Striker fire carriers.

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There was quite a bit of discussion about this video in the past. Despite assurances from the site that posted it, it still looks fake to me from the various reactions, but I'll accept that it is real.

Still, watch him holster the gun. Clearly there is something not quite right as he backs the gun out and reholsters. That should have red flagged the whole thing, it would have for me.

The again when I appendix carried (no longer as I can more co comfortably carry a larger gun at 2 oclock) I always used a single clip and always holstered off the body, then clipped on. No chance for this situation with that method.
 
JR24 said:
There was quite a bit of discussion about this video in the past. Despite assurances from the site that posted it, it still looks fake to me from the various reactions, but I'll accept that it is real.

Still, watch him holster the gun. Clearly there is something not quite right as he backs the gun out and reholsters. That should have red flagged the whole thing, it would have for me.

The again when I appendix carried (no longer as I can more co comfortably carry a larger gun at 2 oclock) I always used a single clip and always holstered off the body, then clipped on. No chance for this situation with that method.
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Kind of what I was getting at with my first post. It appears that the guy loads the mag, racks the slide, pops the mag, holsters the gun, tops off mag and then reinserts the mag into the holstered gun. That's a whole lot of extra administrative handling in a not horribly prudent manner. If you're going to top off, fine, load the mag into the gun, rack slide, drop mag, and insert a fully loaded mag BEFORE holstering. Top off mag that you ejected, place in your spare mag receptacle and go about your business. This just looked like poor handling all around. It's unfortunate that this fellow had to learn a lesson the hard way, but it is what it is.
 
GunnyUSMC: said:
A good holster is a must when carrying a handgun. But there are a lot of people that just don’t want to spend the money.
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This proves that good common sense is anything but common. Everybody makes a Glock 19(x) holster which is a major reason I carry each.
 
looking at it I have to wonder if it was the clip that flexed inward to pull the trigger when he bent over.
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There's hard plastic behind the clip. There's no way the clip could get to the trigger unless the holster broke.

I've tried to find more information past the article that initially published the video but there don't seem to be any follow-ups. According to the article, the gun was a G43, the holster was a GCode Incog and the shooting took place in Nevada. That's about the extent of what we know, other than what can be seen in the video.

My best guess is that he got a fold of his under shirt in the trigger guard when he holstered and when he bent over there was just enough extra tension to pull the trigger.
 
As long as the gun is in a holster that covers the trigger I have no issue with a Glock or similar striker fired pistol with no safety. On the other hand there are some manufacturers that offer striker fired guns with a safety and I like the option of having one. There are times when I want to have a round chambered, and not have the gun in a holster. That said, my go-to pistols are all Glocks. I just think having a safety on them would make them better.

I'm quite fond of my Ruger SR-9 Compact and LC-9S. They are about the same size as the G26 and G43, but both have a 1911 style safety. S&W offers their M&P line of striker fired pistols with, and without a safety as well. The military version of the Sig320 has a safety and I'm hoping to see that option on the civilian version soon. If they do I'll buy one.

I never cared for the "backwards" safety that came on most DA/SA pistols. But the 1911 style safety isn't considered a handicap on a 1911. I don't see where it would be a handicap on a striker fired gun that typically comes with almost exactly the same trigger pull weight.
 
tarosean said:
Had to google what it was.
looking at it I have to wonder if it was the clip that flexed inward to pull the trigger when he bent over..




View attachment 809940
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I own a G-Code Incog and can positively say that the only way that a gun is going off while in it is if it is not properly holstered or if there is something that the gun takes with it into the holster. Looking at the fella in the video, it does appear that he is wearing sweatpants or something of the like that has a draw string on the waist. If that's the case, it's possible that the drawstring went in the holster with the gun.
 
I'm not a "no safety" apologist. I totally understand the desire to have a manual safety. I'm ok with them on guns that require them to be carried safely like a 1911. I pretty much hate them on guns like the M9 but understand the requitement.

That said, if a gun has a safety, I prefer it to be a large one. I had more issues with my tiny fns safety getting bumped on/off than I ever had with any 1911. The nice thing about the 1911 style safety is that you can reach down and easily feel if it is engaged. Those little tab safeties are tougher to tell as such.

