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Sturdy vs. AmSec - Finally Decided

Discussion in 'Shooting Gear and Storage' started by Triumph, Oct 25, 2010.

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  1. Keizer

    Keizer Member

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    I'm hearing crickets again. :D So, we can only assume that the only warranty work that would most likely pop up would be from normal wear and tear. In which case, the Sturdy warranty is not better than AMSECS. You would have to spend a load of money in shipping to have your safe repaired by Sturdy in this case. Where as with AMSEC, you could find a local dealer to come right out to your home and pay a much smaller fee for the repair compared to Sturdy shipping costs.
     
  2. heeler

    heeler Member

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    Since Houston gets anywhere from 45-60 inches of rain pretty much every year along with strong Hurricanes which also bring tons of rain, raising your Sturdy is not a bad idea at all if you are sure you want to have it in the garage.
    Also consider a lot of garage slabs in our area usually sit a couple of inches lower than the house concrete slab.
    My house has never flooded in the 31 years I have lived in it but back in 2001 when tropical storm Allison hit, my area had around 32 inches of rain in 12 hours, and if it had rained even another half hour my house surely would have flooded and in fact it was around 1/4 of an inch from coming in(missed a bullet there!) when the rains subsided and since my garage slab is two inches lower than the house foundation water came into the garage.
    Fortunately nothing was ruined.
    Any metal shop can build a good steel stand out of heavy angle iron for your safe for very little money.
     
  3. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    ....Or putting it on something that floats ;)
     
  4. btn

    btn member

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    So then your comments also apply to fire and theft. Which means all warranties are useless except for lock warranties. And since the chance's of your safe ever being attacked are so small do we really even need a safe to begin with?

    Again the point is when comparing warranties it's important to use the correct information.

    Instead of taking paragraphs, and various threads, to explain something all the safe expert on the other site had to do was say this...

    Pretty straight, to the point and accurate.
     
  5. heeler

    heeler Member

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    It's getting late but since this issue of warranty came up I looked at what is most important to me and that is Amsec will at no cost to me repair or replace if it is forcibly entered.
    If subjected to a drill,punch,or pry attack and has been successful in keeping the intruders out it will be repaired or replaced free of charge.
    Same thing for fire.
    They go on to say they will pay for a safe tech to open my safe and pay the tech for the repair and if this is not possible they will pay for freight back to the factory.
    Good enough for me and what may or may not be left is where my homeowners insurance kicks in.
    Although as far as workmansip such as bolt linkage or locks failing I am a phone call away from a very large number of Amsec authorized safe and vault techs within a very few miles of my home.
    As far as my Amsec goes I have opened it probably very close to daily and some days more than even that for a year now as of next month and so far not one issue.
    As was pointed out there's really not much that can go wrong and even then more times than not it's the lock that will be the issue with the electronic locks getting the lower marks.
     
  6. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    You're not far off. Fire and theft damage would be paid for by your insurance company. I'd have to pull up everything in the computer, but I do a lot of warranty work for all sorts of manufacturers, and I'd bet that 95% of them are lock related.

    Why talk about it when you can just post the written warranties? There's not much to debate. Most of them are very similar.

    Why are you posting what he said, and not the written warranty itself?

    Sorry, guess I was confused. Nobody's been using the correct information when comparing other features. I didn't realize it was imperative when it came to the warranty, which honestly, is probably the least important "feature".
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2010
  7. btn

    btn member

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    I did several posts back. That's why I thought what he said was short, to the point and accurate.

    Why would you ship the safe back for normal wear and tear work? Wouldn't a local locksmith charge the same small amount for a Sturdy as an Amsec?

    I'm not sure that they will pay. While the Sturdy guarantee is clear, they pay for shipping for defects and fire damage, the Amsec one says they do not pay for shipping in the middle of their warranty pdf, later they say it has to be "prepaid" it just doesn't say by whom.

    I guess all I'm saying is it's not as clear as I thought it was, in fact it's more then a little confusing. I'm not worrried I don't have an Amsec but if I was going to buy one I would make sure I understood what is covered and not covered before I bought one.

    Then again as others have said it probably doesn't matter anyway...
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2010
  8. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    Sturdy claims that they are a "repair station", and have been for over 30 years, for an assortment of safe manufacturers.

    Locksmiths might work for anybody. Safe techs tend to be a bit more selective. Most safe companies will support all of the manufacturers they represent. They may not be willing to work for "the competition".

    You're reading their commercial warranty. As I've already stated, there are several warranties that cover the several lines they sell. What is true for one, may not be true for the other.
     
  9. adirondack

    adirondack member

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    Well good thing they fix other manufacturers' safes, otherwise they'd have nothing to do but wait for a fire or theft damaged Sturdy to come back.
     
