storing a beretta 92 with slide locked open harmful to the gun?

[Walt Sherrill]

The O.P. states that Mom "will not shoot the beretta. she will not store it with a round in the chamber.(grand kids) she flicks the safety on when racking the slide. its a mess." I am presenting them with a proven technique that eliminates his concerns about the strength and endurance of compression of the recoil spring and having the gun in a safer mode by having slide down on empty chamber when the Grandkids are around...

Proven technique for SOME people, but not everyone.

My wife has tried a variety of methods, including the one you're described, with almost zero positive results. She has problems with all of them. I think it's more fear of being pinched or hurt by the slide than a strength issue, but it is what it is.

My wife has found that she CAN rack the slide of our PMR-30 (if necessary), and it's kept locked in a small gun safe (as is another gun elsewhere in the house in a second small gun safe), both readily accessible. About the only time she'll be concerned is when I'm out of town, which doesn't happen often. While the PMR-30 isn't the best home defense weapon, it's proven reliable, she's reasonably accurate with it, and the noise alone (we keep electronic muffs near the gun) may scare away an intruder! And 30-round mags do give her a chance to try again if she misses. (The fireball from that gun may scare away an intruder!! )

The Beretta 92 seems to be a semi-auto that is LESS of a problem for most people with limited hand strength -- and getting a lighter recoil spring might also be an option (that nobody has mentioned.) The standard recoil spring for the 92 is 13 lbs., and Wolff offers 9, 10,11, and 12 pound springs, too, and that could make the slide something that can be more easily managed! The 92 isn't being shot a lot, so damage, perhaps to the mechanism (if that's even an issue), isn't likely. The OP could certainly try several lighter recoil spring weights.

I wonder if a small, easily-opened gun safe -- screwed down inside a cabinet or closet, or attached to the floor -- might be a better solution? Then the gun can be kept loaded with safety on... (or not). Press the keypad in the proper order and it pops open, and you can pull out a gun, ready to go, no slide issues, safety on or off I have two of those, in addition to a large gun safe, and both of these small ones -- well made and sturdy -- were purchased on sale for around $70, shipped. These safes keep kids out, and bolted down in the right place would be hard to smash open, if a burglar is rummaging through the house.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm glad we are good BSA1

 

[Riomouse911]

I will add to those who do not think this is a good idea.
I fully appreciate and understand the desire to give Mom a tool that she may need in a dire straight. I, too travelled this path to no avail with my Mom.
But giving that tool to a person who not only refuses to learn to use it, but has expressed a desire not to want it, is just asking for more trouble than it may ever solve.
I wish you all the best and hope a solution comes up that solves all the issues.

 

[PapaG]

My 92 was the easiest centerfire autoloader to rack I have ever owned. Wife agrees. Get her a Beretta .380 with tip up barrel.

 

[Klint Beastwood]

The question asked by the first post in this discussion was "storing a beretta 92 with slide locked open harmful to the gun?"

The answer I offered was "MAYBE."

Despite your claim, not all springs will lose their efficiency when repeatedly compressed (or stretched) and released. It depends on HOW FAR they're compressed or stretched! Believe it or not, springs DO decline, if when compressed or stretched, the springs reach a point that meets or exceeds their design limits (which is called the springs' elastic limit.) If left in that compressed or stretched state, the damage -- which is micro-fractures in the steel's structure -- can cascade (accelerate). The same holds true of most materials -- wood, metal, plastic, glass, even rubber.

Does a Beretta 92 recoil spring, when locked back, reach that failure point? I don't know -- which is why I recommended having a spare recoil spring on hand -- and checking the gun's function from time to time (out back, if possible, or at a nearby range.) One participant (either here or on The Firing Line, a similar forum) claimed to have seen a number of such failures at his National Guard unit when the unit's M9s were stored (by the NCOIC of the armory) for an extended period with the slides locked back. That's not evidence -- it's anecdotal -- but it seemed a legitimate story.

We've discussed this topic here and on other forums, with some participants offering technical references and links to various professional sites where scientific details are available. We've even had a Metallurgist or two involved in the discussions, along with engineers who work with various metals in the aerospace industry. They all seem to agree: If a spring isn't pushed to it's limits it can continue to function (compressing or stretching and returning to a relaxed state) almost indefinitely, but if pushed or pulled too far, a spring can die quickly. That's why VALVE springs in cars almost never fail (often cycling for many, many millions of times over the engine's lifetime -- as used, they aren't pushed to or near their elastic limit), but the small recoil springs in a Rohrbaugh R9 has a recommended service life of about 250 shorts fired. (I'm sure they'll work for more than 250 rounds, but RELIABILITY is the key for a small, self-defense weapon, and why risk failure?) Those springs were clearly made small to allow for a smaller gun; the metal in those springs must do more with less materials, and they simply don't last as long.