I do generally travel with an EC9S. Not only is it easy to pack in my over night bag and both reliable and cost effective, but I like that it does have the safety for safer storage in my console should I want to keep it there as a back up.

Even still, Glock style triggers of factory weight are fairly difficult to actuate without mishandling. My one and (hopefully) only ND was with a Glock. I pulled the trigger. Plain and simple. It was an issue where I did not realize I had loaded a magazine and put a stupid hole in my man cave wall. Left the spackle unpainted to remind myself how damn lucky I was despite being an idiot and breaking the rules. Not the Glock triggers fault.

When I first started carrying a striker fire gun, I would actually try to get it to "fire" (unloaded of course) by holstering it weird ways. Short of stuffing the tail of my shirt completely through the trigger guard and JAMMING it into the holster, I could not get that trigger to trip. I couldn't even get it go off putting my finger through the guard and dropping the weight of the gun at odd angles to simulate having the pistol in a fighting grip and losing control. The balance of the gun just wouldn't put enough force back on the trigger unless my palm was wrapped around the grip for leverage. I dont like leaving the guns out with the triggers uncovered as they are still lighter than a DA revolver or DA hammer fired gun. However, with even modest care they seem plenty safe...well as safe as an item designed to be deadly can be.

Keep in mind, I'm only talking about factory weights of 5.5-6.5lbs here. I dont tempt fate with 3.5 triggers on fighting guns, and since I dont race I have no use for a striker fired gun with that light of a pull.
 
Fiv3r said:
When I first started carrying a striker fire gun, I would actually try to get it to "fire" (unloaded of course) by holstering it weird ways. Short of stuffing the tail of my shirt completely through the trigger guard and JAMMING it into the holster, I could not get that trigger to trip. I couldn't even get it go off putting my finger through the guard and dropping the weight of the gun at odd angles to simulate having the pistol in a fighting grip and losing control. The balance of the gun just wouldn't put enough force back on the trigger unless my palm was wrapped around the grip for leverage. I dont like leaving the guns out with the triggers uncovered as they are still lighter than a DA revolver or DA hammer fired gun. However, with even modest care they seem plenty safe...well as safe as an item designed to be deadly can be.
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I agree. I've also tried to trip the trigger while unloaded by placing keys or pens in trigger guard and putting in my pocket. Can't get it to fire. Maybe I just find the heavier pull of revolvers and hammered semis more comforting. I'll probably just keep caring my sp101 as it is more comfortable and keep the Glock as HD safe duty if I don't trade.
 
I have no clue what ND and AD are?

XDS 3.3" .45 - I appendix carry in a fitted Alienwear holster. I like the extra grip safety and like the settable retention force of the Alienwear holster.
Kahr CM9 - I appendix carry in a generic appendix holster. It has a long smooth trigger pull, I have never worried about shooting myself.
DiamondBack DB9 - I usually pocket carry in a pocket holster. Very heavy trigger, I have never worried about shooting myself.
LCP - I usually pocket carry in a pocket holster. Heavy trigger, I have never worried about shooting myself.
P32 - I usually pocket carry in a pocket holster. Heavy trigger, I have never worried about shooting myself.
CZ75D compact - I don't carry often but when I do I carry it decocked.

I love 1911's but both of mine have 2lb - 2.5lb competition triggers... THESE are where I would worry about shooting myself! I don't carry a 1911 and have stayed away from a mini 1911's as carry pieces because of my familiarity with my very lite competition triggers. My eye syncs with my trigger finger when the target is lined up and I decide whether or not to fire... I don't consciously decide to pull the trigger on my 1911's. All my carry guns take a conscious trigger pull decision because of their heavy triggers. I am not saying 1911's and mini 1911's are not good carry guns... they just are not good carry guns for me!

For the past 25 years I have handled my carry gun an average of 2 times a day. Once to take it out of the safe in the morning and once to put it back into the safe in the evening. I do not unholster the weapon in either instance. I always fire off the loaded clip in my carry guns when I go to the range to ensure functionality and keep the ammo fresh.

