brentwal
Member
Good idea.
For a muzzle loader
For a muzzle loader
Anyone agree with "1 round at a time" range rules?
- Thread starter Monkeybear
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tbtrout
Member
I would not join one range because they would only let you have 5 rounds at a time. There are enough restrictions on my guns, when I get to a place I can use them, I want to use them. Not have some Range Nazi tell me I fired 6 shots of 38 when it should have been 5. It is their range, their rules to make and our choice not to join.
Bergeron
Member
I really don't like rules like that, but I understand why they are there. Some folks just don't know what they are doing, and can be problematic.
That kind of rule is something that I see more of at indoor ranges, and I assume this is to protect the range itself. I've seen ranges with bullet damage in the ceiling, floor, and along the side walls. I remeber shopping around in a store/range several years ago and seeing a woman shooting with a male partner. For some strange reason, she had the butt against her hip, and the barrel was up at a 45 degree angle. BOOM! She fired the gun and pieces of the ceiling came raining down. BOOM! She fired a second time, before any of the folks working there could get her to stop.
Then you've got people that buy guns that they can't control, and send shots all over the place.
If a range has reactive targets, you've got to worry about folks shooting at them with rounds that they aren't prepared to stop. I've seen people shoot at rimfire-gauged steel with their 22 Hornets, and even jerks who shoot down the supporting posts of standing targets.
One round a time, slow fire only, no drawing from the holster, and rules of that nature try to minimize the damage to range or decrease the danger posed by a shooter to his fellow customers, but they tend to frustrate the experienced, knowledgeable customers.
So, what do you, as the owner of the range, do? You can limit your range to members only, or you can require that all shooters take a 10-minute familiarization class, or you can increase your rangemaster staff, but all of these will cost you money.
Personally, I prefer ranges with minimal rules. As was stated earlier, only 4 are required. But, if I'm shooting at range with these rules, I understand why they are there.
That kind of rule is something that I see more of at indoor ranges, and I assume this is to protect the range itself. I've seen ranges with bullet damage in the ceiling, floor, and along the side walls. I remeber shopping around in a store/range several years ago and seeing a woman shooting with a male partner. For some strange reason, she had the butt against her hip, and the barrel was up at a 45 degree angle. BOOM! She fired the gun and pieces of the ceiling came raining down. BOOM! She fired a second time, before any of the folks working there could get her to stop.
Then you've got people that buy guns that they can't control, and send shots all over the place.
If a range has reactive targets, you've got to worry about folks shooting at them with rounds that they aren't prepared to stop. I've seen people shoot at rimfire-gauged steel with their 22 Hornets, and even jerks who shoot down the supporting posts of standing targets.
One round a time, slow fire only, no drawing from the holster, and rules of that nature try to minimize the damage to range or decrease the danger posed by a shooter to his fellow customers, but they tend to frustrate the experienced, knowledgeable customers.
So, what do you, as the owner of the range, do? You can limit your range to members only, or you can require that all shooters take a 10-minute familiarization class, or you can increase your rangemaster staff, but all of these will cost you money.
Personally, I prefer ranges with minimal rules. As was stated earlier, only 4 are required. But, if I'm shooting at range with these rules, I understand why they are there.
hmmmm, we treat new shooters that way ...
Boy scouts are handed one shotshell at a time. I believe it's because when they make a good shot it's pretty typical that they'll turn to thier friends to brag/smile/gloat/etc, sweeping everyone in sight.
I actually adopted the practice when starting new folks off. As they show restraint, I "graduate" them into regular use.
I don't know if that's the rational, but it does get old getting swept by some noob.
But my experience is folks who think they know gun safety can be pretty reckless. I was at a public range, totally unsupervised. A guy shows up with an AK (variant), and I get to talking with him. Nice kid, certainly not his first rifle. I go back to shooting. Next thing I know, hes standing out to the side of the stations, attempting to bump fire. Gets a partial mag to dump. I go over in the middle of it, see that he's all over the place with it, walking bullets in the dirt and up the backstop, and 99% sure over the backstop. I have no idea how far away the nearest house is down range, but I gave him a mini lecture. He was clueless. I left just hoping something would sink in?
