Stay off my lawn!

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I wonder if this guy ever hired a pool boy?

Any minute somone will show up and side with the shooter saying he was only prodecting his soveriegn property rights.
 
There is absolutely no way to justify shooting someone for walking on your lawn, no matter how many times you asked him not too, or what his parents may have told him.

The old guy is obviously mentally disturbed, but premeditated this act, so 1st degree murder for him. He can put a no trespassing sign on a chia pet in prison.

There is a difference between the actions being justified and the situation (stoked by both sides) exploding. This sounds like the latter. There are times when, although the consequences that happen are not justified, those same consequences were invited. While it may not be your fault if you are mugged, you would certainly be inviting it if you were walking through a lousy neighborhood flashing a large roll of cash. While it may not be your fault if you are killed, vandalizing the Harleys of a biker gang is extremely unwise. Such things make you candidates for a Darwin award.

If there was antagonism between this guy and this family, it is entirely possible that this kid was trying to PO the old fella. Well, he succeeded.

Moral: don't aggravate people on purpose, you never know how they will react.
 
I can't believe there could of been enough of a neighbor feud to justify murdering a 15 year old. I am sure there is more to the story than we know but I hope the guy doesn't get off on some type of mental illness plea. Perhaps we will learn more about the real motive(s).

Some bad events can strike the funny bone but this tragedy shouldn't be made fun of.
 
I was shot by a crazy guy with a shotgun when I was much younger, for sneaking over to get a ball.

Vex said:
I wonder... what's the right size shot for teenagers on your lawn?

Rocksalt, at least thats what I was shot with.
 
Biker, no offense intended. I was referring to the less savory stereotypical bikers, not the vast majority of you. :D

Apparently, (saw this story on Fox News) this kid was a little punk, harassing the old guy and getting his friends to do the same. It doesn't justify shooting him, but quite honestly, his parents should have reigned him in. It just reinforces a simple fact about parenting:

You can discipline your kids when they do wrong, and you know it will be done in love, with the desire to create reform. If you do not, then others will discipline your children when they are older, it will be done in vengeance, and the desire will not be to create reform- it will be to create harm. You pick.

His parents chose option #2. Now they will bury their son. See why real parenting is necessary?
 
I have always been overly crazy about my lawn as well; even as a kid growing up. Once, when I was in Junior high, I shot a dog in the butt with a Benjamin for taking a dump on my lawn. Reading the article made me think of that. :uhoh:
 
I with Technosavant. It ain't right to shoot the kid, but this was obviously a long time coming and the parents and kid share a little responsibility here.

Another example is if you flip off another driver and that driver gets pissed with road rage and follows you or worse. Yeah, he shouldn't do that, but then you shouldn't have flipped him off in the first place. There was a long thread a while back about an incident between a bicylist and a driver. Lots of cyclists on this forum were complaining about drivers running them off the road and stuff. Almost every story included the cyclists flipping off the driver to start the confrontation.

I don't want to excuse actions like that, but you reap what you sow. If you tempt fate repeatedly, fate may just be waiting for you next time.
 
For some reason this didn't bother me much other than as use as propoganda for the other side. I do wish the old fellow would have just taken a bat to the kid's kneecap instead though so he doesn't live out his remaining years in prison.
If parents don't raise their kids right sometimes they get killed....
CT
 
This sucks. Every story like this gives credibility to the anti-RKBA argument that ordinary citizens can't be trusted to have firearms. And the wishy-washy reaction of some on fourms like this doesn't help, either.

I'm with you there. This tragic event is not the time for one to bring out his/her best pun or comedy line.
 
Kill the Nieghbors

He snapped at something that had been building up. I can relate to him and how easy it was for him to snap.....