  10. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    Or the opposite; why doesn't Amsec offer a lifetime warranty if they feel nothing will ever go wrong. Would be a great bonus and cost Amsec little to nothing.
     
  11. Keizer

    Keizer Member

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    Sturdy could spend some of their down time making their safes look better. This is not a bash to the OP, or any other Sturdy owner. The OP has actually joked about how the Sturdy safe doesn't look as nice as an AMSEC anyway.

    But yeah, just changing their default color, and some of the exterior hardware would make a world of difference. I know that Sturdy owners will say "Who cares about looks....I want functionality" and that's ok for the tiny customer base that Sturdy has. The problem is, the huge uneducated population will choose a nice looking inferior safe over a more robust Sturdy safe and pay more to do so.

    When I was shopping last year, all my research came down to AMSEC, and Sturdy as the two most popular options as far as being equal in security and price. A fire lined Sturdy, and the BF series AMSEC came in close to the same price. It was a no brainer for me to choose the nicer looking of the two since they are considered equal in security.

    Some will also argue that..... why care about looks when you want the safe hidden in a closet? Again, if a study was done, you would most likely find that the majority of people have their safe out in the open as some kind of status symbol/piece of furniture and want a nice looking safe.

    It's sad that an uneducated person will choose a cheap pretty safe over a Sturdy, or AMSEC (they do make nicer looking safes than AMSEC's too!) but they will all day long. I really think they could boost their sales by dolling up their safes a bit. And the two things I mentioned above should not add to the cost.

    I think the fact that the AMSECS look so much nicer inside and out, is why Sturdy owners try so hard to bash AMSEC's level of security. I certainly won't ever argue about Sturdys level of security. I think it's top notch. But again, I do think they could boost sales if they added some low cost appearance upgrades that would give their safes a more traditional "safe" look. Sturdy spends so much time selling how tough their safe is, and that's only half of what the majority of shoppers are looking for.

    Just my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2010
  12. heeler

    heeler Member

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    Some very interesting points have been brought up here.
    Warranty...Well if someone would have to send a half ton safe back to the maker in the unlikely event that there was a lockout due to a relocker firing or a linkage that broke,that certainly would be no fun.
    The other side has a rather large network of authorized safe techs to call on.
    Both safes offer pretty much the same break in fire warranty.
    One poster has made the claim that a break in or fire is rare.
    This poster thinks not,at least where I live.
    Example,according to CrimeReports.com my small neighborhood has had around 12 home burglaries since mid August.
    Each day I come home I am wondering about my own.
    Thank God and the U.S. dollar I have my BF.
    The house next door to me burned to the ground 20 years ago and one across the street caught fire burned down killing a 17 year old girl three years ago most likely due to the excessive amount of plugged in Christmas lights.
    My whole reason for spending the money on the safe was theft prevention and to a lessor degree,fire protection.
    This is why I want a no charge shipping and full replacement warranty from the maker.
     
  13. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    I'm curious as to who's safes they're fixing? Which manufacturer would send their safe to another manufacturer for repair? With very few exceptions, most repairs are made in the field.

    And the most exciting part, is that in California, a license is required for those working on safes. They don't appear to have one of those licenses, as they don't appear in the searchable database.

    It seems possible that they may be stretching the truth, or might even be committing illegal acts. Perhaps a complaint needs to be filed in order for the state to conduct an investigation? I'm not 100% sure how this all works in California, so I have posted the question in a safe tech forum where there are several members in that state who are familiar with the laws.

    Who here knows what AMSEC's real warranty is?. Those in here complaining about them still haven't shown AMSEC's written warranty as it applies to their gun safes. It's not really that tough. A written version comes inside of every safe sold.

    As far as why they wouldn't? Most of this stuff is directly related to the marketing games played by gun safe manufacturers. AMSEC is not a gun safe manufacturer, and probably doesn't want to ever be confused as such. They are a real safe manufacturer that just so happens to have a line of gun safes.

    They changed a part of their warranty just a few years ago to get more in tune with what some of the other gun safe manufacturers were offering, and it took them forever to do that.

    Last I checked they were churning out more than 60,000 units a year. If Sturdy has sold 6 safes a day, 365 days a year, for the last 30 years, they should just now be catching up to what AMSEC has sold this year alone. I'm confident AMSEC knows what they're doing when it comes to designing, building, and warranting their products.

    Why do some firearm manufacturers offer lifetime warranties and others do not? What kind of written warranty does Glock offer, and why are they so popular? Why does a Kia have a 5 year warranty, and a Lamborghini only have a 3 year? It is because Kia is the better car?