Having said all that, I wouldn't use a range that forced 1 round per gun across the board.
Boy scouts are handed one shotshell at a time. I believe it's because when they make a good shot it's pretty typical that they'll turn to thier friends to brag/smile/gloat/etc, sweeping everyone in sight.
I actually adopted the practice when starting new folks off. As they show restraint, I "graduate" them into regular use.
I don't know if that's the rational, but it does get old getting swept by some noob.
But my experience is folks who think they know gun safety can be pretty reckless. I was at a public range, totally unsupervised. A guy shows up with an AK (variant), and I get to talking with him. Nice kid, certainly not his first rifle. I go back to shooting. Next thing I know, hes standing out to the side of the stations, attempting to bump fire. Gets a partial mag to dump. I go over in the middle of it, see that he's all over the place with it, walking bullets in the dirt and up the backstop, and 99% sure over the backstop. I have no idea how far away the nearest house is down range, but I gave him a mini lecture. He was clueless. I left just hoping something would sink in?
Having said all that, I wouldn't use a range that forced 1 round per gun across the board.
I *hate* that rule. 
Carter's Country requires that for "big bore rifles". Obeying that rule kept me from realizing I had a problem with my rifle last summer: because I had not needed to work the extractor and let another round come up into the chamber, I didn't realize the thing wasn't working. I found out when I went to put a second shot into a hog and ended up with two rounds in the chamber at once. Had I been able to use the rifle at the range as I needed to in the field, it wouldn't have happened.
(The ranch owner put the pig down for me, thankfully...but that should never have had to happen.)
Stupid rule.
Springmom
Carter's Country requires that for "big bore rifles". Obeying that rule kept me from realizing I had a problem with my rifle last summer: because I had not needed to work the extractor and let another round come up into the chamber, I didn't realize the thing wasn't working. I found out when I went to put a second shot into a hog and ended up with two rounds in the chamber at once. Had I been able to use the rifle at the range as I needed to in the field, it wouldn't have happened.(The ranch owner put the pig down for me, thankfully...but that should never have had to happen.)
Stupid rule.
Springmom
NeverAgain26
Member
We have 5 round per magazine rule at our range and it was explained to me that it was a safety issue in case a gun ever went full-auto due to a faulty gun.
Saul Levy
Saul Levy
Zundfolge
Member
I've shot at indoor ranges that have the "No Headshots" rule. I asked why at one range and the response was "Because too many yahoos trying to shoot headshots keep hitting my target hangers and they ain't cheap".
As much as I dislike inane rules, I have to admit this one made sense.
As much as I dislike inane rules, I have to admit this one made sense.
All ranges I've used for my practice have some sort of restrictions on rapid fire. I made it a habit to talk about this issue to owner / range officer before joining the club or shooting there for the first time. From my experience, just talking to folks allows one to show his/her competence. And, by talking about this in advance, you also show a respect to the range rules [agree or not] and safety.
"Oh-no, I can't practice my double-taps and malfunction clearance drills?" Most range personnel are not amateurs and they understand. Nobody said "no" to me so far.
"Oh-no, I can't practice my double-taps and malfunction clearance drills?" Most range personnel are not amateurs and they understand. Nobody said "no" to me so far.
sithanas
Member
I think all the State of Michigan ranges are single load only - at least Bald Mountain and Island Lake are.
As I understand it, the issues are noise control some (pretty amazingly) bad shooters who they don't want spraying the entire range with fire.
