Strange situation at church tonight. Irresponsible gun owner.

[KevinB]

A good friend of mine witnessed some irresponsible actions by a member of our church this evening. I wanted to see what everyone's opinion on the situation and to find out what you would have done had you been there.

My church was having its annual talent show and bake sale tonight. I didn't go, but a friend of mine was there and called to tell me about this after it was over. This guy in his 20's, dresses in all black, dyes his hair black, has black flames tattoed up his arms, and paints his fingernails black, was in attendence this evening. It was about to be his turn to go up on stage to perform, and he goes and sits next to his brother directly in front of my friend. She says she noticed him passing something behind thier backs, so she leaned forward to see what they were doing. Apparently this guy was packing and decided that drawing his CCW, and passing it behind his back to his brother was safer than leaving it in the holster before going up on stage. I assumed he didn't have a holster when she first told me this, but she said that he had a OWB of some sort. I guess his rentention really sucks. Well, he goes up to do his perfomance (which I'm sure was intellectually stimulating ) and his brother stands up and proceeds to headbang, all the while leaving this gun unattended on the church pew. So then things begin to get worse. A little girl wanders over and begins playing around right in front of this thing. Looking like she is about to sit directly on top of this outstanding citizens sidearm, my friend quickly leaned in to intervene and stopped the girl. This got the mothers attention and when she saw the gun she sat in between it and her daughter. After his performance goth boy comes down off the stage and holsters back up without a clue who may of had access to his gun while he was away. My freind said it was a small black gun of some sort, small enough to be a .22, but she doesn't know for sure.


-Kevin

 

[marklbucla]

If I had been right there, I would probably have discreetly taken the gun and concealed it myself and have a good talk with the person afterwards. I wouldn't want to call attention to it in front of everyone, but an unattended gun is a big nono, especially around children and liberals.

 

[Lupinus]

Do we know he even had a CCW and wasn't just some little punk carrying a gun to look cool? If he is, it is the responsible thing to do to give him a piece of your mind. Don't be rude or provoking. But you should make a comment about how unsafe it is to leave a gun laying around anywhere, esspecialy in a public place, esspecialy where little children might pick it up and accidently blow their or someone else's head off. He say's "Chill man" you say "No, but when some kid eventually picks up your gun and blows their head off they will be chilling in the mourge. Think on that next time before you leave your gun laying around."

And then walk away. Don't stand and argue. Don't have a provolking tone. But idiot's like that need to be told when they do something wrong. Also, if oyu have his name I'd give the police a call and say he has been seen carrying and based on his handling of his weapon you arn't sure he has a CCW, discribe it, and ask the police to pay him a visit and find out if he has the proper permit's.

Sheesh. I havn't even taken a course. Im not 21 yet and as far as I know the 21 rule is federal. But I mean jeez, I can see not knowing rule's by heart, but common sense. Please. Just good old common sense will take care of 99.9% of safty issues IMO.

 

[MikeIsaj]

That gun would have been in my pocket and out the door. It would have been in the parking lot waiting with me for the police. Goth boy could come out and claim it from them.

This is clearly maximum irresponsible behavior that should not be ignored.

Did he have a CCW permit?

Did his brother have a CCW permit?

Do either of them have half a brain?

What church do you belong to? It sounds pretty cool. In my church up here in blissninny land, there would have been a stampede in the panic caused by the sight of a gun. Parents had nervous breakdowns when I proposed an Eddie The Eagle program in the school. Fortunately the principal, a nun, did not panic and welcomed he program enthusiastically.

 

[Lupinus]

Well mike, you are in jersey, so that somehow does no surprise me.

