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Studied a few street fights

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by KriegHund, Jan 23, 2006.

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  1. KriegHund

    KriegHund Member

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    I just finished watching a video of a bunch of random street fights.

    I was not impressed, to say the least.

    99% of the 'fighting' was one person grabbing the head and/or collar with the left handing and wildly swinging poorly composed strikes to the head.
    Occasioanly a person would attempt to slip the other over, and they both would fall, flail a bit, then either get back up or continue the above.

    This leads me to believe-
    If a person is going to fight you, he will likely go for the head. Keep your guard high, and if they rush, keep some weight off of your right foot so that you can quickly deliver a quick to the groin. If that doesnt work/the situation doesnt warrant it-
    Options

    1) Quick strikes to the gut/kidneys, keep yourself away from the attacker. Do not let him entangle you. Hitting the face with your fist will only get you a broken knuckle. Deliver fast, sharp strikes to the throat, or open handed strikes to the neck/nose/eyes.
    2) Another strategy may be to block their initial strike and go immediatly for the groin or knees. Deliver a secondary kick to the face if they jacknife in pain/go onto the knees.
    3) Duck, strike to the gut then immediatly do an open palm type strike to the jaw, driving upwards. Keep your other hand up in guard.
    4) Keep blocking. Wear them out, and never even need to strike.
    5) Counter-strike. Block, lash out with strike.

    I think the important thing is to end it quickly, and do not let them 'engage' you. Aim for vital areas rather than flailing wildly. If they have you grabbed, use your feet and hands in cojunction to take them down (press with hands, pull with legs). If they are down, stomp a vital area.

    I know its not nearly as easy to do as to say when the blood and adrenaline are pumping, but thats why the stategies above and pretty simple. Its important to keep yourself as calm as possible- this will give you an advantage, especially over an inexperienced angry person. Dont be afraid to use kicks. It makes life easier for everyone...


    OK, now a disclaimer.
    Ive never been in a major street fight (two minor nothings and lots of sparring, a little grapling, and lots of takedowns, and tons of fights with my brother when we were younger) so i'de really like anyone with experience to add their comments. I hope my observation and thoughts were helpful.
     
  2. MrTuffPaws

    MrTuffPaws Member

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    I have watched a lot of street fights on the inet and have seen a few in person. Simply put, I have never seen someone that new how to fight other than fail about.

    I think once you learn to fight, you learn to avoid them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2006
  3. KriegHund

    KriegHund Member

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    Good point.
     
  4. bojangles

    bojangles Member

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    Strike first, strike as hard as you can. I heard George Foreman say whenasked about his fight plan one time. He said"I'm going out and hit him,,and them keep hitting him until hopeful he falls"!

    People see to much crap on T.V. 40 min fights etc. I have never personnel landed a good solid first punch and the guy just stand there and start swinging back. Your best weapon IMHO is balance. The other guys! Keep him from getting any! A handful of hair does wonders, to pull and jerk a guy around and keep him off balance. Durning my years as a bouncer, one of the most effective tools was to grab a guys hair, bend him straight over, while keeping my body turned sideways. Of coarse we had numbers, and others would then take a 4 or 5 poiint hold and remove the guy.

    Then came the of the guy with the topa who broke my nose like a puzzle. But that is a whole other post:)
     
  5. strambo

    strambo Member

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    People who "fight" like this are usually delivering big loopy punches from too far out.
    That's the best, just step in and deliver a palm strike (chin jab) while covering with your other hand. Step in deep, strike full force, ignore his flailing punch. Then continue striking available targets until he is no longer a threat and/or you can leave.

    Very bad. There is usually a term for someone just trying to block while the other guy is trying to take his head off..."victim." First, it takes time, time for him to; a. get a weapon, or b. friends to show up (with weapons.) Second, blocking barehanded isn't necessarily that effective, not against full force hooking punches. As an aside, blocking martial arts "reverse punches" or any straight line strike is easy, you just deflect it a little, I'm talking about full power hooks and crosses. In boxing you have big gloves to block with and the other guy has big gloves too. UFC is good to see this point in action, they have tiny gloves. Often one fighter will launch a flurry taking the other guy off guard and he will be KO'd right through his blocks even though his hands are up and "blocking." Just because the other guy is a tool and launching big loopy punches...it only takes one bare knuckle on the jaw to slip in and put you out. TAKE HIM OUT FIRST!!!!
     
  6. Kodiaz

    Kodiaz member

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    I was in a bunch when I was younger(pre 18). Some people know what they were doing some didn't. Most people try hitting you in the face. Someone who knows some boxing will go for your belly(noone ever knocked over a tree by cutting the braches up top). A lot of times there is a size disparity a big guy (bully)gives a little guy trouble and the little guy doesn't back down.

