Stop destroying the national forest!

[coloradokevin]

For those of you who regularly shoot on public lands, I am certain that you'll know exactly where I'm going with this thread.

For any of you among us who believe that shooting areas on our national forest lands are intended to be used as personal landfills, then this thread is designed to be a public service announcement in your honor!




Here are some key points:

1) The National Forests and BLM lands belong to all of us.

2) When one group of users (in this thread's case I'm making a reference to our fellow shooters) decides to trash these lands, the forest managers often close the impacted areas to that type of use.

3) When the same groups of irresponsible users (in our case shooters) move on to other areas, without changing their habits, those areas eventually end up being closed as well.


The solution?

1) Don't shoot trees, signs, or other people's property.

2) Don't endanger other users of the forest by acting in a reckless, illegal, or otherwise irresponsible manner.

3) Clean up your mess, including your brass and shotshell hulls.

3a) If you want good Karma points, clean up some additional mess beyond what you've created. A little effort on everyone's part goes a long way!

4) Be considerate of other forest users, and choose your legal shooting areas wisely.



I hate to be preachy, but I feel that this message needs to be disseminated to as many people in the shooting community as possible.

I am truly disgusted by some of the behavior I've seen in the national forests lately, and I'm very tired of losing the places where I love to shoot. I also know that a number of users on this site have also experienced this problem firsthand!

The reason I posted this thread is because of a trend that seems to be continuing in Colorado's forests every year. In the time I've lived here I can think of a number of places where I used to shoot that are now closed to shooting. This isn't even close to being an exhaustive list of places that have been closed in the past couple of years:

Note: each of the following areas were closed due to irresponsible behavior, and trash related issues.

1) Rampart Range
2) Lyons area
3) Lefthand Canyon
4) Parts of the Pawnee National Grasslands




Thanks for reading, and here's the back story on this thread:

Today I went shooting with one of my coworkers, in a National Forest area that is located about 40 minutes away from my home in Denver (near the Mt. Evans area, for any of you locals). Until today this area had been staying reasonably clean. It seemed that only a few people knew of this spot, and the users of this particular area were doing a decent job of keeping it clean. I have been shooting in this area for 4 years now, and other users I've spoken with have been shooting there for 15+ years.

However, the last time I went to this spot I noticed that a large boulder had been "tagged" with the initials of a Denver-area street gang. This was the only obvious damage that had been done, and I gave it very little additional thought at the time. Unfortunately when I arrived for today's shoot I found that the area had been littered with a ton of worthless junk, which included: two large televisions, a couple of computers, a bunch of large-diameter pieces of PVC pipe, a few propane cans, a beer keg, a bunch of shattered glass, about 1,000 shotshell hulls, and a number of less distinct pieces of electronic trash (all of which had absorbed more than a few hundred bullets).

Having been through this process a few times now, I'm beginning to see the writing on the wall for my newest shooting area. If this trend continues, I expect that this particular area will also be slain by a USFS Closure Order within the next two years.

THIS NEEDS TO STOP! We need to educate the folks who are leaving these messes, and report them to the authorities when they don't comply with the law. We also need to be sure that we are all diligently cleaning up after ourselves following a shooting session.

Obviously these issues often take place when many of us aren't using the ranges, but I'm certain that someone out there knows where this trash is coming from. After all, I've seen weeds naturally growing in the wild, but I've never seen a broken television sprout from the ground!



TAKE CARE OF OUR LAND, LEST WE LOSE ITS USE FOREVER!

 

[Shadow 7D]

There in lies the problem, while trashing a shooting area is littering, and subject to fines, add to it, the fact that most electronic trash is covered under EPA hazardous material disposal law, if caught, these people can be subject to HUGE fines (and responsible for the clean-up)

So don't just drive away, if you find someone littering, please, take pics (discretely) and car tags to let the forest service know, all it takes is for a spot to get the reputation of being policed to get these people to leave. Oh, and the EPA award up to 25% of the fines as a reward for turning in polluters. Thinks of this way, what better way to get your share of the gangs drug money.

 

[psyopspec]

I get your message, and I feel your pain. Unfortuantely, the people who need to hear it likely aren't on this forum. If they are, their disrespect for the shooting sports and our national land is likely not the worst symptom of their lifestyle.

It sucks, but I don't think your message is going to get through to its intended audience as an internet post.

 

[doc2rn]

I just moved to Westminster and have been goin down to Cherry Creek where I bought a membership. I tried one of the public ranges out west of town and couldnt even bring myself to uncase my weapon. I bagged 5 trashbags of glass and porcellin along with brass and computer monitors. Couldnt put it in my mustang I bet it wont get hauled off anytime soon.

