Stop destroying the national forest!

[Shadow 7D]

Like I stated before, working with the forest service and helping to self police and them policing the ranges to keep the worst of the the stuff out is ultimately the best answer, it doesn't stop illegal dumping, but hopefully it will slow it down, the new yesterday here showed one dump spot, it was on local land in the middle of a state forest area, It was bad, looked like a city landfill, a lot of trash, and this guy is stuck cleaning it up, I think the state will help, but it still sucks.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

"Special Use" Permit

Near where I live, we have a "combined use" range (used for .gov, .mil, and civilian practice & training) that is the subject of a "special use" permit.

It's on Federal Land (Coeur d'Alene National Forest), but it's managed by a local club (FRGC = Fernan Rod & Gun Club).

We have gated access, and we do a cleanup project at least once a year, involving a couple dozen members, weed whackers, and a small bulldozer.

Over time, we have erected a couple of buildings, got running water and power, and have a covered, concrete floored firing line with tables.

We still get more trash than you might think a private club should generate, but the "special use" permit and gated access keeps most of the idiots out. At $100 per year, I believe it's worth the cost.

If you want to preserve a wilderness area for shooting, you might look into the special use permit thing. A few dozen members at a reasonable annual membership rate can fund all the maintenance you need. A couple hundred members can achieve some nice improvements.

Of course, there being no free lunch, somebody has to manage the club, the range, and any facilities.

It's real work, but it's also worth it.

 

[mack]

As for punishing the guilty - if you or any of your friends hunt or you can get together or join a group to clean an area - what about using some of those deer cameras or the like - attach a few to trees that would cover the range area and see who is dumping and trashing the place up - give the evidence to the authorities and after a few fines and such maybe the word will get out not to dump and leave trash around there anymore.

 

[HappyHunting]

Without fail, someone offers to pick up my brass for me... But then they keep it.

Kudos to whomever keeps the South Sandy Shooting range clear of debris. Never more than a few destroyed cans every time I go.

They have rules that you can only shoot paper targets. No plastic, glass, or silicone. That said, there are never more than one or two people there and more often than not none at all to enforce the rules.

HH

 

[Loves 2 shoot]

I agree that with all that has been said about not cleaning up after your done shooting or what ever it was that u do in a spot. I have had a verry hard time finding a good spot to shoot and have had to go to wyoming or to indoor shooting ranges and well wyoming isnt a bad place to go shoot it gets to be costly to go every time i want to unload a few rounds. and as for indoor ranges there not bad in the winter but i love being out doors. I know its not that hard to pick up a few shells and to keep our rights to shoot!

 

[MrWesson]

I lived by the apalachicola national forest and the jeep clubs and shooting clubs I belonged to constantly had trash pickup days. Its sad to see some of the littering but 10 jeeps with trailers and 20-30 people we would clean up about 1/4 of the whole forest in a day.

The problem I have is we pay the forestry folks to manage OUR land and they are quick to cut off access permanently due to trash or reckless behavior. It is a sad situation but my experience with them at least in North Florida is they are always looking for a reason to close roads/recreation areas and cut access.

 

[OcelotZ3]

That's because exclusion is easier/cheaper than monitoring.

Remember that there is a large contingent of people out there that feel government "is the problem" and want to cut any/all funds for things such as managing public lands.

 

[M&PVolk]

That's because exclusion is easier/cheaper than monitoring.

Remember that there is a large contingent of people out there that feel government "is the problem" and want to cut any/all funds for things such as managing public lands.

It's not that cut and dry, I'm afraid. Where I live, scores of trails are being closed yearly, soley because there is a small but vocal minority who simply want no use aside from hiking. These people don't want the noise of an engine, let alone the sound of a firearm! The Forest Service is complicit in this as well, because it shrinks the area they need to service, not to mention that the element of radical environmentalism increases with each new crop of fresh college grads signing on to the agency.

I am all for responsible use and I make every attempt to leave no trace. That said, don't fool yourself into believing just picking up some trash will save your area. If you want to keep things open for use, you must join together with other likeminded individuals and become politically involved with these issues. THAT is the only way.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Put up a hidden game camera where vehicles park, check it periodically, and turn the photos of offenders over to the park or district officers. One or two well hidden cameras would be worth their weight in gold, and the PR from a private pro-gunner doing this and aiding in the catching of the culprits would gain loads of support from the public from all factions.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Seems like these situations call for some of the camo'd discrete trailside game cameras. After all, I think it's too much to expect a responsible shooter to be monitering an area all the time, but the camera should be able to pick up a vehicle's make, color, model, and possibly plate number. More than one camera would be necessary, but compared to losing the site, isn't that a small cost to pay?

As a side note, I wonder why the Forest Service doesn't do just that? If I were cynical, I'd think they don't because it would possibly prevent them from closing the land to firearms use. It should be suggested to them in any case.

900F

 

[ArmedBear]

Other areas closed... Black's Creek along the railroad tracks outside Boise, ID, Kitchen Creek east of San Diego, CA, Lytle Creek in the hills east of Los Angeles...

The list goes on and on.

Kevin is right.

Please bring a heavy-duty trash bag and clean up more than you brought. Please, please please. We shouldn't have to do it, but we do have to do it. Know that you're not the only one; some of us do it often, even when we're not shooting.

Let's keep the remaining places open, even if it means cleaning up after some jerk.