    Most fights start with a yelling phase (the BS phase the loud yellers are bullies they don't want to fight they want you to be intimidated). (I can't yell I hate when people start yelling).

    After the yelling phase either someone backs down or the pushing starts. Now I haven't been in a fistfight/ street fight since I was 17 (I'm 31 now the smile on my face seems to give away how I feel about hand to hand combat so whoever starts trouble with me apologizes or walks away now that I live in Fl I haven't even had it get to that point)

    Anyway after a bunch of yelling the aggressor(the bully) will usually start a pushing match this can go on for some time. And either someone will back down or the festivities will begin.

    Ok we'll suppose you are minding your own business and some bastard decides he's going to give you a hard time and we get past the yelling phase and now he pushes you the first time.

    step 1 push back (never ever take crap from anyone)

    step 2 when he goes to push you again throw a punch on his way in (uppercut to the chin or straight shot at the nose)

    step 3 (I know judo) for practical purposes we'll suppose you don't know judo
    after that first punch got to the body you will take a lot out of most people going to the body they will lose their power and their stamina. Me I would commence grappling. My old school was a tournament school and I learned how to take the tournament judo to the street very effectively.

    This only works if you are defending yourself I never started any trouble so I don't know how to work an Offense.

    If you can get their shirt over their head and keep their head down that is great you have no power in your punches when your bent over hockey style. Asides from you can't see what you are trying to hit.

    Most people I've met that could fight don't look for trouble.


    Oh by the way I've gotten my ass kicked a whole lot of times. If you KNOW how to fight you KNOW what that statement means.

    If you don't know how to fight this is what it means, "Anyone who sits there and says they've gotten into all these fights and how they can kick all this ass are usually full of it. One question is all it takes to find out if they are for real or not. And that is have you ever lost a fight. Anyone who says they never lost a fight has a tie record 0 wins 0 losses so they have never been in a fight at all." Me talking to my friend Kimani at trade school one night about the multiple asswhippings we got when we were kids when some clown started talking about how he never lost a fight.

    Kimani boxer me grappler/Judo.

    I've met lots of people that could fight and you always talk about your losses usually more than your wins.

    Oh what I said to do as far as punching is for someone with no martial arts skill. If you are comfortable in your martial arts do that instead. I forgot about hitting the throat.

    Oh and after the fight I would walk to the nearest library so I was never arrested when I was a kid either. This library was right across from the police station. Not once did a cop walk in the library and look for a short fat kid that had just gotten in a fight :)

    So since fighting as an adult is a no no more or less and you want to bail walk to your car drive slow. Go somewhere clean up if your a little messy if you have a shiner put on some sun glasses. I guess if it was today I would go to a Dunkin Donuts and stick my face in a newspaper. Well I hope you never apply what I've written here. But if you need to hit'em one time for me.
     
  7. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

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    In most cases, you are correct. Most untrained and/or inexperienced individuals will resort to whatever crosses their mind. Usually, slugging it out without regard to incoming damage.

    You should always guard your head. A modified boxer's crouch is great for this. When I say modified, keep one leg back a bit more than a boxer would and have a wider stance. I always try to align my knuckles around my cheek bones with a few inches distance between. This reduces the likelyhood that a hook will slip through.

    Your plan if they rush isn't all bad, but it isn't the safest. While a knee to the face or kick to the groin may work, you'd be better off sprawling on top of them. When they rush and try to tackle you, sprawl atop them. This gives you at the least, superior position and very possibly an easy guillotine choke. If you want to be really nasty, put them in a guillotine and deliver multiple knee strikes.

    You're better off hitting the head to stop it quickly. You probably won't get a strike to the throat, but if you do get the chance, don't hit it, grab it and dig in with your fingers. This has the nasty effect of making the person feel like they are choking. HOWEVER, this isn't very likely. Focus on good hard punches or palm strikes. Sometimes, getting into a clinch is a good thing. You may very well be able to go to ground and work on a choke or lock. If you stay on your feel, knee the body over and over. Keep it simple man.

    If you are blocking the initial strike, you are late. You should have hit first and hit hard. However, you may find that pain compliance is more effective. Move in quick and tie them up. Attempt a joint lock to control them. There is a reason police officers don't box with suspects...more importantly, there is a reason they move in and attempt to wrestle the opponent into submission. Ken Shamrock is an expert at this. Watch some of his UFC fights and you'll see what I mean. Also, pay attention to some of the Gracie fights. These guys are experts in ground fighting and their record in MMA fighting is excellent.

    You are better off backing away instead of REALLY ducking. Dodge left or right, but keep facing your opponent. Don't expose more than you must.