 

[Buck Snort]

Well, the only solution is to monitor the use of the shooting spot and hide in the bushes with a video camera and turn the evidence over to the authorities. Its a shame to have to resort to those kinds of sneaky Pete tactics but the truth of the matter is there are few alternatives.

 

[cleardiddion]

UGH!
True that.
I took an entire day off to go shooting. Got together with my buddy and loaded up the car.
Made my usual 35min drive into the mountains out to the Allenspark dump and BAM. Closed.

Hey Kevin, know any other places near Boulder county that's open to shooting still?

 

[Curator]

The State of Florida has made recreational (target) shooting illegal in all State Forests primarily due to the actions of the "Home Appliance Shooting Association."

 

[22-rimfire]

It's illegal at this time to shoot in any National Forest in my state except during hunting season with the appropriate license and "shooting" does not include plinking. It is a rule that I would like to see changed, but I suspect it won't happen simply because of the home appliance, mattress, and tire dumping associations. The meth boys don't help much either.

 

[Gouranga]

They want to end it...they need to start charging for the use. Use the money to pay for a RSO. It is sad but it is the way people are. The buffalo zoo once had a free day in an effort to give back tot he community that supports them and maybe up zoo attendance. The amount of damage to the zoo and animals was ridiculous.

Another thought, get together with a bunch of shooters and work with the forest service in the area to "Adopt" that range. Y'all and video the bad guys and report them and clean up. I would bet the effort would keep the area open. You would be cleaning up the mess, and hopefully reducing the damage. We did something similar in this area with a boat launch that was having major issues. Instead of closing it, it has recently been redone and is much safer/cleaner. Just something to consider.

In an ideal world you would not need to take such actions but to keep it simple "People suck."

 

[heeler]

Strangely enough I checked the status of the Sam Houston National Forest in Texas just last week and target practice there is strictly verbotten.
Damn shame because it was not some years ago.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Well Kevin, what have you done about the problem other than to chastise us for your frustration? Have you considered working together with other local shooters and the local National Forest office and setting up the shooting area and a Adopt-a-Spot program?

Yeah, somebody probably does know who is trashing those shooting areas, that is, those who did it, and those folks aren't likely members here.

 

[hso]

Thanks for bringing this up. Others have posted on the same problem before and it bears repeating if we want to keep our shooting spots available for use.

Take out more than you took in.

 

[dogrunner]

Far larger problem on NFL in Florida is the mis-use of four wheelers.........even tho the FS has tried to regulate & provide trails they STILL tear up sensitive wetlands, trespass on adjacent private lands and Gov't restricted areas.

There is utterly no way that even random and totally uncontrolled target shooting could begin to compare to the chaos I've personally seen. That includes trespass into a Naval bombing range, in excess of a hundred in a mob that stirred up so much dust and sand that it looked like something out of the Sahara.........Even saw a 12 year old girl run into a friends legally parked pickup................Try to hunt with that sort of crap going on!

Bottom line is that if there's no enforcement then any dirtbag, shooter, 4 wheeler or other scofflaw is gonna' do what he wants, how and when he wants.

The only way to stop that crap is to snitch and testify if necessary..........otherwise you'll be the looser!

 

[Lee Roder]

Take out more than you took in.

Amen. I always bring an empty 55 gallon trash bag with me and take it out full of crap. It's not even a dent! And I didn't know about that EPA reward thing. TV's are big out here but except for the plastic, I leave them. I'll be keeping my eye$ open for $ure so I can start shooting violators, with a camera . Maybe I can make this habit self-supporting

Maybe a new past-time, hunting violators?

 

[Corporal K]

Unfortunately gang-bangers and other idiots don't care much about environmental impact and good forest stewardship. I shoot in the Nat Forests, and I'm always fanatical about picking up even the tiniest bits of trash.

I hike and backpack a lot too and I'm always amazed to find plastic water bottles, beer bottles, and other trash miles from the trailheads. Some people just have no respect, but the trashy shooters will cost us all our freedoms.

 

[Gouranga]

I hike and backpack a lot too and I'm always amazed to find plastic water bottles, beer bottles, and other trash miles from the trailheads. Some people just have no respect, but the trashy shooters will cost us all our freedoms.

Yeah I am an avid trout fisher in the mountains, I am taken aback by the piles of crap people leave on the banks and in the streams. Some of these folks are fellow trout fisherman which blows my mind as being in nature is a good part of why I like wading the streams.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

I would just like to add: Electrical appliances are not safe targets. Monitors, Computers, etc etc, like stated before create a huge amount of hazardous waste. Don't do it!
Some of the threads on shooting electronics just make me sick to my stomach.

