ReadyontheRight
Member
This nutbag needs either the death penalty or to spend life in prison.
Stay off my lawn!
- Thread starter Vex
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mbs357
Member
My neighbors are really bad for coming through my lawn.
They'll head straight from their door, across my lawn (able to touch my front porch and see me clearly through my window) to the sidewalk.
Further than that, they often hang out in the side closest to them, goofing off and horseplaying at all hours of the night...blowing horns, loud, offensive music, screaming, yelling, laughing, cursing...
They even once parked a truck in my yard directly in front of my window.
Often times I've wanted to call the police...but since I don't pay the rent, I haven't said anything...grandma is too...timid I guess to do anything about it.
However, not once has it occured to me to shoot them...it's got me thinking, I must admit...
They'll head straight from their door, across my lawn (able to touch my front porch and see me clearly through my window) to the sidewalk.
Further than that, they often hang out in the side closest to them, goofing off and horseplaying at all hours of the night...blowing horns, loud, offensive music, screaming, yelling, laughing, cursing...
They even once parked a truck in my yard directly in front of my window.
Often times I've wanted to call the police...but since I don't pay the rent, I haven't said anything...grandma is too...timid I guess to do anything about it.
However, not once has it occured to me to shoot them...it's got me thinking, I must admit...
MrTwigg
Member
Parental failure.
Before I start I will say the Charles Martin should not have shot Larry Mugrage for merely walking across his lawn. The paper states this went on for five years. What else went on ?
A couple of folks here got things right, in my opinion. It is the parents fault. They failed to raise a child who is respectful of his neighbors. They also raised a bully. Constantly engaging in passive-aggressive behavior like continuing to trespass over an other’s property especially when you know it’s going to push the guy’s hot button is no better than stealing some little kid’s lunch money.
Charles Martin lived alone “quietly”, and all he had was his lawn. The lawn was the old man’s life fer crying out loud ! (OK, I saw the pic of the lawn and he's not much of a greenskeeper.)
I read he had both a US flag and a Navy flag flying in front of his house. It’s possible he is retired military and retired military personnel are used to living in an orderly, disciplined environment. Of course he was upset ! Doesn’t make what he did right.
If Larry Mugrage really was “a good kid” he should have been walking about twenty feet to the side of where he was when he got shot. Larry’s parents need to admit that their failure to instill community values in their child led to their child abusing, not just a member of their community, but the man who lives next door !
Before I start I will say the Charles Martin should not have shot Larry Mugrage for merely walking across his lawn. The paper states this went on for five years. What else went on ?
A couple of folks here got things right, in my opinion. It is the parents fault. They failed to raise a child who is respectful of his neighbors. They also raised a bully. Constantly engaging in passive-aggressive behavior like continuing to trespass over an other’s property especially when you know it’s going to push the guy’s hot button is no better than stealing some little kid’s lunch money.
Charles Martin lived alone “quietly”, and all he had was his lawn. The lawn was the old man’s life fer crying out loud ! (OK, I saw the pic of the lawn and he's not much of a greenskeeper.)
I read he had both a US flag and a Navy flag flying in front of his house. It’s possible he is retired military and retired military personnel are used to living in an orderly, disciplined environment. Of course he was upset ! Doesn’t make what he did right.
If Larry Mugrage really was “a good kid” he should have been walking about twenty feet to the side of where he was when he got shot. Larry’s parents need to admit that their failure to instill community values in their child led to their child abusing, not just a member of their community, but the man who lives next door !
Technosavant
Member
Yes, as a matter of fact, he WAS doing something I didn't do as a kid. When my brother and I had ridden our bikes over a corner of the neighbor's yard, the neighbors mentioned it to my parents. They told us to quit. We did.
I define "punk" as some little cuss who seems to make a hobby of aggravating those around him. The problem with little harassing things like this is that there is not a thing a person can do about it. The police have other things to do than stop it, so they don't even bother with the paperwork. If the kid's parents won't put a halt to it, it will continue. I can identify with the frustration, but not the response. There is no excuse for shooting him. But he didn't wake up one morning and go gunning for the kid. From the news reports I have read, this kid had his buddies constantly aggravating this guy.
