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stupid range rules

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by mekender, Mar 6, 2008.

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  1. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    Are trap guns not usually single-shot or double-barreled anyway? This would seem to be a moot point.

    Those are good rules. Why not simply unload your carry gun out in the parking lot or something before going in?

    Except for disallowing steel-cored or -jacketed bullets (is this what you mean by FMJ?) due to backstop damage, the indoor range I go to has none of these rules. In fact, with a certification by an instructor (one-time $15 fee) you can draw from the holster. And they rent machine guns, so they can't very well ban rapid fire. But the conditions at your range(s) might be different.
     
  2. siglite

    siglite Member

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    That'd make a great place to mug someone doing that. Free guns and you don't get shot.

    I recently found out my private range has a "NO CCW" policy on the range property and grounds. The hypocrisy was too much. I sent them a "thanks for all the fish" email. I'll be joining another range that's about 15 miles further away, or using the public range which has fairly lax rules.
     
  3. Gunnerpalace

    Gunnerpalace Member

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    There is a range here that bans Wolf BY NAME (guess folks tight on a budget like me cant shoot :( ) And Oh Yes, there are anti-gun shooting ranges and gun store's, I have often seen some of these ranges and thought their reading of the RKBA is "you have the right to own a Remington 700 to hunt with and a Ruger target pistol don't worry about criminals the police will protect you". I don't agree with 5rds max or no rapid fire at all, I am a follower of the saying "train as you fight and fight as you train".

    Everyone knows about my story of the range that REQUIRES you to hit 8in at 50 yards. Boy I'll be sure to take a new shooter there.
     
  4. K3

    K3 Member

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    Might make load development a little tougher. I did some experimenting with
    .30-30 loads, and was probably 10in off the bull at 50 when I started.
     
  5. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    Hmm. That actually has happened before, too. Backup gun?
     
  6. eventer289

    eventer289 Member

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    Sorry for the newbie question, but what does "HP" stand for? I tried looking for the abbreviation thread but couldn't find it on search.
     
  7. mnw42

    mnw42 Member

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    My range has some rules that bug some people, but they were made for a reason.

    -No gun pointed up - We've a lot of development around us. If a round leaves the range it might hit a house.

    -No rapid fire, 3 sec. between each shot - Keeps the neighbors happy and limits the ability of people walking rounds up the berm

    -Rifles must be shot from the bench. - We had people using the benches as cover like they were playing Counter-Strike

    -No cameras - We had neighbors photoshop beer bottles on to a bench in an attempt to shut us down

    -Guns not being shot must be unloaded with the actions open - that one should be fairly self explanatory.

    -No tracers - Fire.

    We allow you you to load the magazine ass much as you want, draw your carry gun from any position (except SOB), test your loads with a chrony. All of our rules are for safety or mandated by an agreement between the range and the township as a condition continued operation. Some of them were made in response to people being idiots.

    Most ATA style trap ranges allow only one round per bird because, that is the ATA rule. If you have a guy blasting away it would drive the ATA shooter nuts!
     
  8. mattsb2000

    mattsb2000 Member

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    Hollow Point


    The outdoor range I go to has a sign that says "NO MILITARY FMJ OR TRACERS"

    What does that mean? (I know what a tracer is.)
     
  9. CountGlockula

    CountGlockula Member

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    Response from an RSO

    Prevents uncontrolled rapid fire and encourages controlled firing.

    Prevents shooters wandering onto firing line.

    Prevents unwanted guests.

    Not sure about this one, since most indoor ranges allow FMJ because ammo can go straight to the back stop.

    Prevents from shrapnel or other metal pieces from bouncing back if shooter hits metal target clips.

    Prevents any kabooms.

    Prevents damage to the range's ceilings, walls, target clips, etc.

    Prevents increased noise in small indoor shooting booths.

    Prevents walking around with loaded weapon in an area where there's too much traffic.

    Prevents handling loaded weapon in restricted area.

    Any other questions?
     
  10. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    I will say this. Most folks who speak of 'stupid range rules' don't actually own a range and so they haven't had to implement rules that invariably somebody won't agree with.
     
  11. Gunnerpalace

    Gunnerpalace Member

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    I have the solution, don't frequent ranges with these rules, if they bug you, unfortunately it means for me going to thunder ranch to train for if I was in an SD scenario.
     
  12. heypete

    heypete Member

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    I understand the need for some rules.

