Straight Pull Bolt?

[LHRGunslinger]

Why has this bolt action design fallen out of favor? I was looking at a video of the Desert Tactical Arms SRS & all I could think of was how the design would be GREATLY improved if they had used a straight pull bolt instead of the normal bolt action.

 

[Skribs]

I've wondered the same thing. 2 motions is quicker than 4, especially if you don't have to change your axis from roll to Z.

 

[jnoble87]

Simpler, stronger, more economic.....That's my guess..

 

[nbkky71]

I had always heard that a straight pull rifle had weaker extraction than a turn bolt rifle and they eventually fell out of favor, even though they are quicker to operate.

There aren't many around today, but Blaser and Mauser made some modern straight pull rifles.

 

[Slamfire]

Simpler, stronger, more economic.....That's my guess..

Right on the money.

You can look at the Desert Tactical Arms SRS layout and see they needed a short compact bolt. You are not going to get there with a straight pull action.

 

[benEzra]

A straight pull adds as much complexity as a pump-action and almost as much as a rotating-bolt semiauto, but without the rate-of-fire advantages of either.

If you think about it, a pump action is basically a straight-pull bolt-action with the bolt connected to the forend.

 

[tyeo098]

Imaging something like a straight-pull bolt-action AR, but with a side mounted (a la SKS) charging handle, but in a rifle configuration...

Did I just describe the K31?

 

[Caliper_Mi]

A straight pull adds as much complexity as a pump-action and almost as much as a rotating-bolt semiauto, but without the rate-of-fire advantages of either.

If you think about it, a pump action is basically a straight-pull bolt-action with the bolt connected to the forend.

Depends on which pump. Pumps with a tubular mag have more complexity for the magazine feed. However I agree that a pump should be the fastest manual action due to the ergonomics.

The K31 is basically a rotating bolt semi auto without the gas system. Strength of a rotating bolt straight pull would be the same as a bolt action.


I think the real question is why did the straight pull bolt never gain much popularity? Maybe America just preferred lever guns up until semi-auto took hold?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I think the real question is why did the straight pull bolt never gain much popularity?

The best known straight pull bolt rifle in America was the Canadian Ross. Some versions could be reassembled with the bolt in the closed position, and would fire that way -- sending the bolt back into the shooter's face. There is one in the NRA museum that has a note on it telling what happened with that particular rifle.

That tended to sour Americans on straight pulls. There were a couple of straight pull rifles used in WWI, including the Ross, and none of them faired well in the nasty, muddy conditions in the trenches.

Next, straight pulls aren't as quick as they are cracked up to be -- most of them require you break your cheek weld while working the bolt, which slows down reaquisition of the sights.

Finally, you have to look at the turnbolts of that era -- the superb Springfield and Mauser, the Lee, and later the Winchester Model 70. There were no straight pulls that could compete with them.

 

[jnoble87]

The best known straight pull bolt rifle in America was the Canadian Ross

Yeah, and that killed a lot of Canadians too. When it got dirty, it was nearly impossible to work it.

 

[Vaarok]

Point of fact, the Ross sporting rifles eclipsed pretty much everything pre-WW1 in terms of quality/reputation for building rifles for competition and sporters, and were literally almost-unavailable due to such high demand and regard at the time. As far as the actual killing users, that happened eight times according to record, and if I remember the report right, three were due to cracked bolt lugs letting go or the like. Quality control during wartime was mediocre at best, rifle AND ammunition. But dirt tolerance was simply not there, and that's the main reason it was pulled.

Then, a flood of cheap WW1 turnbolts after the war, plus the notoriety/bankruptcy/LC modifications of the Ross kept them from carrying on as sporting manufacturers afterwards. The Steyr 95 action was still used in Europe pretty regularly, and the Russians were using Rosses for Olympic competition rifles into the late fifties to very, very good result.

The big thing with straightpulls is that they're expensive to produce and lack good primary extraction due to the camming mechanisms.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

So you see how straight pulls got a lot of bad press in America.

The Canadians, to this day, blame the British -- it was bad British ammunition that caused all the problems. But they don't explain how the SMLE digested that same "bad" ammo without a hiccup.

 

[Acera]

I have a Browning Acera (if you were wondering how I got my handle) in .300 Winchester Magnum. It's topped with Zeiss glass, aftermarket muzzle break, and Kick Ez pad.

The gun is fast to operate, and I have never had issues with the high power cartridge. If you check around you can still find them here on Gunbroker from time to time. They were more popular in Europe. I like the sleek lines, quick re-load time and the detachable magazine. It's definitely something most have not seen, and has been the topic of conversation at many hunting camps.

 

[wlewisiii]

Blaser makes an excellent if spendy one - R8. I wish I could afford one.

http://www.blaser-usa.com/r8/

 

[jnoble87]

The trigger assembly also houses the magazine?! I don't know if I like that idea....

 

[LHRGunslinger]

Well thank you guys for your responses. I figured I'd ask. I'm gonna try my hand at making a straight pull bullpup hunting rifle anyway.

 

[prid93]

The the trigger assembly also houses the magazine?! I don't know if I like that idea....

Me neither...not at all tbh

 

[Slamfire]

Point of fact, the Ross sporting rifles eclipsed pretty much everything pre-WW1 in terms of quality/reputation for building rifles for competition and sporters, and were literally almost-unavailable due to such high demand and regard at the time. As far as the actual killing users, that happened eight times according to record, and if I remember the report right, three were due to cracked bolt lugs letting go or the like. Quality control during wartime was mediocre at best, rifle AND ammunition. But dirt tolerance was simply not there, and that's the main reason it was pulled.

There were a number of Ross rifle variations. The solid lugged versions did not have a reputation for blowing bolts.

However the interrupted lugged versions did. It was possible to assemble the bolt such that only one row of interrupted lugs were engaged in the receiver. This was dangerous.

You can read in Captain Herbert McBride's books about solid lug Ross rifles jamming in combat. Canadian soldiers were tossing their rifles and picking up Enfields.

At the time there were comments in the press about the Ross bolt unlocking during firing, never read anything conclusive.

I recall reading an American Rifleman dope bag article either late 30's or early 40's , which a discussion of the Ross rifle and bolts blowing back. The article showed a picture of a guy in shooting position with the bolt in line with his jaw.

The NRA magazine showed a Ross Sporter rifle with tag on it. The tag read something to the effect the rifle was a gift from Sir Ross and that the bolt had blown out of the rifle going through the jaw of a Canadian hunting guide.

Because these incidents occurred pre internet and beyond living memory it is easy to make claims about how safe these Ross rifles were, but at the time they were in wide use, enough problems occurred that the Ross was considered by the shooting community to be unsafe.

Maybe it was unfair, but I sure I would not want to be fatality number nine.

 

[shep854]

If I turned off the gas system of my M1A, would that make it in effect a straight-pull bolt action?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There were a number of Ross rifle variations. The solid lugged versions did not have a reputation for blowing bolts.

However the interrupted lugged versions did. It was possible to assemble the bolt such that only one row of interrupted lugs were engaged in the receiver. This was dangerous.

My Ross is a Model 1905. I can telescope the bolt closed (it will actually do that by itself, under spring tension, if you just nudge it a bit) and re-insert it in the rifle. In that configuration, there is no engagement between lugs and receiver -- and it will fire in that configuration.

 

[benEzra]

Imaging something like a straight-pull bolt-action AR, but with a side mounted (a la SKS) charging handle, but in a rifle configuration...

Straight-pull AR's (no gas system) appear to be fairly popular in the UK since the semiauto ban was passed.

http://www.targetsportsmagazine.com/features/view/10326/rifle-review-back-to-black/