I've had some issues with neighboring kids going through my puny little yard (they moved in Nov). To try to keep the peace, I tried to keep quiet......Their 14-16 yr old girl was too lazy to walk into the street of the cul-de-sac, so she used our yard as her "short-cut". Just about every day, she'd walk right past the hedges in the front yard, often peering into the house. All her punk-friends would do the same thing. I often had kids that I had no idea who they were, or where they lived, walking through my yard and often looking inside of the house. They sometimes brushed against my cars and would even climb or hang on my two huge Bradford Pear trees. The Bradford Pears were so big, that I actually lost two branches in a storm and often was afraid of loosing more, resulting in me having to cut the trees down, or a branch breaking while the kids were climbing them and me getting sued. I once came home from work and found five of them sitting in a circle in my yard playing with a puppy, and one of the kids was sitting on my front poarch. This type of activity continued, even after asking her to stay out of the yard. If I said something, she'd stay out of the yard for a few days, but would still walk through it if she thought I wasn't home (I often will ride my motorcycle and the car will still be in the driveway).

When I was growing up, I was taught to respect my neighbor's property. I remember walking around the perimeter of yards to take "short-cuts", while not walking through certain yards, especially those of people who didn't have children of their own. Anyway.....

This one time, I'd had enough of it. I was talking to my wife while pulling into the subdivision. She told me that a group of 8 or so kids were walking through the front yard and hanging on the trees, again. When I got to the house, only the neighbor kid was within earshot, so I told her to tell her freinds to stay the f*ck out of my yard and to quit hanging on the trees in my yard. She snapped back with a string of profanities, telling me, for the most part, it was none of her concern. From that point on, I was constantly having trash thrown in my front and back yards and rocks large enough to potentially damage my lawn mower. At first I picked it up and threw it away, then, I started kicking it in the street. If I kicked the trash into the street, they'd make it a point to throw it back into my yard. I even set up a video camera in the window, but made it fairly easy for them to see from the yard. Amazingly, the trash in my yard stopped any time the video camera was in the window.

My main dilemma was that the parents wouldn't do anything about it. I'd had enough run-ins with them, such as for their kids and friends parking their cars where they were blocking my driveway, that I knew they wouldn't do anything about it. They let the kids do whatever they wanted, and often, would leave on their pontoon boat for a whole weekend, while the kids stayed home. I was thinking of getting them on film and getting trespass warrants, but I know they'd just get other friends to come walk through the yard or throw trash in the yard (or who knows what else), so it was essentially a no-win situation. Vicki and I were starting to look for property elsewhere. We'd considered a split-rail fence, but figured that would promote them to sit on it, and probably climb it just to further tick me off. I'm just glad that they moved this past November, because I was starting to get at my wit's end with them. The whole family was nothing but white-trash, anyway.....

Yeah, I can see where the guy was coming from. He did go overboard, but, I know where his thinking came from.
 
Wow. Just wow. Sounds like some of you shouldn't own a Nerf gun, let alone a firearm. I'm glad none of you lived on Schofield Barracks when I was a child. I think I must have run through every lawn and climbed every tree in a 15 block radius of our apartment. Killing a kid is not the way to deal with a neighbor dispute, not matter how obnoxious he might have been. The kid did not deserve to die for stepping on someone's precious grass.

Mr. Martin is an aberation that needs to be removed from society. And so are those here saying the kid got what's coming to him.
 
I’m with Technosavant and MechAg94. While it is a shame that the kid was killed, and that the old man will spend the rest of his days locked up, it is kids and the parents fault.

If the parents had raised their kid correctly to respect other people and their property this wouldn’t have happened. Yes, the guy over stepped his bounds when he killed the kid, but the kid had it coming. This kid would end up doing the same type of crap for his entire life, and eventually he would pay for it. In this case, he is an early learner/recipient of the rules of life.

You don’t just mess with people and piss them off continuously, which in this case is 5 years, with out something eventually happening. This is the same thing as the bully continuously backing his victim into the wall… at which point the victim eventually has enough and bloodies the bully’s nose. Honestly I don’t feel sorry for the kid, nor anyone that keeps pushing someone’s buttons until they snap. If the kid or his family didn’t have a history of agitating their neighbor and the end result was still the same, then that would be different. The fact it resulted in his death, which is unfortunate, and as CentralTexas said, a broken kneecap would have been sufficient, or even rock salt into his but.

MechAg94’s example of flipping off another driver in traffic is a good one. My belief is that if you feel “big enough” to flip someone off, you really should be ready to deal with the consequences. Some days may end with the gesture being returned, you getting the crap kicked out of you for being a smart ass, or a lunatic killing you over it. But while you may be responding to some one’s poor driving abilities, you are further agitating them, and should be fully prepared with the end result.