    For example, one of the ranges I used to shoot at in California had several spectacular failures of SKS sears that would cause the gun to go uncontrollably full-auto, and which resulted in one accidental fatality. Thus, their policy states that SKS rifles can have no more than two rounds in the magazine. Yes, it's a hassle, but I think they've got a pretty good justification for it.

    I count myself lucky. The indoor range here has some basic safety rules (no crossing the firing line, no shooting non-target stuff like target hangers and walls, no turning around with guns, etc.), but they're pretty good with everything else: full-auto is allowed (hooray for friends with Uzis!), controlled rapid-fire is allowed, carrying concealed or openly is encouraged (so long as the gun stays in the holster while in the lobby -- if you need to bring your carry gun in for service, unload it outside), etc.

    When I shoot outdoors, I go out to the National Forest. The only rules there are "don't be unsafe" and "pick up your trash/cases". The first one is pretty universally followed, and I haven't heard of anyone acting unsafely out there. The latter one, alas, is not, and the various shooting spots in the forest are littered with trash (old TVs, beer bottles, etc.) and spent cases. I try to clean up by packing out a few trash bags worth of crap every time I go. That, and picking up free brass. :D

    The forest rangers stopped one day while my friend and I were shooting (various stuff, including suppressed 10/22s, suppressed full-auto Uzis, suppressed full-auto M16s, etc.) and said hello. They were very nice, and just reminded us to pick up our spent cases. They even gave us a little Smokey The Bear keychain (which I still have) for offering to let them shoot the M16s. :)

    .....

    That said, there are many ranges which have (in my opinion) some rather silly rules. Some get to be so outrageous that I simply don't bother shooting there anymore.

    Why pay to shoot at a restrictive, annoying range when I can go out to the National Forest, enjoy the sunshine and fresh air, have no pressure, and be able to enjoy shooting suppressed 10/22s as I don't have to worry about other people's guns making tons of noise.
     
  13. Conqueror

    Conqueror Member

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    The "no rapid fire" rule exists at a range near me, but they usually let me get away with it because I'm friendly with a couple employees and let them all shoot my NFA toys.

    I rarely go there though, since I'm a member of a private range club nearby. Their only annoying rule is "No .50 BMG." While I know .50 tears up the berms, they should limit the muzzle energy of weapons, not the cartridge. According to the rule I can shoot all the .510 DTC I want, which would tear up the berms just as badly. They should say "nothing over 10k ft-lbs", that would limit the berm damage and let the guys with .50s down-load their ammo for the range.
     
  14. mnw42

    mnw42 Member

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    We limit .50 BMG, not because of berm damage, but because of the noise and the blast from the muzzle brake clearing the adjacent benches.
     
  15. Conqueror

    Conqueror Member

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    Our range specifically dislikes the berm damage, at least that's what the board of directors told me. .50 ain't much louder than .338 Lapua with a muzzle brake.
     
  16. WayneConrad

    WayneConrad Member

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    "Bench only" would be very... annoying. I haven't shot from a bench in years. The bench is only there to hold my rifle during the cease fire, and for those folks who haven't put a proper sling on their rifle.

    Oh, I've got nothing against bench resters. They can play, too. But don't discriminate against people shooting a rifle from field positions, for heaven's sake. Just kick the people who think they are playing Counter-Strike off of the range. Permanently.

    The last annoying range rule my range had was no open carry. They got rid of that rule a few years back. All's well now. The rule is now that open carry is alright, except you better keep your mitts well away from that blaster during the cease fire, and of course, you can only handle it when on the line and pointed downrange in any case. Don't adjust the holster, don't use the grip as a hand rest. Leave it alone!

    When I asked why no 50BMG at our range, one RSO told me that 50BMG carries enough energy to hit a rock on the mountain that backs up the berm behind the 200 yard line, richochet back to the firing line, and still do significant hurt to someone on the line.
     
  17. esq_stu

    esq_stu Member

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    There's a range in Michigan that won't allow 7.62x39 no matter what gun - even a single shot or bolt action;

    There's another range in MI that won't allow Wolf ammo of any kind, and for rifles, requires that you only shoot ammo bought from them.
     
  18. mnw42

    mnw42 Member

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    Unfortunately the rules at public ranges are made for the lowest common denominator. Remember, you cant out smart stupid.