    Always keep blocking, but a good defense is NOT a good offense.

    ALWAYS counter-strike...you won't win if you won't fight.

    You need to look for an avenue of escape. If you can knock the guy down briefly, why get back into the scrap. RUN AWAY!!!
    Aim for areas that will stop the fight. The head is usually preferable. You left out a whole bunch of things like eye gouging and grabbing ears. Most fights end up on the ground, it makes sense to learn a little about fighting there. Don't extend the engagment longer than you must though. You can't be hurt if there is no one around to hurt you.

    Strategy is bunk.
    Training is where its at. You will not rise to the occasion, you will fall back on your training. I'd suggest getting some. The simple arts are still the most effective. Grappling arts (wrestling, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Sambo) are excellent to have a good knowledge of.
    Simple striking arts (boxing, Muay Thai) are also vital. I like Muay Thai for a few reasons. One is the excellent use of knees. Two is the excellent use of kicks. Muay Thai kicks tend to be particularly devastating as they are usually landed with the shin. This REALLY hurts when training, but they are effective when landed right. You can kick someones legs right out from under them with a well placed kick. Land them with the big heavy bones, not with your foot.

    I've been studying Krav Maga for almost a year (and am at 2nd level) and recently took up Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

    I'm not ready for a career as a fighter, but I can certainly handle myself in a street fight. I've been in a couple.
    I caught significant heat here for posting about the situation that lead up to it, but such is life.
     
  8. CAnnoneer

    CAnnoneer Member

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    For some reason, most people do flail about without control. Also, they seem to target the big bones of the face, causing little harm other than to their fingers and knuckles. Also, for some reason most people prefer the outer style, which is less powerful and tends to keep them unbalanced and overexposed.

    I prefer the inner style. It delivers more damage and works both when standing and when prone. However, it does require more physical strength, and that is one of the reasons why I pump iron regularly. Disabling without grappling is really accessible only to the masters, which I am not. And grappling requires strength. So, we are back to pumping iron... :)
     
  9. KriegHund

    KriegHund Member

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    Thanks for the good responses. Currently im training in Shaolin Kempo (been doing it for 3 years). Ive learned alot but there is still very much to go.
     
  10. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

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    Krieg,

    How much grappling and ground fighting do you get in to?
    I noticed during a short stint with a Japanese art, that a lot of what they practice doesn't add up in the real world.

    I was very skeptical and watching a few older UFC bouts (specifically where Tank Abbott absolutely destroyed Asian martial artists) confirmed by suspiscion.
     
  11. Devonai

    Devonai Member

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    This doesn't work too well when you're carrying.
     
  12. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    The key to winning fights is to not be drunk and to ignore hits not aimed at the head. Let him swing first, dodge or block, wait for him to get off balance and give you an opening. 99 percent of people will not be properly balanced after taking their first real swing.

    Being sober is also an awesome way to avoid fights in the first place.

    Being sober and heavily armed is also a surefire way to avoid or win fistfights.
     
  13. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

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    If you are close enough to be in danger of getting punched, your gun belongs in it's holster.
    I would say that if you are going to fight, consider yourself unarmed.
     
  14. Kodiaz

    Kodiaz member

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    Devonai you are 100 percent right if your carrying you can't push back. you need to back down. The responsibility you assume when you carry is/ should be greater than your personal pride.


    The first post in this thread doesn't say anything about carrying.


    If your carrying you have to de escalate at the yelling phase. Sorry about that or even walk away.

    When you carry it's different.
     
  15. Tomekeuro85

    Tomekeuro85 Member

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    I'm 20 years old right now, and I dont really get into fights, but what you guys are describing are one on one fights. In my age group, fights usually go like 4 on one, and at that point no amout of training can help because theres no way to keep track of four angry flailing poeple. I have seen maybe one fight where it was truly one on one.
    However, I dont plan to fight anyone. I would say I'm pretty big, (mainly hearing it from my friends) so I am good at intimidating poeple not to fight. I strongly prefer to avoid a fight and even stop fights between people I know long before they might start. But usually when I show up everyone backs down. Little do they know I've never swung at another person in my life haha. But a bench press of 280 or so keeps me confident that if I needed to, I could cause some damage.
     
  16. Devonai

    Devonai Member

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    Kodiaz, I'm glad we agree.

    Have you ever seen what a little bit of Aikido can do in this case?

    If you know what you're doing, going up against multiple opponents can actually make your life easier, assuming your attackers aren't willing to hurt each other, too.
     