That's why some hi-cap mag springs don't last as long as 7-round 1911 mag springs, which can be left fully loaded for 50-60 years without problems, and why Wolff Springs, in their FAQ area, recommends downloading hi-cap mags a round or two for long-term storage. (Not all hi-cap mag springs require downloading, but some might -- and Wolff suggests that practice for all hi-caps, erring on the side of longer spring life.)

If cycling alone wears out a spring, why does a R9 recoil spring die so quickly, while valve springs seem to last almost for ever?

Maybe not all recoil springs will degrade if the slide is locked to the rear, but some might.

Dont worry bud. I know your right in what you are saying. It's just a general consensus made popular recently without going into elastic, plastic deflection, spring relaxation and yield strength and what effects in plastically, and how fast and slow spring creep can take place and all the factors why. People only know what they know.

 

[HexHead]

You don't wear out the springs in your car from being parked in your driveway.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

You don't wear out the springs in your car from being parked in your driveway.

The springs are only partially compressed when it's parked in the driveway... Lots of reserve left -- kind of like valve springs.

Those springs are designed and installed so that it takes a LOT of force or weight to fully compress them (get them near the "elastic limit") and that almost never happens in cars.

 

[ny32182]

Even if the spring loses a little bit from being compressed all the time, it isn't really going to matter.
Competition shooters often instantly replace the recoil spring with one that is MUCH lighter than stock. A factory spring would break before it would get to the point where it is not going to operate gun properly.

Examples:
S&W M&P: 17lb stock, I believe. I ran 13lb recoil springs, and shot 15,000 rounds between changes.
Tanfoglio Stock 2; very similar to CZ: Again around 17lb stock I think; I run 11lb recoil springs and have shot at least 15,000 rounds between changes.

Every gun is a little different, but all of them are way oversprung stock from what they need to be.

Magazine springs, in my experience are a crap shoot. I wore out a set of Glock springs at around 8k rounds total rotating 3 magazines... replaced with Wolff +10%, never had another issue in the time I was shooting that gun. When I was shooting the M&P, years ago I got one batch of magazine springs that needed to be changed with roughly only 1000 rounds on each spring. The batch I got after that lasted much longer.

I have a set of 6 Tanfo mags that has north of 50k rounds between them; so somewhere over 8k through each magazine, and the springs literally feel brand new. The followers are worn to where they won't lock the slide open anymore, and the lips are probably worn, but they still feed like a champ.

You have to keep an eye on your stuff to make sure it is working, regardless.

 

[FAS1]

I wonder if a small, easily-opened gun safe -- screwed down inside a cabinet or closet, or attached to the floor -- might be a better solution? Then the gun can be kept loaded with safety on... (or not). Press the keypad in the proper order and it pops open, and you can pull out a gun, ready to go, no slide issues, safety on or off I have two of those, in addition to a large gun safe, and both of these small ones -- well made and sturdy -- were purchased on sale for around $70, shipped. These safes keep kids out, and bolted down in the right place would be hard to smash open, if a burglar is rummaging through the house.

I would agree with Walt on this method. I keep my chambered Glock 17 as my home defense gun in a quick access safe that is bolted down. Mine presents the holstered gun to you in the exact same place and orientation every time with zero chance of grabbing the trigger inadvertently. In addition, since it is a mechanical push-button lock, all or part of the code can be entered when going to sleep making for even quicker access than having to enter the complete code.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

S&W M&P: 17lb stock, I believe. I ran 13lb recoil springs, and shot 15,000 rounds between changes.
Tanfoglio Stock 2; very similar to CZ: Again around 17lb stock I think; I run 11lb recoil springs and have shot at least 15,000 rounds between changes.

Every gun is a little different, but all of them are way oversprung stock from what they need to be.

I'll agree that every gun is different, but not all are way oversprung. The Rohrbaugh R9 I mentioned earlier is certainly NOT overspring; that is also true with many of the sub-compact guns, which have recoil spring lives much shorter than full-size guns. Less metal is used in the mag and recoil spring to fit them in smaller spaces. Those smaller spring must do the same (or similar work) and do it with less metal. Some springs in those guns, are renewable resources.

I don't doubt you got that 15K rounds out of your recoil spring. Compressions alone aren't the issue. The topic here was whether LEAVING the spring compressed would do damage. IF, when compressed (and kept that way), the spring is at it's design limit, damage WILL result. It the spring is NOT near it's elastic (design) limit, there will be less damage, or no meaningful change in function. For most guns, cycling the spring normally will cause some wear/damage, but as you say, it's unlikely to be an issue for a long, long time. But, LEAVING IT COMPRESSED near, at, or beyond it's design (elastic) limit for long periods is like running the gun for many, many, many cycles -- and wear will accelerate. But depending on the spring or how it's used, it may still take a long time to become apparent or affect gun function.

A 13lb. recoil spring and a 17lb. recoil spring may have the same or different elastic limits -- the "weight" of the spring matters to you, but how far the spring is compressed (or stretched) is what matters to the spring.