Pretty liberal land in them part's. Naturaly, the Eddie Eagle, which is a great program IMO, get's hard resistence. We live in a socity where we prefer to sanitize rather then educate. Rather then teaching our kid's that sticking a piece of metal in an outlet is dangerous. We simply cover it with plastic and dont give any more thought. We don't teach that the pretty colored chemicles under the sink are dangerous, we put a type of lock on it. We don't teach that pill bottle's are a no no, we jsut put child proofing on it that moth kid's can figure out and many arthritise patient's have to kil lthemselves to open. And we prefer to eradicate gun's rather then properly teach. Our socitity has an ass backward's view of how to teach a child and lazy parent's that dont want to teach their children.

 

[Skofnung]

I would have screamed OH MY GOD! GUNNNNN!!!! and ran around in circles biting my fingers.

 

[Lupinus]

LOL!

I can't see any members here doing that.

But ican DEFINATLY see some liberal doing it. And funny it would be lol

Then later it would hit as terribly sad.

 

[KevinB]

No, I don't know if he has a permit or not. Honestly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he was a felon. I strongly suspect that he is a drug user as well.

My church is a non-traditional, non-denomination kinda place. Very laid back atmospere.

-Kevin

 

[Derby FALs]

Why in the world would it matter if he had a CCW? He has just as much God given right to defend himself as you do. The issue is one of gun safety. I would have covered the gun and sat right beside it until they got back and let them know I felt it was very unsafe to leave it attended. Remember also that honey will catch you more flies than vinegar. Sounds like they are young and inexperienced and you have an opportunity to set them on the right path.

 

[Skofnung]

I strongly suspect that he is a drug user as well.

A gun toting church going goth looking drug user... hmmmmmmm...

Come to think of it, thats not so strange. Sounds sorta like a few members of the clique I ran with back in HS.

 

[MAURICE]

The guy made a big mistake leaving the gun unattended.
Lets not judge him by his taste in fashion, though. I have (at the moment) and shaved head. I am tatooed, I wear combat boots or 5.11 ATACs, and I like to wear my black hoody when it is cold outside. Sometimes I guess I look like a punk. My friends call me an oversized skin head. However, I obey the law. Heck, I work for the AR D.O.C.
Lets not be too quick to judge a book by...well, you know.

Maurice
(I do dress up nicely, though. Just not often )

 

[bigun15]

I would have taken out the mag, cleared the chamber if loaded (figuring if he's gone this far he shouldn't have ammo), and stand up and scream "EXCUSE ME, YOU FORGOT YOUR GUN ON THE PEW. I TOOK THE AMMO SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE IT.YOUR WELCOME."

 

[chris in va]

Lets not judge him by his taste in fashion, though. I have (at the moment) and shaved head. I am tatooed, I wear combat boots or 5.11 ATACs, and I like to wear my black hoody when it is cold outside.

Yeah, but do you attend church looking like that?

 

[Thin Black Line]

I'd have to agree with Mike.

In the military, if you leave a weapon unattended or the buddy you left
it with leaves it unattended, we tend to snatch them.

Also, in many states it is illegal to take a firearm into a place of worship,
CCW or not.

 

[GlenJ]

That gun would have been in my pocket and out the door. It would have been in the parking lot waiting with me for the police. Goth boy could come out and claim it from them.

I would have done the same. Had that gun went off it would made national news and all gun owners and church goers would look bad. What I find funny is how these anything goes churches look at denominational churches as the wierd ones.

 

[Blue Line]

Never leave a weapon unattended

 

[MikeIsaj]

Well mike, you are in jersey,

Get a map. Find the city of brotherly love (Rhymes with Filthydelphia) and the Peoples Republic of New Jersey. You will end up in Bucks County. Founded by William Penn, and under heavy Quaker influence still. Even so, still more wolf country than sheep country. Definately not New Jersey!

And regarding another thread, "Illinois Nazi's" is from the Blues Brothers. I'm guessing your well under thirty?

 

[johnmcl]

Creat or Fix?

Hi guyz,

It seems like the choice before your friend was to either fix a situation or create one. Fixing one would be to either quietly secure the weapon and then have a quiet talk with the owner afterwards. Based on what you'd discover in that talk other options are open.

