifles Top Tier because they make small groups on paper at the range. That is not the goal of the gun or the intended use of most of the people who care to buy them.
If shooting for groups is the purpose of the gun you are probably better served with the Smith.
If betting your life on the reliability and durability of the gun (LE, HD, SHTF, etc), or if takinge courses or other activities that qualify as hard use is the purpose of the gun, you are probably better served with a Top Tier rifle.
henschman
Member
Damn, that Stag with the plus package sounds like a really solid rifle. How much are they? I still wish they had more options as far as barrel length/profile and gas system length though. That is one thing that makes me really like PSA.
I believe the model 3 on stagarms.com was listed at $865 so throw a hundred on top of that your looking at a little over $1000 with ffl fees and shipping. Not a bad deal at all but I'm sure if you shopped around you could find the plus package deal for the same price as the standard model just not on stagarms.com obviously. Then the obvious argument arises that for another $100-200 you could get a "top tier" rifle but I know alot of people who don't want to or can't spend more than a grand on a rifle so that plus package sounds like a hell of a deal to me personally.
You can get a top tier rifle for "a little over $1,000"
Well, currently in stock you can get a Colt for $975, plus I suppose shipping and transfer fee.
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/COAR6720.aspx
If you are serious I'd jump on it. They had about 4 different Colts in stock for right at $1k several weeks ago and are down to just the 6720 for $975 now. The 6920 and 6920MP (which they had in two different colors) have all gone out of stock.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
Member
The fact of the matter is no AR (without a tax stamp) is 100% milspec. The lower receivers need more milling for the milspec trigger group to fit.
Stag made the earlier S&W's. S&W now makes them in house. Either are fine rifles but if you get caught up in milspec, go pay $15,000 for a real tri burst AR.
The Sport is one tough cookie, but the Stag is honestly a great all around rifle. Either will work for 99.9% of the AR owners, it is a very few people that treat their weapons as poorly as the military....
Stag made the earlier S&W's. S&W now makes them in house. Either are fine rifles but if you get caught up in milspec, go pay $15,000 for a real tri burst AR.
The Sport is one tough cookie, but the Stag is honestly a great all around rifle. Either will work for 99.9% of the AR owners, it is a very few people that treat their weapons as poorly as the military....
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