As I understand it, the issues are noise control some (pretty amazingly) bad shooters who they don't want spraying the entire range with fire.
no headshots? hang your targets upside down and take low headshots
you'll be able to clip a man's junk off at 15 yards, worst case scenario.
single shot's dumb, except where it's customary, such as with singles clay shooting. just put up a sign that says "NO RAPID FIRE," make sure the patrons know it's at your discretion what that means, and enforce it. kick a few people out and word will get around. it's just as easy to let people know about that rule as it would be to let people know about a one-shot rule, and you'll certainly have less people b'ing and moaning.
you'll be able to clip a man's junk off at 15 yards, worst case scenario.
single shot's dumb, except where it's customary, such as with singles clay shooting. just put up a sign that says "NO RAPID FIRE," make sure the patrons know it's at your discretion what that means, and enforce it. kick a few people out and word will get around. it's just as easy to let people know about that rule as it would be to let people know about a one-shot rule, and you'll certainly have less people b'ing and moaning.
earplug
Member
Worst case
Was training with the Nebraska Ng close to thirty years ago.
Officer incharge limited us to one round at a time. Ever try loading one round in a AR 16 and trying to shoot a decent group.
Most range rules don't work.
Was training with the Nebraska Ng close to thirty years ago.
Officer incharge limited us to one round at a time. Ever try loading one round in a AR 16 and trying to shoot a decent group.
Most range rules don't work.
expvideo
Member
Let's see... How many real gunfights occur at a one shot per second rate?
That's right. My favorite thing to do at the range is to shoot as rapidly as I can, while still hitting vitals. When I start shooting rapidly, everyone else's ego (read "manhood") gets challenged, so everyone else on the range starts doing it too. It cracks me up. gotta love the testosterone. My girlfriend thinks it's pretty funny too.
That's right. My favorite thing to do at the range is to shoot as rapidly as I can, while still hitting vitals. When I start shooting rapidly, everyone else's ego (read "manhood") gets challenged, so everyone else on the range starts doing it too. It cracks me up. gotta love the testosterone. My girlfriend thinks it's pretty funny too.
Robert Hairless
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I find the "no rapid fire" or "no faster than one shot a second" rule at indoor ranges I use annoying and limiting. They interfere with my drills. The range officers at one of those indoor ranges know me and seem to trust me, so I when I asked about the rule one of them suggested that if I hang around until the range closes he'll show me one major reason for it.
He turned on all the lights and asked me to look up at the ceiling while we walked downrange: the wooden beams were shot to pieces, the ceiling was heavily pockmarked, and the lighting fixtures were bullet riddled. Then he walked me back and asked me to look at the concrete floor: it was thoroughly pockmarked too. Then he walked me along the lane dividers and asked me to look at the barriers between lanes: several of them had multiple bullet holes.
Scared the hell out of me.
He turned on all the lights and asked me to look up at the ceiling while we walked downrange: the wooden beams were shot to pieces, the ceiling was heavily pockmarked, and the lighting fixtures were bullet riddled. Then he walked me back and asked me to look at the concrete floor: it was thoroughly pockmarked too. Then he walked me along the lane dividers and asked me to look at the barriers between lanes: several of them had multiple bullet holes.
Scared the hell out of me.
Agreed.
When I shoot centerfire handguns, I'm practicing in case I ever have to use the thing "for real."
I learned to hit the target 25 years ago. That's not why I'm practicing.
Our range has pockmarks and holes, too. Rapid fire has little or nothing to do with it.
I've known people, generally men too egotistical and insecure to actually learn to shoot, who can't hit the broad side of a barn, and I mean that almost literally. Flinch, usually.
Those who CAN shoot, know when they're on target, whether they're shooting 1 shot per 2 seconds, or double-taps. I don't pull the trigger if the gun isn't pointed at the target, fast or slow. And I'm not god's gift to handgun shooting or anything. I just don't like shooting at the walls, floor, or ceiling.
The only time I have ever been restricted at a range was when I was in Amanzimtoti in South Africa. They had a 5 round limit, but it was not a magazine restriction it was a count restriction. They were fine with me shooting 5, waiting and shooting another 5.