If you think that is proper behavior for kids, then I might suggest reconsidering such beliefs. Kids will be kids, but if parents are not parents, you will forever have incidents where the kids misbehave and get slammed for it. It is a shame that people will cluck their tongues and say "what a tragedy that the old man flipped out." They will be correct, but they need to add "and it's a crying shame that the kid's parents didn't raise a thoughtful and considerate young man."
joab
Member
you should excuse yourself if you think that that little blurb provided enough info for the in depth psychiatric and criminal evaluation going on here.
How do you know that all the little darling did was walk across the yard, because a half paragraph unresearched news blip told you so?
How do you know that the old guy didn't yell at the kid and piss him off enough to confront the geezer?
How do you know that the kid didn't pick up a big ole stick or rock on his way over to the old guy?
The old guy had fast access to a gun and that makes it premeditated?
Some of you need to check your hips before making that kind of statement.
So no Cajun Bass I don't see enough info in those 13 sentences to call for a hangin
joab
Member
I swear I only hit the submit button once
Strings
Member
>Biker, no offense intended. I was referring to the less savory stereotypical bikers, not the vast majority of you.<
But... he IS one of those less-savory types... (sorry bro, couldn't resist)...
As has been said, there is NOT enough info here to make a judgement call. However, when I was growing up, we generally tried to respect property rights. If we went somewhere we weren't supposed to, and it got mentioned to our parents, we did NOT go there again...
But... he IS one of those less-savory types... (sorry bro, couldn't resist)...
As has been said, there is NOT enough info here to make a judgement call. However, when I was growing up, we generally tried to respect property rights. If we went somewhere we weren't supposed to, and it got mentioned to our parents, we did NOT go there again...
Strings
Member
I know, bro... you're the type that gives that type a bad reputation... 
BigRobT
Member
I would like to know the FULL story. Five years of aggravation and torment are bound to lead to some bad things. From what we've been told, it makes the old guy seem truly evil. What else has transpired over those five years ?? Were there threats, vandalism, etc that the ill-mannered neighbors conveyed?? After so much abuse, even the most docile animal will eventually bite back.
As a child, I, too, was taught respect for my neighbor's property. I caught my daughter and her friends using our neighbor's yard as a shortcut. I chewed her butt over it. In today's world, there is little respect for other people, let alone their property. I swear that some people think that all property is public property.
As a child, I, too, was taught respect for my neighbor's property. I caught my daughter and her friends using our neighbor's yard as a shortcut. I chewed her butt over it. In today's world, there is little respect for other people, let alone their property. I swear that some people think that all property is public property.
ReadyontheRight
Member
I heard the 911 transcript on the news this morning. This is as close as I could find in print:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/21/national/main1425127.shtml
Yes, the kid was irritating, yes the parents are losers, but, unless there is more evidence, this kid was not threatening Charles Martin when he decided to shoot him.
RKBA is not for blowing away irritating kids.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/21/national/main1425127.shtml
Yes, the kid was irritating, yes the parents are losers, but, unless there is more evidence, this kid was not threatening Charles Martin when he decided to shoot him.
RKBA is not for blowing away irritating kids.
Vex
Member
It's only a matter of time before someone gets the great idea to let 15 year old kids carry a concealed weapon....
Stevie-Ray
Member
Problem arises when you take those live traps out into the wild to release the specimen. Rabbits or Opossums are OK, but kids can be heavy, and we ain't gittin any younger. And the kids always seem to find their way back.
Cosmoline
Member
No question he was a punk. He was probably a punk from a long line of smart alecs and punks. Still, if the fellow had to shoot him he should have used a bean bag. If we went around killing people just for being smart alec punks, how many of us would still be standing
PlayboyPenguin
member
This thread is the firsttime since I came to this board that I am ashamed to be associated with some of it's posters. Trying to find ANY JUSTIFICATION for this behavior is vile at best. The kid stepped on grass. At worst he was trespassing. If this or anything else had been happening to the extent this "wacko" that shot him considered it harrassment then why didn't he call police. This doesn't make him a bad kid so stop trying that weak justification and it doesn't deserve death. As far as the parents go i do not see any info that the kid was trouble in any other way other than stepping on the grass of an obviously disgusting and putrid old man. 
