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Steel case wolf in a CZ?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by bikerdoc, Oct 17, 2020.

  1. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    Serious question!
    I'm 72 and NEVER used steel case in my beloved CZ's.
    Some widow from the VFW dropped it off at my house after her husband died. Oldest son took all the guns and ammo but told her to dump the steel case. I got 200 ( 4 boxes) rounds of Wolf from her. Do I dare use it?
     
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  2. cslinger

    cslinger Member

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    It will be fine. It MIGHT not be super reliable but more then likely it will be. I won’t hurt anything.
     
  3. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

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    It's not going to make your guns explode or anything. I have a CZ-clone Jericho 45 that only gets steel ammo because of the cost differential between that and brass, and it runs absolutely fine. The worst I can say is that the fumes from the powder and primer smell like cat pee.
     
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  4. Dan-O

    Dan-O Member

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    It does stink, and it is durty.

    I wouldn’t shoot it in a 3k 1911.
     
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  5. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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    Yes. Either that or you are absolutely welcome to ship to me. I'll even pay for shipping! I use it when shooting local steel challenge matches in my CZ. Works great, as long your hammer spring isn't too weak. Some folks say they have hard primers, but I've never had an issue. The only thing that is going to wear faster is the chamber (and maybe extractor). The price differential is huge (before panic prices), and you will quickly be able to pay for a new barrel and extractor if you make a lifestyle of steel case ammo. It isn't hard to fit barrels, you can look that up on youtube and learn sufficiently. Probably will take you an hour for your first one if you ever need to. 200 rounds isn't going to make it wear noticeably faster.

    Actually, if you make it a lifestyle, the whole gun will wear faster because you will be able to shoot it more. :D

    I'm shooting a CZ-85 converted to SAO with Cajun and CZ custom parts (and otherwise modified), so if you are shooting something more expensive, you might want to check the price of your barrels for your Czechmate or something. I just don't know what you have, I just know that CZ-75 barrels that I use are not expensive.
     
  6. buddyd157

    buddyd157 Member

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    i don't know what CZ you have or it's caliber.

    but i have a CZ 75 B, and it did not like the wolf ammo i had.

    YMMV

    however, my Glock ate it and asked for more
     
  7. Meeks36

    Meeks36 Member

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    Heard its hard on ejectors. Just what I heard. I run it in my glock and my ruger PCC. Smelly with decent accuracy. Could sell it for a decent price.
     
  8. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Eh, I've used Wolf in Berettas, CZs and SIGs with no problems ... not for a while, but I'd scored a case of the stuff in 9mm a few years back for about $4.99 a box, so I shot it all up. No damage to guns, shot just fine.

    Any evidence of the steel-cased stuff (Wolf, Tula) being hard on ejectors is anecdotal at best. Sometimes the discussions get heated, but I'm pretty sure the steel used in the cases isn't all that hard. If you're gonna break ejectors or extractors on steel-cased stuff, it'll surely break the same way with brass-cased ammo.

    Old thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/steel-case-ammo-and-wear.810270/

    Here was mildly interesting "research", but ultimately not much information:
    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

    As an aside, pretty sure the Czechs ran metric butt-tons of steel-cased ammo through CZs over the years back in the Iron Curtain days ...

    Chief complaint about the stuff used to be the lacquer used to seal the primers gummed up guns, but the companies don't use the lacquer, haven't for years now.
     
  9. Terry G

    Terry G Member

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    I've used steel cased 9/18 MM in my CZ 82's without any problems or appreciable wear. I've shot steel cased 9X19 MM occasionally in a CZ 52 and a P-09. I don't make a habit of it, but that's just a personal preference. No one I know of complains of any problems. It does stink.
     
  10. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

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    And even say it is harder on the ejectors, how much damage is 200 rounds going to do?
     
  11. lsudave

    lsudave Member

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    Steel cased wolf will be just fine.

    In a panic-free world, I shoot Sellier & Bellot 124gr through my CZ 75, Geco 124gr through my Sig P226, and Fiocchi 124gr through my Beretta 92FS. That way, the ammo and the guns came from the same country and speak the same language, and everything is hunky-dory. I don't like to shoot no gross old Rooskie steel through anything, it's crude and uncouth... ;).

    Actually, for range usage a lot of those choices we made in the past are about as silly as what I typed (and by the way, I DID like to match up the countries when I could, just because). During this panic, I've shot what I have and could find, in several calibers. By and large, if it fits in the magazine, it will do just fine for plinking. Some things are hotter than others, some are more consistent in load. At this point, if you're just going bang at the range, anything you get is a good thing.
     
  12. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks guys!!!!

    I'll use it.
    Until now I only used S & B 124 yr. Must have 2k rounds in the Cabinet - ( learned in 94 to stack it high and deep!)
    So I'll let the grand kids blast away with it, but like always they got to clean it, and clearly it good! :evil:
     
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  13. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    As noted above that small number of rounds won't hurt anything, but also as noted above steel is harder on parts also made of steel such as the extractor claw and the ejector where the two parts slam into each other. The point is that maybe it depends on which CZ and also WHEN it was made. I have several CZ's manufactured before and during the commie years, and while I'm no metallurgist, it's my impression when detail stripping these guns is that the steel used was not terribly high quality steel, ie maybe it's not as "hard". Something to consider when using steelcase in old guns made to use brass ammo.
     