As regards the original question about a 1 round loaded restriction, there is one case that comes to mind where this would have saved somebody's life. The case in question concerns a gentleman who was firing a pistol with a very light trigger. He unwittingly fired two shots, the second one being discharged while the muzzle was flipped upwards. That bullet had an upward trajectory and it passed between a wall and a galvanised roof, deflected off the underside of the roof on the other side of the wall and then had a shallow downward trajectory over a back range and it finally hit a young man who was sitting in the range office. This was a fatal wound to the head. The shooter wasn't even aware of what he had done. I might have some of the details wrong, but that is how one Trey Cooley was killed.
Nonetheless I think that incident could have been prevented if the shooter knew his limitations and didn't lighten that trigger so much. One round per magazine is no good for training.
As regards the original question about a 1 round loaded restriction, there is one case that comes to mind where this would have saved somebody's life. The case in question concerns a gentleman who was firing a pistol with a very light trigger. He unwittingly fired two shots, the second one being discharged while the muzzle was flipped upwards. That bullet had an upward trajectory and it passed between a wall and a galvanised roof, deflected off the underside of the roof on the other side of the wall and then had a shallow downward trajectory over a back range and it finally hit a young man who was sitting in the range office. This was a fatal wound to the head. The shooter wasn't even aware of what he had done. I might have some of the details wrong, but that is how one Trey Cooley was killed.
Nonetheless I think that incident could have been prevented if the shooter knew his limitations and didn't lighten that trigger so much. One round per magazine is no good for training.
Orthonym
Member
Oh, Mr. Hairless, here's something I put up a while back, about indoor ranges:
http://enemiesofthelibrary.blogspot.com/2005/12/i-hate-indoor-ranges.html
http://enemiesofthelibrary.blogspot.com/2005/12/i-hate-indoor-ranges.html
fattsgalore
Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
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One of the ranges i go to won't allow head shoots.(they don't feel like coming back and replacing those little black clips, it's a dollar if you do.) another spot i go to won't allow remanufactured rounds. But no magazine limits. Thats crap.
WeedWhacker
Member
steelhead said:
I bought a second Glock not that long ago. I took both out on a shooting trip. I picked up one, felt a fiendish grin creep across my face, picked up the other, then emptied both magazines as quickly as I could, taking great care not to let either hand stray anywhere close to the other hand's line of fire. Then I reloaded and did it again.
I did learn something that day. You need VERY LARGE hands to quickly and easily reload two Glocks while holding both in your hands at the same time.
Of course, I was standing out in the middle of a desert when I tried this, and was shooting at the base of a 300-400 foot high ridge...
koja48
member
Reasonable courtesy limitations good, "No-Idiot" rules, better. My range doesn't have the former (but it's a small membership) and adamantly enforces the latter on the rare occasion when one slips in as a guest.
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Idiotic range rules are usually the result of an idiotic range members.
I'm all in favor of anti idiot rules, too.
The problem usually crops up around here on smaller ranges that don't have a staff, or even consistent use, and so the perpetrators aren't identified, never mind dealt with.
The other part is that whenever you get a gun fearing wussy moving in near a range, their standard playbook calls for documenting all cases of idiocy, and then bring them to the town council to point out what the dangerous yahoos are up to down at the gun club.
I'm all in favor of anti idiot rules, too.
The problem usually crops up around here on smaller ranges that don't have a staff, or even consistent use, and so the perpetrators aren't identified, never mind dealt with.
The other part is that whenever you get a gun fearing wussy moving in near a range, their standard playbook calls for documenting all cases of idiocy, and then bring them to the town council to point out what the dangerous yahoos are up to down at the gun club.
Their goal is to control fire- they figure that if you have more rounds in the magazine, you will be more apt to spray and prey rather than taking well aimed shots. Some ranges also have these round limits as a percieved safety. Picture Bubba saying " I is ben dun shots a bunch of dem bullets. Figures there was none left. didn't think it would go bang..."
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