Charles Martin is disconnected from reality, but that doesn't mean his buttons weren't deliberately pushed. So the old guy snapped and the kid is dead. Much will be determined at his mental competency hearing. In any case, he won't be mowing that lawn any more.
That said, the kid probably held the old man in contempt, reflecting his parent's disrespect for their neighbor. That's a problem when you don't get along with your neighbors, still no reason to shoot them. But there is a lesson here for all the button pushers out there. Children and idiots.
We'll probably be hearing he's bi-polar and had a rough childhood.
That said, the kid probably held the old man in contempt, reflecting his parent's disrespect for their neighbor. That's a problem when you don't get along with your neighbors, still no reason to shoot them. But there is a lesson here for all the button pushers out there. Children and idiots.
We'll probably be hearing he's bi-polar and had a rough childhood.
Darrin
Member
Deeep breaths...deeeeeeeep breaths...
No one is justifying the shooting. People are trying to relate how they have been harrassed like this guy has and felt pushed to a boiling point. This isn't justification, it's elaboration...conversation...nothing more. None of us know what truely happened.
Given my past experiences with similar nerve-racking situations, I'd bet my car there was more than just walking across his yard. Perhaps that day all he did was walk across the yard, but what's been going on the last 5 years? Did the kid walk through the yard while holding up the middle finger to this guy? Did he use foul language with the old man? Did he pee in the guy's yard? Who knows...maybe the old man really was off his rocker.
I too feel the kid was pushing his luck. (Giving the information so far...) No, he didn't deserve to get shot, but it sure sounds like he deserved a beating. In fact, as much as I hate to say it, this kid sounds like my nephew. He likes to push other peoples' nerve button. I love my nephew more than anything, but sooner or later, someone's going to beat him silly. Hopefully he won't end up like this kid.
Again, just to clarify, I'm not justifying this as a good shoot...or even an ok shoot. However, I don't think that the kid was entirely innocent. Time will tell...
Two bits of advice.
Do NOT bet your life on someone else's sanity by screwing around with them needlessly.
If you EVER even BEGIN to think that shooting someone is a good way to solve petty disputes, get yourself checked into a mental hospital right away.
Do NOT bet your life on someone else's sanity by screwing around with them needlessly.
If you EVER even BEGIN to think that shooting someone is a good way to solve petty disputes, get yourself checked into a mental hospital right away.
Technosavant
Member
Penguin, you need to go back and reread, and this time try to understand what is being said, instead of projecting upon the posts with which you disagree. But if you want it distilled, here you go:
The basic points thus far:
1) This shooting, any way you paint it, is NOT justified. It may not be 1st degree murder, but 2nd degree is a real possibility.
2) The old man should have sucked it up, this one incident is not a big deal.
3) The young guy was very poorly behaved- he was apparently something of a jerk himself, needlessly aggravating the old guy and getting his friends to do the same
4) Put numerous minor aggravations together, and they can add up tremendously.
5) The kid's parents, unless the kids were truly and completely the kids from hell, were negligent. They could have and should have kept the kid restrained.
6) Some acts, though they may be out of line yet not felonious, can have the gravest of circumstances.
Far too often when young people die as a result of non-illness related means, they are canonized. The fact is, very often their own behavior set the stage for their demise. Street racing doesn't merit a death sentence, but many kids die while doing it. Trespassing doesn't merit a death sentence, but in this case, he did it on the wrong property at the wrong time and in the wrong manner.
The old guy will likely serve the rest of his life in prison, and IMO, it will be deserved. But from the reports I have seen, although his death was not justified, the kid was not himself innocent, and better behavior on his part would have resulted in a much longer life.
It isn't pretty, but very often, that is just how the truth is. Truly innocent people are in short supply, and we need to remember that even the most minor of slights can set in motion a chain of events with a sudden stop at the end.
The basic points thus far:
1) This shooting, any way you paint it, is NOT justified. It may not be 1st degree murder, but 2nd degree is a real possibility.
2) The old man should have sucked it up, this one incident is not a big deal.
3) The young guy was very poorly behaved- he was apparently something of a jerk himself, needlessly aggravating the old guy and getting his friends to do the same
4) Put numerous minor aggravations together, and they can add up tremendously.