 

[Mr.510]

I'm an avid outdoor shooter and hardcore four wheel drive enthusiast. Prior to a severe back injury I was a hiker/climber as well. I subscribe to all the beliefs of http://www.treadlightly.org/ in everything I do in wilderness areas. I always pick up *every* piece of trash I see on every trail I traverse and the vast majority of four wheelers clean up too. Most days that I spend 8-10 hours in a trail system I come out with less than half a plastic grocery bag of trash and 95% of it is what I consider to be 'innocent trash', that being the random pop can forgotten on a fender or the water bottle that bounced out the door on an obstacle and went unnoticed. This stuff is right in the middle of the trail and was obviously not left there on purpose. Half the time the pop cans haven't been squished yet and are still half full of soda.


I travel many routes that intersect with hiking, horse, mountain bike, ATV, and motorcycle trails. The thing that amazes me is that by far the messiest trails with the most garbage strewn about are hiking trails. I don't know if this is because hikers don't want to carry their own garbage out or because their 99% aren't willing to pack the 1%'s trash out on their backs? FWIW: By far the cleanest trails in the NW are motorcycle trails. You have to look very hard to find any trace of use other than tire tracks.


All of us have to clean up after the 1% of users that are irresponsible or we will lose our recreation sites forever. I clean up everywhere I shoot as well, though admittedly I cannot even come close to cleaning up everything idiots leave at shooting spots. I think a row of concrete ecology blocks at the entrance to every popular shooting spot would be in the best interest of all responsible users. Drunken Joe Dipstick isn't likely to carry his old refrigerator or big screen TV 50 yards to shoot at it. If you block the entrances so everything that makes it's way onto the range has to be carried a long distance the garbage dumping problem will be reduced greatly. Yes, people will still carry small stuff in and we'll have to continue cleaning it up.


There are hidden 'game cameras' set up by four wheel drive clubs and other trail users at many trail system entrances. The Forest Service has one set up at the entrance to a large trail complex that I often go to mid-week. The only reason I know it's there is a FS employee was changing the batteries and/or memory card when I rolled through on a Wednesday afternoon.


I think the people that are trashing shooting sites are the same ones that are trashing our trail systems, trespassing on private land and into 'out-of-bounds' areas. Unfortunately there is a significant group of people that really just don't give a crap about anything but themselves. Every single one of us responsible shooters/wheelers/whatever has to clean up after these people every time we use public lands. Not just for our own selfish reasons of keeping our recreation sites open, but because it's the right thing to do.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Does anyone else find it ironic that part of this thread is about not leaving garbage about at shooting spots in the national forest so that we can go about leaving garbarge heavy metals (lead) there in greater quantities.

The solution?

1) Don't shoot trees, signs, or other people's property.

2) Don't endanger other users of the forest by acting in a reckless, illegal, or otherwise irresponsible manner.

3) Clean up your mess, including your brass and shotshell hulls.

3a) If you want good Karma points, clean up some additional mess beyond what you've created. A little effort on everyone's part goes a long way!

4) Be considerate of other forest users, and choose your legal shooting areas wisely.

Notice that the solution doesn't involve retrieving lead? Why isn't lead considered part of the mess?

 

[rfwobbly]

It's not just Colorado... on a N Georgia camping trip with the Boy Scouts, 6 miles into the Cohutta Wilderness area, we were passed by a 2 couples in T-shirts and flip-flops. One of the males was carrying a case of beer in 6-packs on a cardboard flat. It's 80F and dry. They had no cooler. No other food or water with them. And apparently no trash bags or litter collection method.

This was approximately 2 hours into the woods. The trail head was about 500 ft higher in altitude. I'm thinking: 1) that beer is hot by now, and 2) these bozos have no plan to haul all that trash back up that trail.

And yet if stopped or questioned, they'd be the first to start screaming about "their rights" and "it's a free country".

 

[Sky]

Kinda like golf.

Some responsible members rake the sand traps when they come out and fix their divots on the greens and fairways especially when in a group.

Yet others act like there is always someone who will clean up their mess. Think it starts in childhood?

 

[esquare]

If you are going to adopt an area, I would suggest hidden IR cameras as well as very prominent 'fake' surveillance cameras and signs about littering and penalties on the way into the area. The hidden cameras would be fine for after the fact, but you need something very visible to make people rethink their actions before they happen.

 

[rallyhound]

I have a little different opinion than most here based on my experience in one county and 1 state forest in northern Minnesota.

We used to have a public range that was maintained by a local 4h club. It was closed due to noise complaints.

we can target shoot almost anywhere in state forests here.

Where I shoot is a gravel pit inside the Two Inlets state forest. It can get to be a huge mess at certain times. It is about 1-2 acres in size within the 18,000 acre state forest.

I do not care how much garbage and crap gets shot up and left there because it gives people some place to make their mess and they do not target shoot in other areas of the forest .

We must be willing to sacrifice a small part of our public land to save the greater parts, human nature being what it is.

 

[fiat128]

If it's made out of metal I always pick it up and take it with me when I leave. A truckload of scrap will buy quite a bit of ammo.

 

[Jubjub]

A bit off topic, but related. If you have any old electronics that you need to get rid of, Best Buy will take them for recycling. There's a $10 fee for anything with a tube, such as a TV or monitor, but you get a $10 gift card in return. If it's a computer, remove the hard drive before bringing it in.

In the interest of fair disclosure, I work for them. This program is a bit of a pain in the butt for those of us in the stores, but it's doing a lot of good. My store ships out six to ten pallets of recycling a week. Multiply that times a thousand stores, and that's a lot of hazardous waste that isn't going into landfills or ditches.