I do not practice SPEED drills... rushing the gun out of it's holster. A deliberate controlled draw is what I strive for... not "as fast as I can".
 
JohnKSa said:
There's hard plastic behind the clip. There's no way the clip could get to the trigger unless the holster broke.
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As I said initially I had to look up the holster manufacture.. There are varying degrees of quality on the market, some of which are made of very pliable plastics. I saw the clip over the trigger guard and that raised a red flag for me as that would be a fulcrum point.

All we can do is armchair quarterback this thing.. no real answers are likely to be found unless the injured person happens to be a member. Though I doubt they would come forward, or even know, since the gun and holster were quickly thrown to the floor. Course it would queue us in on any trigger mods done to the pistol. A very real issue with Glocks.
 
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As I said initially I had to look up the holster manufacture.. There are varying degrees of quality on the market, some of which are made of very pliable plastics. I saw the clip over the trigger guard and that raised a red flag for me as that would be a fulcrum point.
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It's hard to say one way or the other with 100% certainty. The part I have trouble with is that if the belt loop is attached to a belt and gets folded back hard enough to flex the holster shell sufficiently to get the loop into the triggerguard, I would think that the insertion force when holstering would be very high. The trigger guard has to get past that barrier before the loop could ever get to the trigger and it is wider than the trigger. Also, the belt would tend to reinforce the loop, making it hard to flex it inward. Could it happen? I guess so. Is it likely to happen with a person who has any sense of self-preservation? I seriously doubt it. The force required to muscle the triggerguard past the barrier would be tremendous and anyone with a brain would be highly unlikely to follow through to completion when encountering that much resistance.
I have no clue what ND and AD are?
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An 'ND' is a negligent discharge. This is a case where the discharge is the result of a failure of the person handling the gun to follow the basic rules of firearm safety.

An 'AD' is an accidental discharge. Although the word 'accidental' is, in general usage, a more encompassing term than 'negligent' and would normally be considered to include 'negligent' occurrences, in firearm circles, it is often used as being more specific--almost the opposite of what normal/general usage would be. It is typically used to mean that the person handling the gun was not at fault and that the discharge was the result of an unexpected/unforeseen mechanical failure of some sort.

Things being what they are, the difference between ND and AD has been debated endlessly, and typically with rancor. As a result, I generally use the term 'unintentional discharge' to avoid triggering those who feel strongly on the topic.
 
Blue Brick said:
Unless the firing pin has the ability to be 100% locked, I don't trust a striker fired pistol. I have one and carry it in condition 3.
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I have striker guns from S&W, Kahr, HK, Glock and have never had any issue with any of them where I felt to carry that way. I wish my P7s weren't so heavy at times, but they are safe, scary accurate, and I love the design concept.
 
Godsgunman said:
I agree. I've also tried to trip the trigger while unloaded by placing keys or pens in trigger guard and putting in my pocket. Can't get it to fire. Maybe I just find the heavier pull of revolvers and hammered semis more comforting. I'll probably just keep caring my sp101 as it is more comfortable and keep the Glock as HD safe duty if I don't trade.
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Oh I totally get that. I don't carry a striker fired gun most days. While i have my P320 on me today, it's usually just an HD gun unless I am planning on going somewhere that has a higher probability of being more dangerous. I prefer a revolver for day to day. Maybe an LCP II, but it's a hammer fired gun that behaves more like a striker. I totally see where one can get a bit of the willies when they are used to a revolver type pull. Then again, I'm very much a live and let live kind of guy. Some folks appendix carry a Glock with a 3.5# trigger in a $7 Uncle Mike's holster. Some folks carry Condition 3. I think carrying whatever you are comfortable with safely is better than nothing.
 
I prefer revolvers for appendix carry. I've recently started carrying a Kahr AIWB, which is striker fired but has a longer trigger pull that somewhat mimics a DA revolver. I'm still on the fence about it, whenever I carried a revolver I didn't give it a second thought, but I'm always aware of that Kahr pointing between my legs.
 