But I’m not going to feel sorry for this kid simply because he was 15. The kid appears to have been an arrogant little punk whose air of invincibility got him killed. It seems that the last group of people you would want to pick on are those in their 60’s or older. They have lived their life, they probably don’t have a whole lot of it left. So why should they care if they kill some punk kid and spend the rest of their short life in prison?

If there hadn’t been a history between the two neighbors, or if it was just some random kid who stepped on the wrong yard got killed, then outrage is justified and the guy is a certified nut. I don’t mind kids being kids and doing goofy stuff. But the kid had a long history with this neighbor and was trying to agitate him, and that got him killed.

The end result didn't justify the old man in shooting the kid, but the kids actions brought it upon himself.

Rant mode off:

Cyanide
 
I must say that I am disgusted by the comment some have made in this thread. The boy is a punk? How do you define punk? Was he doing something you didn't do a s a kid? :fire:

Darwin wins again? Disgusting. A 15yr old was killed. You should be ashamed. In the accounts I have read the only reason the guy gave for the shooting was "he kept walking on my lawn". The fact that this guy lived into his 60's is an example of "Dawin losing again". :fire:

As for the kid and parents sharing the blame..no way.They may have blame that their child was walking in the neigbors yard but that is about it. They are not resposible for some loon pulling out a gun and shooting a child over such an incident. The shooter is solely to blame for that extreme action. :fire:

As for people coming down on the members of this board for being "wishy-washy" and not supporting him simply because he is a gun owner... that is a load of crap. If you even begin to think that way maybe YOU should NOT have a gun. :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:
 
Sad a young man (kid) would lose his life over walking on grass.
No reason to shoot the kid in the chest with a shot gun.
 
The man is responsible for his actions and his actions sound like voluntary manslaughter at the very least. However, from what I understand there was a history of friction between the shooter and the family of the teenager among others. The dead teenager's parents should have had enough foresight to forbid their teenage son to trespass on neighbor short fuse's property. If the parents in fact had such a discussion with their son and he ignored the parental guidelines, then we're also dealing with a Darwin award here.

This man is a coward. I would not be at all suprised if he was completely silent on these "problems" right up untill the time that he shot the kid. I can just imagine this guy silently fuming away but lacking the stones to say anything about it.

I've had a neighbor like that. He didnt like that I parked my car on the street. Did I ever hear a word for him? Nope, after a year of this he called the cops instead, the poor officer was embarrassed to be on my porch and said that my neighbor had been calling them every other day for several months. He mentioned that parking on the street was perfectly legal but it would be a favor to the police if I moved it, I did. There is a whole breed of people that are actually scared to confront someone over even the simplest matters. I bet the only time this guy felt like a man was when he held a shotgun, notice that he didnt even have the fortitude to shoot the dad, he had to go after the kid.
 
What really cracks me up is that some comments in this thread is all about how the shooter was only defending his property against a punk 15-year old, and the kid deserved it.

What really cracks me up in http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=190086 thread is that the ICE agent was only defending his son from a school bully, but somehow he's a horrible man.

Oh, I see the difference: It's okay when a deranged old man shoots a kid, but as soon as a government employee is the perp, it's "Oh my god take up arms, revolution, revolution, revolution!"

Disgusting.
 
Erinyes...

I lived at Schofield Barracks as a kid for awhile in the late 60s early 70s. I bet the MPs *still* remember me.
Biker:uhoh:
 
PlayboyPenguin, I agree with your last posting. Sad to hear of such an unnecessary event happening. Sad for the child, his family, lawful firearms owners, and the shooter. The shooter apparently lost his temper and will pay.

This event should give you or anyone an indication of what will happen if "you defend your property" and not your person with a firearm.
 
it takes a nutcase to shoot a kid for walking on his lawn, but there are a lot of nutcases out there.

i know intentionally angering old people is part of being a teenager, but young people need to understand that there are people out there who will take things too far.

i'm not siding with the shooter. i feel for the victim's family. i just think that you should stay off other people's property unless you are invited, for the simple fact that some people are crazy.
 
Two shots from a .410 for walking on this?

0321lawn.jpg


I think there's more in play here than just a simple problem with walking on the grass.

John
 
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