5) The kid's parents, unless the kids were truly and completely the kids from hell, were negligent. They could have and should have kept the kid restrained.
6) Some acts, though they may be out of line yet not felonious, can have the gravest of circumstances.
Far too often when young people die as a result of non-illness related means, they are canonized. The fact is, very often their own behavior set the stage for their demise. Street racing doesn't merit a death sentence, but many kids die while doing it. Trespassing doesn't merit a death sentence, but in this case, he did it on the wrong property at the wrong time and in the wrong manner.
The old guy will likely serve the rest of his life in prison, and IMO, it will be deserved. But from the reports I have seen, although his death was not justified, the kid was not himself innocent, and better behavior on his part would have resulted in a much longer life.
It isn't pretty, but very often, that is just how the truth is. Truly innocent people are in short supply, and we need to remember that even the most minor of slights can set in motion a chain of events with a sudden stop at the end.
Vex
Member
In Ohio (where this happened), we don't have different degrees of "murder." The law is covered under section 2903 of the ORC.
PlayboyPenguin
member
Technosavant
I completely disagree. Unless information comes forward that the kid did a whole lot more than cut across this guys lawn I do not see where this kid is "rotten" or a "punk" or any such thing. In the confession this guy made all he sighted was the kid walked on his lawn. These years of harrassment seem to only be in his head since the reports I have shown say that neighbors knew nothing abou a problem and that the boy was a good kid. So, from what we have read so far it seems like this old waste was just a nutcase with a big problem with paranoia. how does this make people on here jump to statements blaming the parents for non-existant behavior or calling this kid names and trying to say he should not have provoked it. Talk about blaming the victim. People that engage in this should not only be ashamed of themselves but should look at their own lives and try and decide what would make them want to condone it in any way. Saying"it was wrong, but..." is condoning and trying to justify. If anyone has to add a "but" to that sentence then they need help. Maybe some people on here have the same problems this old guy did and feel that all teens are rotten and get what they deserve.
I completely disagree. Unless information comes forward that the kid did a whole lot more than cut across this guys lawn I do not see where this kid is "rotten" or a "punk" or any such thing. In the confession this guy made all he sighted was the kid walked on his lawn. These years of harrassment seem to only be in his head since the reports I have shown say that neighbors knew nothing abou a problem and that the boy was a good kid. So, from what we have read so far it seems like this old waste was just a nutcase with a big problem with paranoia. how does this make people on here jump to statements blaming the parents for non-existant behavior or calling this kid names and trying to say he should not have provoked it. Talk about blaming the victim. People that engage in this should not only be ashamed of themselves but should look at their own lives and try and decide what would make them want to condone it in any way. Saying"it was wrong, but..." is condoning and trying to justify. If anyone has to add a "but" to that sentence then they need help. Maybe some people on here have the same problems this old guy did and feel that all teens are rotten and get what they deserve.
offthepaper
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Either way you cut it, a sad story.
But if a little more restraint was shown by either side, both would be home tonight. This wasn't a case of self/property defense from the info in the report. It sounds to me as the man felt more fed up than threatened. The kid was likely doing what he was doing because he felt he could.
Two mindsets collide.....tragedy follows.
Now a 15yo is dead.
The old man is likely going to jail for life(?).
Everyone is sad/outraged.
And the lawn will have a new owner.
This confrontation ends with no winners, all losers, with lives on both sides of the families suddenly in shreds.
I guess the morale of the story is you got to decide what's worth defending with deadly force.
But if a little more restraint was shown by either side, both would be home tonight. This wasn't a case of self/property defense from the info in the report. It sounds to me as the man felt more fed up than threatened. The kid was likely doing what he was doing because he felt he could.
Two mindsets collide.....tragedy follows.
Now a 15yo is dead.
The old man is likely going to jail for life(?).
Everyone is sad/outraged.
And the lawn will have a new owner.
This confrontation ends with no winners, all losers, with lives on both sides of the families suddenly in shreds.
I guess the morale of the story is you got to decide what's worth defending with deadly force.
Aguila Blanca
Member
My late grandfather used to keep 50-pound bags of rock salt in the garage (for melting ice, of course), but today I wouldn't have a clue where to buy it. And my local Dick's Sporting Goods is always out of stock on double-ought rock salt shells.
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