    You can shoot handguns off hand, just not rifles. It may seem silly at first, but ducking behind the benches happened more than once with two separate groups, but the rule is to protect those who don't due things like that. If we are selective in our enforcement of any rule they all become unenforceable. Trust me, we would love to allow people to shoot from any position, but too many people don't treat guns or others with the respect that they deserve and it ruins it for every one else. You have to create an environment that controls the abilty of fools to harm others with their careless negligence.

    There was a semi-local range that had plywood with holes cut in it on the benches. Shooters were required to have the muzzle of their gun through the hole in order to shoot. The muzzle discipline of some people is absolutely horrid.

    As the areas around outdoor ranges get built around more and more they have to be extra vigilant. The more people around the easier it becomes to shut a range down.

    There is no perfect solution and changes to a range allow the most amount of freedom and safety cost money that a lot of places just don't have.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2008
  19. Funderb

    Funderb Member

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    "no laughing"
    I leave you there.
     
  20. K3

    K3 Member

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    Laughing is necessary for when I shoot. If you saw some of my work with open sights, you'd bust a gut.
     
  21. MinnMooney

    MinnMooney Member

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    They may magnetically check the rounds but it sure isn't for fmj rounds. None of my fmj rounds were attracted to my magnet. I have a few steel casings that were attracted but they could have any kind of projectile loaded into them.

    Most ranges are run by committee and committees make up some pretty strange rules. Committees are influenced by bad events just like some government entities. If something bad happens... ban that gun!!

    Why not have a competent gunsmith check the SKS's sear pin and let the guy shoot it as it was meant to be shot. Two rounds in an SKS is like have a 3 round Uzi! Or a single-shot auto-loader.

    I belong to a private shooting club but only for the compitition that it affords. I shoot F-Class (300m). For almost all other shooting, I shoot on my own 80 acres and I can shoot fully-auto, .50 BMG, fast-draw from a holster AND I can shoot standing up in a real field-shooting position to get actual practice.
    I dislike rules as much or more than most & that's why I've got acreage.


    P.S. What the heck is wrong with "Wolf" ammo? I love the stuff. It's cheap, accurate and very well made!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2008
  22. irishvet

    irishvet Member

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    I belong to the only outdoor range with in 100 miles of my house (club only). There are some indoor ones, but are limited like others have said. It is a great place to shoot. Basic rules apply, but you can try new training, all you want, on the rifle (300 yards) pistol (25 to 75 yards) action shoot or trap. :rolleyes:(just don't shoot the ducks!) Also you can carry hot if your holstered (range is way way out in the woods) First one on the range is the range master and you go from there. But no 50 cal. or AP :(
     
  23. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    One crazy rule at my local range is "no .50 BMG or any caliber of equivalent caliber, bullet weight, and velocity, excluding black powder."

    I know why they prohibit .50 BMG and equivalent, to avoid having the backstops destroyed. But where are these .50 cal muzzleloaders that can shoot a 750 gr bullet at 2800 fps?
     
  24. Funderb

    Funderb Member

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    By my own guess work,
    the rule was made after a bitter range officer got laughed at for saying something stupid.
     
  25. cpileri

    cpileri Member

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    a few more

    Here's a few that drove me off a range more than once.

    And BTW, just because a rule "makes sense" or that you can see the
    reason behind it, does NOT mean its a 'good' rule- as in a rule that
    should be on the books. That's the mentality that gets us to "if it
    saves just one life, its worth it."

    Here's the rules, almost all of which i disagree with either mildly or
    strongly, yet i include the 'reason behind it' just for clarification.

    1. No 50 caliber, not even 50 cal muzzle loaders or handguns. Reason:
    too powerful. OK, sure maybe fo rthe 50 BMG.

    2. Shotgun must shoot clay birds in skeet fashion only. No shooting any
    other targets. No shooting downrange at "nothing but air" just to see
    if your new mag extension feeds. No slugs. No way to pattern your
    shotgun.

    3. No shotgun slugs, even on the rifle range.

    4. Broad rimmed hat: prevent hot brass from falling down your ear or
    shirt, and having a guy hopping around yelling "ooo hot brass! hot
    brass!" with his finger on the trigger blowing everyone else away.

    5. No shooting those spinning metal 22LR targets, not even with a 22LR
    on the 22LR range, at longer than the required safe distance.

    6. No rapid fire, unless you are a government employee/agent/Blackhawk
    or other security contractor practicing for a being sent overseas. Note
    this is a public range, not a military range. But if you are 'special'
    the you get to play full auto.

    Just to name a few.
    C-
     
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