  14. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    My bad!
    Just realized.
    I failed to tell Ya'all it will be going through a 75B and a 75 D compact.:mad:
     
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  15. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    4 boxes isn't going to make you or break you. I would dump it
     
  16. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    That's actually funny, thanks, Dave. And you shoot Magtech through your Taurus guns and Armscor through your RIA 1911s, right?
    I dunno, TM, kinda tough finding 9mm for sale these days, much less ... free?
     
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  17. Mosin77

    Mosin77 Member

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    Funny how people’s noses are different. One guy says the steel case Wolf smells like cat pee. I actually think it smells good, like firecrackers. I purchased a ton of .45acp Wolf about 10 years ago and pull out a box on special occasions just cause I like the smell!
     
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  18. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    None of MY cats' pee ever smelled. Of course, they were all neutered. :cool:
     
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  19. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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  20. lsudave

    lsudave Member

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    Back on topic, your CZ's should be able to shoot anything just fine.

    CZ 75's do seem to have a weak extractor, I've had to replace them on both of my pre-B's. The tooth sheared off. I don't know if the company has addressed this issue, but modern/current extractors fit on the pre-B just fine. $30 part and you need a punch to drive the pin. I do think someone (Cajun maybe?) was selling "improved" extractors to correct this problem.

    Mine both sheared using brass, not steel. Both are older guns, I suspect a rather high rd count might have been the issue. If you search around online, you also get the message- do NOT chamber a round from the ejection port. This seems to be a culprit, always rack from the magazine.

    Plenty of misinformation regarding steel cased ammo; "hard on guns". No, the cases are not hardened steel, it's soft. Almost certainly softer than nickel-plated. "Corrosive", nope. Not for commercial Russian steel in my experience (Tula, Wolf, Bear, Red Army Standard etc). They ARE Berdan-primed, but this is a physical layout, and not indicative that the primers are corrosive. Old surplus military (of almost any caliber) will likely be corrosive, because those primers are more reliable (as far as I understand it). New manufactured 'anything' for the commercial market, almost certainly not.

    As far as smell, different powders smell different. I do note that Red Army Standard steel-cased .308 has a sweetish smell. Oddest smelling 9mm I've shot has probably been Aguila brass 124gr.

    Regarding ammo in general, and steel ammo particularly... people like to be a bit snobbish about such things. I do, myself, despite being aware of it. I've shot a ton of steel through Makarov and other guns with zero issue, but with 9x19 pistols, we like to pamper them. When known brass was around $9 a box (say, S&B), I didn't want to go "cheap" with steel. Maybe only a buck or 2 savings. Also, I'd avoid the "cheap" brass, stuff like BrassMaxx, which in retrospect was likely just fine too.
    Right now, 200 rds of steel cased 9mm is technically a pretty penny. It's going around 40 cents a rd. If you don't want/trust it, you can probably sell it to someone for even half that and they'd be overjoyed.
     
  21. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    Low, commercial quality steel cases in a High quality steel....Czech gun?
    The Russians, Ukrainian (contract), Romanians reportedly use only the cheapest grades of steel in their ammo.

    You must not have much faith in the quality of Czech guns, many of which are based on guns designed in the Communist 'steel ammo' decades.

    My Czechpoint VZ-58 rifle has just crossed the 1,400-rds. threshold (I keep a piece of each ammo box in a labeled baggy), using Only Russian Tula and Wolf.
    -----Nothing has broken. The Czechs designed their military and police guns For steel-cased ammo...and to be able to Attack some of You guys who served in West Germany. .....let's ponder this a while.

    :scrutiny:>>>>>>>> "Brass Vs. Steel-Cased ammo, An Epic Torture Test", LuckyGunner Labs. Google can Find it !
    They used a pair of AR-15s (used more ammo than Rob Ski, on "AKOU") and published numerous graphic, color-coded charts etc.:cool::)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  22. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    bikerdoc, you're a hoot! :rofl: :thumbup:

    (a mod w/ a sense of humor is a credit to any forum, and apologies for not resisting an off-topic post)
     
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  23. JDR

    JDR Member

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    Strictly MHO, I’d shoot 200 rounds with my Glocks rather than my CZ pistols, the Glocks have already seen plenty of steel case ammo. But the likelihood of doing damage to a CZ with 200 rounds is probably minimal
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  24. Mosin77

    Mosin77 Member

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    If I had a gun that was truly rare or irreplaceable ...like my numbers matching Imperial Luger... the kind of gun where I can be pretty sure the designers never envisioned steel ammo, breaking a numbered extractor would seriously devalue the gun, and fitting a new barrel or relining would also seriously devalue.... then I wouldn’t shoot it much at all, but when I did, I’d darn sure use brass case ammo with a soft gilding metal on the bullet.

    But in any modern gun with parts readily available that’s a quality recreational or duty firearm and not a hard to repair collectible, I’d blaze away with the cheapest steel case ammo that reliably feeds and functions, repair the gun if and when necessary (probably never) and buy more guns with the (substantial over time) ammo savings.
     
  25. jrmiddleton425

    jrmiddleton425 Member

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    I have shot 400-500 rounds of TulAmmo through a pair of CZs (#1 a 75B and #2 a CZ Custom SP-01) 2014-present. They run like the proverbial sewing machine on that cheap Russian junk. If I could buy a shipping container full of it right now, I'd be glad to get it.

    Edit: In addition, I wish to note that since 2014, I have spent so many hours at this keyboard expounding on "Why I Like My CZ Pistols," that some keys, including the arrow keys and the "Z" key are beginning to stick.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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