Strange thing at Starbucks

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Scotthsi
All this from the guy who complained about Khar putting A safety and loaded chamber indicator on their guns. Don't safetys make them safer?
Yea I read your thread.
 
Guns in holsters that cover the trigger guard are not subject to muzzle control rules. Otherwise you would never be able to wear a holstered gun on the second floor of a building or bend over with a holster without first checking to see if anyone was behind you.

The same with cased guns. If they're properly ensconced in a case that makes it impossible to fire the gun then the muzzle control rules do not apply.
 
Yes that is the way certian types of shoulder holsters are made. The LEO did not have a special holster that held his weapon in an awkward manner. What is the point of this thread?
 
When it comes to handguns, many folk take leave of their capacity to reason.

For example, while introducing a hunter friend of mine to handgun shooting, he was seriously worried that I was wearing a loaded & holstered gun.
I explained what many here have pointed out, and he was still concerned.
 
All of this, over a horizontal shoulder holster... but I'll bet not more than a handful of people ever wonder how many guns are pointed at the top of their heads in the average multi-story office building. Or who's head their own gun may be pointed at when they're on one of the upper floors of the same kind of building. ( Does anyone know for sure what the bullet stopping properties of the typical building's floor/ceiling are? )

As has already been mentioned, we all walk around, every day, with all sorts of potentially life-ending threats just waiting to descend on us... but we're usually too busy or too distracted to even notice, much less think about 'em. It figures one that really isn't much of a threat at all would be the one to garner the most attention.

Anyway... I fully agree that a holstered gun is nothing to be concerned about. Or even one that's being re-holstered.

The ones that are being or have been UN-holstered are the ones that get my attention. ;)


J.C.
 
So, steverjo, are you upset because of his holstered, covered-trigger weapon, or because this officer is (gasp!) surrounded by and talking to young ladies?

John
 
If the guy wasn't taking the gun out of the holster I fail to see the problem. Guns don't just "go off" by themselves. We don't duck out of the way when passing a parking lot for fear of a car slipping out of gear and running us over, despite the fact that cars can do just that, way more often than guns spontaneously firing.
 
Sounds like you are too paranoid for your own good Stevo. It is a holstered weapon. Don't try and touch it and it won't bite you.
 
If he was using his armpit to hold up the weapon, I'd probably have an issue with it; since it's properly secured in a holster, it's not an issue IMO.

ND's as a result of re-holstering are irrelevant to this issue or the OP's concern. The cause of an NG while re-holstering is the person doing the re-holstering, not the weapon or the holster.

This is much ado about nothing.
 
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Yes, you're too paranoid Steverjo. NEVER EVER has sloppy use of a holster or a bad holster design caused a gun to be accidentally fired. That story where the trained Federal Flight Deck Officer (pilot) inadvertently put a hole through the side of his airplane when holstering NEVER happened. Apparently, people NEVER mess up when holstering and can't seem to understand that if that happens, when standing, it's a lot more likely a gun fired horizontally can potentially cause much more grief than one fired directly into the ground and/or the idiot user.

Guess DHJenkins has never heard of a BAD holster design, either. See above paragraph. :rolleyes:
 
. Apparently, people NEVER mess up when holstering and can't seem to understand that if that happens, when standing, it's a lot more likely a gun fired horizontally can potentially cause much more grief than one fired directly into the ground and/or the idiot user.
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You just admitted what we're all saying, that it has nothing to do with the holster, but the guy holding the gun.

The holster didn't make the gun go off, the guy holding the gun did.

If some moron is standing in a crowd taking a handgun in and out of a shoulder holster he needs to be locked up for being an idiot. That doesn't make it the holsters fault.

Where do you guys run into these people that are taking guns in and out of holsters all day in public places?

That's not what the OP saw. The OP saw a gun in a shoulder holster that was NOT being touched by the carrier. Explain why that is a danger please.
 
TexasRifleman said:
If some moron is standing in a crowd taking a handgun in and out of a shoulder holster he needs to be locked up for being an idiot. That doesn't make it the holsters fault.
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What about a cop re-holstering in a hurry to help another cop subdue a suspect on the ground? Sure, that's never happened... Like the time a cop accidentally got a toggle from his jacket in the trigger guard (Glock for the record) and fired it when he pushed it into the holster...yup, NEVER happened.

Yes, of course it was "operator error", but the fact is it STILL happened. Think he went to jail or was "locked up"? Nope... Quit assuming it always has to be some bumblef^ck playing with his gun/holster.
 
What does that have to do with the OP? The OP was about seeing someone carrying a pistol in a horizontal shoulder rig, and how SEEING THE PISTOL CARRIED IN THIS WAY made the poster uncomfortable.