 

[Tinpig]

Tinpig

 

[Cougfan2]

Littering in the state forests here in Oregon is a huge problem and has resulted in getting shooting areas shut down here as well. Several shooters from the NorthwestFirearms forum decided to do something about it and have been organizing weekend cleanups with the support of the Oregon Dept of Fish and Wildlife. They get a work party together and go to an area that has been littered and clean it up and haul the garbage out. I believe the ODFW even helps them with the disposal to they don't have to pay the dump fees. It has kept several areas open to shooting and even suceeded in getting some areas that were closed opened back up again.

 

[mack]

Excellent post Cougfan2 - that is the primary way to address this problem - because the jerks won't do the right thing - so organize a clean up and work with the authorities - and if you see someone trash out a shooting area - turn them in.

 

[coloradokevin]

Well Kevin, what have you done about the problem other than to chastise us for your frustration? Have you considered working together with other local shooters and the local National Forest office and setting up the shooting area and a Adopt-a-Spot program?

Yeah, somebody probably does know who is trashing those shooting areas, that is, those who did it, and those folks aren't likely members here.

Well, to answer your question, I always take one or more large trash bags worth of other people's crap out of these areas, despite the fact that I only really generate a couple of pieces of paper and some brass trash myself (the brass is reused when I reload). Also, I want you to understand that my intention wasn't in any way meant to chastise the many responsible members of this site who don't trash our forests, but I still believe that it is very important to get the word out on this problem.

As a number of others have already responded, National Forest areas in many parts of the country have already been closed to recreational target shooting, thanks to idiots who destroy these areas (I know it was also that way in Ohio, where I grew up).

I don't want to see Colorado go in the same direction, and if a thread like this stops even a couple of folks from polluting in our mountains, then I'll be quite happy. At the rate we're going out here, we are quickly losing viable places to shoot. I wouldn't be surprised if the USFS put an outright ban in place in the next ten years, unless things begin to change for the better.

And, while I hate to believe it, the possibility remains that some of the people who are doing this stuff might be reading THR. I highly doubt that they are regular posters on this site, but I know there are a lot of folks who lurk on these sites, and I'm not convinced that polluters aren't potentially among them.

As for an "adopt-a-spot" program, that isn't a bad suggestion in theory. Unfortunately I know that there were organizations who were actively cleaning the Rampart Range and Lefthand Canyon areas on a regular basis (often using large roll-off dumpsters), and they still couldn't keep up with the mess and the idiots. Both of those areas were ultimately closed, and I can't blame the forest service for deciding to do so.

I used to remove a ton of trash from the Buffalo Creek area when I'd shoot there, though I didn't have the equipment that was required to remove large appliances. Nevertheless, I posted a similar thread regarding the issues there a couple of years ago, and added some photographs to the thread. One of the replies was from another local who had recently used his pickup truck to remove the appliances from that area. Unfortunately it was repopulated with trash within a week.

Maybe legal enforcement actions are the key, rather than just cleaning up other people's problems? I'm not sure, but I'll continue to remove what I can whenever I go shooting. If other shooters do the same, it certainly might help in the long run. But, hopefully something as simple as this thread will get at least a few other people thinking about the issue. Or, perhaps this thread will get all of us responsible shooters to start spreading the word better about these problems.

 

[Zundfolge]

This is a perfect example of The Tragedy of the Commons.

In the past, fewer people were up in these free, public shooting areas but as firearms ownership has expanded (good) its meant more irresponsible people have guns and need a place to shoot (bad). Also as the urban areas in the west get larger they end up with the same problems the big cities back east have (gangs and other criminals) and those folk are extra hard on the shooting areas.

I've finally broken down and joined a private range and given up on free, public shooting ranges. The only way public ranges will work is if they are no longer free.

 

[ccsniper]

same as where I go shooting when not shooting on my own land, other shooters leave everything from broken glass to old furniture. But luckily we have a volunteer group (Of which I am a volunteer) go out and burn the trash once a month. It takes the better part of a Saturday and a huge freaking fire but the 20 or so of us get it done and make it look pretty good.

 

[jnyork]

two large televisions, a couple of computers, a bunch of large-diameter pieces of PVC pipe, a few propane cans, a beer keg, a bunch of shattered glass, about 1,000 shotshell hulls, and a number of less distinct pieces of electronic trash (all of which had absorbed more than a few hundred bullets).

We have an excellent public range in Yuma AZ, but there is no supervision whatsoever, open to the public 24-7, we have silhouette shoots there twice a week and every time we go out there we haul off a pickup load of krapp like this, only takes a couple of days.

 

[KBintheSLC]

Good post. One of my favorite places to shoot has started to look like a small landfill lately. Old shells of cars, washers, fridges, TV's, computers, etc... Though I haven't brought any of that stuff myself, I have to admit that I am not entirely immune to any fault. I generally pack out what I bring in (including shotgun hulls), but a lot of small debris that is left over after destroying targets gets left behind. I need to get my buddy to bring his dump truck and bobcat one day so we can clean it up a bit.