  17. Tomekeuro85

    Tomekeuro85 Member

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    Perhaps, I'm not too educated about fighting styles, but neither are many of the people I've seen get jumped. The way I see it (at least in my case) is to walk away as soon as possible, because if you get into a fight with one person, it is highly likely that 3 of their friends will be waiting to help them.
     
  18. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    This is just theory, but I learned a lesson from my rambuctious toddler a few weeks ago- torn corneas really really suck, if a toddler can do it by accident, there is no reason why a grown man couldn't grab hair, shirt, whatever with one hand, and claw/gouge eyes with the other. If it doesn't send them into panic real quick because their eyes are severely damaged, they at least won't be able to see you well enough to fight.

    There's no reason to fight fairly.;)
     
  19. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

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    You have no idea how many times I've seen a grown man reduced to a coughing, crying mess on the mat by a woman who is 80 pounds lighter than he is.

    Being strong is one thing, but knowing how to use it is quite another. BTW, if you want a stronger punch, work on your triceps too.

    If you guys haven't figured it out yet...GO GET SOME TRAINING.
     
  20. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

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    I've never been too keen on Aikido taking an almost completely defensive posture.
     
  21. Devonai

    Devonai Member

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    Hence it being taught alongside Okinawan Karate... at least in the dojo I've visited.
     
  22. Working Man

    Working Man Member

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    There is no such thing as a fair fight.... the attacker is only coming after
    you because he thinks he can beat you. If he thought you would win he
    would go elsewhere.

    Key points:

    Most attackers can't fight. Their strength is surprise, the victim's fear, and
    the general populace's reluctance to fight back.

    Fight back, treat each fight as if it was your last. Worse case scenario you're
    armed to the teeth with arms and teeth.

    If you are already engaged do not try to flee that leaves you vulnerable. Get
    mad, real mad. This is the person that is going to keep you from your kids,
    wife, or whatever you value in life. Punish them.

    If they try to flee, let them go. If they now run from you it is because they
    are scared and scared people are desperate and dangerous. No sense in
    getting hurt if avoidable.

    Avoid fights whenever possible. If the only thing getting hurt is my pride, so
    be it. With my ego... that's the only thing sure to heal. :evil:
     
  23. Kodiaz

    Kodiaz member

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    The disparity of force that lets you use a firearm when you are outnumbered also release the chain of civility if you know martial arts.

    It always starts with a push, unless your being jumped has been premeditated.


    When the guy goes to push you with grappling martial arts(Judo Aikido and the others) you can do several different techniques you can grab the arm and dislocate the elbow(this is the nicest thing you can do). You can do several throws which will have devastating consequences for the attacker. If we are talking about landing a blow do the Vulcan live long and prosper sign and jam the guy in the eyes with it and what I mean by jam is you should have blood on your hand and the guy should be blind and screaming.

    The other three will usually after seeing their friend put in pieces by any of the above actions will no longer want to fight they will not attack you effectively if they do attack. They won't attack in unison you will have several 1 on 1 engagements. I never fought more than 2 guys this way.
    I grew up in a really bad part of NJ during a really bad time.

    I got into uncounted streetfights when I was a kid. I've been jumped a bunch of times. A show of overwhelming force will make any group of punks/bullies fold.

    Now I'm older and I live in a civilized place. As an adult you usually don't get into these situations. The only place I think I could get myself into four on one trouble would be in a bar. Or walking around some really bad neighborhood.


    Let me add I again I have gotten my ass kicked many, many times. But you don't win fights without losing some.
     
  24. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    Body shots and weak points.

    Personally, I've never been big on punching to the head. My knuckles got scars from when I was a kid and didn't know any better. Getting teeth taken out at the E.R. followed by stitches isn't fun. Solid punches to the solar plexus, kidneys if you can hit them hard, if it's a real fight I'm also gonna go for a field goal with the dangly bits. Knowing a few throws will demoralize most attackers and can be useful when you surprise them by knowing how to fight and they over extend themselves. Been a long time since I was in a fight, I'd like to keep it that way.
     
  25. bogie

    bogie Member

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    I don't understand all this. This is NOT recreation.

    1) Walk away.

    2) If you can't walk away, and someone has not engaged yet, threaten with deadly force, and walk away.

    3) If someone can punch you, they can stab you - do you see a knife? Will you see one in time? Do anything you can to walk away. "Yeah, I'm ugly, and my mother dresses me funny. I kinda like it."

    4) If someone _has_ engaged, end it. Break bones, joints, aim for soft tissue. Grapple, control the arms, gain their undivided attention (most guys won't do this, but it works - get a good firm grip, squeeze and twist).

    5) Do not punch people in the head, unless you like broken bones in your hand.

    6) Maintain control of your CCW, and get free to where you can draw. If they keep coming, shoot center mass.
     
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