JohnKSa said:
. Is it likely to happen with a person who has any sense of self-preservation? I seriously doubt it. The force required to muscle the triggerguard past the barrier would be tremendous and anyone with a brain would be highly unlikely to follow through to completion when encountering that much resistance.
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You really do a double take when you pick something up off the floor?
 
I was talking about the initial holstering process.

"...I would think that the insertion force when holstering would be very high. ... The force required to muscle the triggerguard past the barrier would be tremendous and anyone with a brain would be highly unlikely to follow through to completion when encountering that much resistance."

Once the gun is in the holster, the top of the loop is well past the trigger and I can't see any reasonable way for the loop to fire the gun. Here's an unreasonable way it could activate the trigger at that point. First, to start with, the holster would have to be badly deformed or broken to allow the loop to get in front trigger in the first place. I guess that could happen but a person would have to be pretty unconcerned about their own safety to keep using a holster that is in that bad shape. Then the loop would have to be folded back down onto itself and pushed into the triggerguard in front of the trigger. That would have to happen WITHOUT firing the gun. That would all have to happen during the holstering process but AFTER the triggerguard went past the loop in the holstering process. Otherwise we're back to the problem of taking a lot of force to get the gun holstered. Then, once all that happened, bending over might conceivably add enough pressure to fire the gun.

I'm not saying its totally impossible, but it seems extremely improbable to me. I think the most likely explanation is that some material from his undershirt got in the triggerguard during the holstering process.
 
Godsgunman said:
Good morning or afternoon depending on where you're from! Question for all you striker fired carriers out there. I currently carry either a sp101 or Glock 27 appendix style. Probably 8 out of 10 times I pick the sp due to the DA trigger. I like the Glock and the capacity and even how it fits my hand, I know weird right :neener:. Anyways maybe I read to much about the idiots who shoot themselves in the leg with a striker fired gun. I know more often than not these are ND instead of AD, most likely due to the booger hook.

I know it's all about trigger and trigger guard safety and keeping it clear from any obstruction. I've even tried to purposefully trip the trigger with keys and other things in my pocket, gun unloaded of course. Haven't had an AD trying that so that does help put me at ease. How safe do you feel while carrying your striker? Does it ever cross your mind?
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I been carrying a Glock 22 and a Glock 17 since 1997 on my job. I havent had any worries about carrying them. My Glock 22 saved my life back in 2012. just keep your finger out of the trigger guard and it's all good. People make a big deal out of Glock not having a manual safety but it's not rocket science. Just keep things out of the trigger and you're good to go.
 
Glocks I only carry owb on my hip in secure holsters that lock and/or have thumb straps, with full trigger coverage.
 
I personally do not care what another guy carries. I have had and still own Light striker fired pistols. But, I do not care to carry them any longer. IMO, just too much room for a ND. I have moved on to double action and found out I even like shooting them better. And I was even surprised that I can shoot them as well as a striker fired or better with the right gun. My LC9S was down to 4bs of pull and little resistance with it came to the end of the pull. Same with SR9C, I have no problem with shooting them at the range. Besides I like to carry apex without a holster.
Light striker fired guns are now in my past history. Give me a nice smooth, deliberate pull double action. Just like the way they feel. And the safety aspect is a bonus.
 
JohnKSa said:
I think the most likely explanation is that some material from his undershirt got in the triggerguard during the holstering process.
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Fair enough... why didn't it go off at that time? It was only under compression that it went bang... generally shirts drape when bent over not go taught.
 
What I suspect is that when he bent over, his body forced the gun slightly deeper into the holster, pulling the trigger.

Unfortunately, in the video, you can see that his first response was to pull the gun (and maybe the holster) out and throw them away from himself. That probably eliminated any evidence of what exactly happened so we'll probably never know for sure what happened.

The takeaway lessons are:

1. Be careful when holstering, especially when cover garments or undershirts are involved. If you feel any unusual resistance, STOP, withdraw the gun carefully and examine everything carefully before continuing.
2. Be mindful of the condition of your equipment, especially your holster. If it starts to show significant wear and especially if it starts to show damage or begins to lose its shape, it's time for a new holster.
 
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