The universal response to that has been to point out that a loaded-yet-holstered-and-retained sidearm is of virtually no danger to anyone, and it only becomes a danger when it's removed from the holster.

Like the time a cop accidentally got a toggle from his jacket in the trigger guard (Glock for the record) and fired it when he pushed it into the holster...yup, NEVER happened.
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There is no doubt that accidents have happened, and will continue to happen. But that gets us right back to the whole 'how many times does it happen?' discussion that you punted on, some forty posts back.

You seem to be fixated upon a possible-but-remote occurence that has precious little to do with the thread, and are clearly willing to hijack somebody else's thread to make that point over and over again.

That's not what the OP saw. The OP saw a gun in a shoulder holster that was NOT being touched by the carrier. Explain why that is a danger please.
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The question was asked. Are you going to answer it, or continue to harp on issues that have nothing to do with the OP?
 
What about a cop re-holstering in a hurry to help another cop subdue a suspect on the ground? Sure, that's never happened... Like the time a cop accidentally got a toggle from his jacket in the trigger guard (Glock for the record) and fired it when he pushed it into the holster...yup, NEVER happened.

Yes, of course it was "operator error", but the fact is it STILL happened. Think he went to jail or was "locked up"? Nope... Quit assuming it always has to be some bumblef^ck playing with his gun/holster.
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Again, ANY time a gun is in use there is potential for danger. I'm not sure why everyone continues to blame a holster type for gun mishandling. ANY time a gun is being handled there is potential for a mishap, with ANY type of holster.

Shoulder holsters don't make that worse or better.

And then of course there is reality. Shoulder holsters don't tend to be used by police officers who regularly draw and reholster their weapons. They have been in use for many decades and the dangers presented in this thread don't seem to have occurred. No stories of this happening, no real life experiences of anyone seeing this happening, nothing like that.

But let's not put any reality in here, let's keep going with the "what if" worst case scenarios. If you take the "what if" worst case to an extreme you will have to argue that no one should carry a gun, ever. Or own a car. Or leave their house. Or breathe.

But we're veering from the thread by arguing for or against shoulder holsters. They have plenty of problems, no doubt.

Bottom line, though, is that the OP was scared by a gun that was not being touched, and I asked why that was a danger. No one has answered that yet.
 
Scotthsi, please do yourself a favor(and the rest of us) and re-read this thread from begining to end. While doing so, try to remove yourself as a participant. Imagine your posts were from somebody else. I know it sounds difficult to do but keep an open mind and give it a try. You will lose nothing and possibly gain something.
 
Yes, you're too paranoid Steverjo. NEVER EVER has sloppy use of a holster or a bad holster design caused a gun to be accidentally fired. That story where the trained Federal Flight Deck Officer (pilot) inadvertently put a hole through the side of his airplane when holstering NEVER happened. Apparently, people NEVER mess up when holstering and can't seem to understand that if that happens, when standing, it's a lot more likely a gun fired horizontally can potentially cause much more grief than one fired directly into the ground and/or the idiot user.

Guess DHJenkins has never heard of a BAD holster design, either. See above paragraph.
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You prove my point right there - "sloppy use of a holster". Gun's don't use holsters, people do - sometimes sloppily; That's neither the fault of the weapon or the holster.

A bad design may be a bad design, but that's no excuse for the operator to shove his weapon into the holster without making sure any straps/obstructions are clear of the trigger; after all, it's their holster, they should know it's strong & weak points and train accordingly. If it has a flaw that would allow the trigger to be depressed while re-holstering, they should either fix it or discard it. Why? because it's their holster.

You seem to be missing a vital point of this discussion. No one is saying negligent discharges don't happen. What we're saying is that the 99% of the time, ND's are entirely the fault of the operator.
 
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Then those instances are not NEGLIGENT discharges... Sorry, this still needs explaining. And, NG?

DHJenkins said:
What we're saying is that the 99% of the time, NG's are entirely the fault of the operator.
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You are correct, in those rare cases, those would be accidental discharges, as the fault was not human in nature.

I mean ND - I don't know where NG came from...
 
Then those instances are not NEGLIGENT discharges... Sorry, this still needs explaining.
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If you live in constant fear of a mechanical failure causing your gun to go off then perhaps guns just aren't your thing.

This is literally a one in a million type of failure. Documented cases of what you describe are extremely rare. Happening while a firearm is being carried concealed? I've never seen a single report of that.

So what is your point? Are you suggesting that guns shouldn't be carried in public since there is a ~.001 percent chance of the gun firing on it's own due to mechanical failure?

Are you suggesting that all carry methods should take that .001 percent chance into account? Maybe we should all wear steel bullet traps on our belts?

Or what exactly is your point here?
 
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