The other is to creat a situation. Drawing attention to this guy's mistake, getting LE into the picture, being confrontational would all make the situation worse in my mind.

Is the objective to ensure this guy doesn't make the same mistake again? If so, the choice is clear to me...

John

 

[Geno]

Clear choice to be made

Unattended gun + unattended child = death. I would take the gun and call the police.

I don't care what he looks like. My simple concern is, he drew a gun in church. He passed it to a "non-owner", or did he? He left in unattended. The other issues (CCW, ownership, etc.) are of concern to the police. My single concern would be to remove the potential danger.

Doc2005

 

[thatguy]

Well, it seems to me that one should keep one's weapon concealed and under control at all times.

If one feels that one shouldn't be armed at any point during the event then perhaps one should leave the gun in the car for the duration.

To those saying that they would take the gun and call the cops, I say it's a bad idea to A: take someone's property and B: touch another man's gun. Unless you know for an absolute fact that a crime has been committed why would you call the cops?

The guy sounds pretty weird looking. This is America, we're supposed to have the right to be weird if we want. Can't always judge a book by it's cover. I think what he was doing was unwise, not criminal.

 

[rageofangels]

the substance of judgmentalism

Poor judgment was used on this individual's part. Of course, the story reported is not witnessed on a first handed account. The story stinks from the get go of "my friend said..." because that is how most rumours, urban legends, lies, or just plain fish stories begin. I am not calling you or your friend's specific character into question, but stating a simple fact of how stories are often exaggerated, retold and embellished. As far as the criticism for this individual attending a church service, where would you rather have this person attend? Church is for those who do not have their lives together and this includes those who dress for attention.

As far as this young man’s judgment call for either leaving his gun with someone who may not be qualified (remember, he did not sit the gun on the pew, his brother did)

chris in va - Yeah, but do you attend church looking like that? QUOTE]

Church has come a long way. And for the better. See prior commentary above.

marklbucla has the best advice out of the lot. To take the time of explaining what was done wrong, what can be done to fix things and end it on a note of what could have happened is much more appropriate and respectful (how we should act inside and outside of church) to the person. Most people are easily coerced into your arguments when they are positively persuaded. I am glad the police were not called. We do not need the bad media exposure as mentioned, both for church-goers and for firearm owners.

Remember, everything we’re hearing is third-hand information, at best. The exception, of course, being KevinB. But his information is second-hand at best.

Peace be with you!

 

[Lupinus]

Sorry Mike had to read your location agian lol

 

[MikeIsaj]

Thatguy,

I say it's a bad idea to A: take someone's property and B: touch another man's gun. Unless you know for an absolute fact that a crime has been committed why would you call the cops?

If your property is presenting an inherent public danger, and I have the skill and ability to abate that danger, your gun is going to be in my pocket. I know for a fact that you have committed a crime when you have deliberately and knowingly, laid a gun in a pew outside of your direct and constant supervision, where children are present. It is called "endangerment" and is a reckless act I'm sure even in your community. I will most certainly call the cops to further justify my action as a public service rather than theft of a firearm.

Someone else wrote "fix a problem or cause a problem." How can I fix the problem when according to you, the problem doesn't exist until I cause it. this is blissninny nonsense. Let's not hold anyone accountable because they may raise their voice. Me talking to this idiot would not be a calmer resolution than calling the cops.

Something to consider before sitting on your hands and doing nothing. In Pa. you have an obligation to safeguard a minor. Let the child get the gun and hurt someone because you didn't want to be involved and you could find yourself being charged.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Unless you know for an absolute fact that a crime has been committed why would you call the cops?

In most states, leaving a child unfettered access to a loaded gun is a crime.

I would have pocketed the thing and walked quietly away. Let goth-boy have a little panic attack when he can't find it.

Adrenaline can be a great teacher.

 

[Sistema1927]

My vote for the "understatement of the year" award:

My church is a non-traditional, non-denomination kinda place. Very laid back atmospere.