    Warranties don't mean a thing. What matters is how many problems there are. So far, even though I've asked the question multiple times, we can't find anybody who's had a problem with their safe that wasn't lock related. Without a problem, there's no need for a warranty (other than a marketing tactic).
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2010
  14. Triumph

    Triumph Member

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    I had posted a link to the AmSec warranty in a separate thread. Their warranty of the BF is different than their other safes. It seems to say that they will repair or replace on sight or pay for shipping for any fire or burglary. I did not see any fine print. It is in PDF format & I can't figure out how to put it in the thread. Maybe Frank can do it.

    I had a discussion with Alyssa at Sturdy yesterday about warranties.

    Thier standard warranty covers local locksmith repair and/or frieght (if needed) for any fire damage or mechanical malfunction.

    They have an additional warranty for $150 that will cover any damage due to attempted burglary. She admitted that it is not likely to be needed. I asked her what freight would be if I removed the safe door & sent it back for repair. Freight from Houston to CA & back is $350.
    With my luck some knucklehead will take a sledge to my dail. So at $100 an hour for a local locksmith or $350 for freight the $150 (for life) is worth is for me.

    It is my understanding that AmSec will cover locksmith shipping & freight for fire & burglary no matter what (BF series only).

    At the end of the day I was $4000 for an AmSec BF7250 loaded with door organizer, interior lighting, heat rod & an unneeded jewelry tray. I would pay an additional $250-$300 to have the safe picked up & delivered. So that is $4,250-$4,300 delivered, installed with all taxes. That is a great price on a loaded AmSec BF 7250 that not many others can get. As heeler knows the reason for that is that we have a huge local gun dealer that buys there safes by the truckload. The other AmSec dealers in town can't touch that price.

    So for the Sturdy I am $3858 for the 72x48x27 (Deep) with an upgrade for a keyed S&G dail (so my kids & neighbors kids won't stand there & spin dail), an extra heavy duty 150lb shelf ($13), the extra $150 for burglary warranty, delivered with no tax. Since the Sturdy will be delivered to my driveway I will put it in the garage myself & bolt it down.

    So at the end of the day $150 separates the two. For anyone else in a different town this may be a $500 difference. As Frank stated on a separate thread $4,000 for the BF7250 was a heck of a deal.

    So then you ask why the Sturdy, given the fact the AmSec was only $150 more & installed? For me it came down to Terry at Sturdy. To have an owner of the company call me on a Saturday morning & talk to me for 30 minutes and again on Monday afternoon shows a deep level of committment to customer service. I can live with the decision to give a man like that my business. I am sure I will love the safe even though it doesn't look as nice.

    Frank - Can you cut & paste their BF warranty? It may help all those that are still trying to decide now & in the future.
     
  15. btn

    btn member

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    I assume the warranty I cut and paste from the PDF on their site is accurate.

    And no one is complaining about their warranty, just trying to clarify what it is since it was more then a little confusing.

    I still think the 2 line post from the other message board sums it up correctly.
     
  16. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    I suppose as long as you think so, that's all that's really important.
     
  17. btn

    btn member

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    How many safes does Sentry churn out yearly? My guess is way more then 60,000. Not compaing Amsecs quality to Sentry just showing that the logic in your statement is flawed.
     
  18. btn

    btn member

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    Is it incorrect? If so what is? No need at this point for lengthy explanations, yes or no would be fine. If yes then how about a similiar 2 lines setting the record straight?
     
  19. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    I've already explained that AMSEC offers several different warranties depending on which safe you're looking at. This is even true with the gun safes. Different models have different warranties.

    It seems to me like you're latching on to a non issue in order to get some sort of "gotcha" moment. I'm not playing that game.

    AMSEC provides a written warranty inside of each safe they sell. I suggest whomever is looking at an AMSEC product read the literature included in the safe while they are out looking at them.

    I'm sorry it is so difficult, but I don't run AMSEC, and I don't own them, therefore I have no say in how they opearte their business. If they only built one product like other manufacturers it would probably be more cut and dry.
     
  20. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    A lot. Sentry is probably the largest manufacturer of fire rated products. Logic isn't flawed at all. Sentry makes some very high end products too. You can find them sold under the Schwab label, which they are changing over to a Sentry label. This includes commercial safes, fire files, and vault doors.

    Of course they only come with a 1 year warranty themselves.

    So yet here's another HUGE manufacturer, who builds an excellent product, and yet doesn't have a lifetime warranty.
     
  21. btn

    btn member

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    Nope. I posted something on the other site that i read here and those two lines were his correction. Based on the Amsec PDF for "gun safes" he was correct. If he was incorrect I would like to let the person thinking about buying the Amsec BF know. It really shouldn't be so hard to pin down. I think I did and he was correct but if I am mistaken please let me know.
     
  22. btn

    btn member

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    The vast majority, probably 99%, of Sentry Safes sold can be broken into within a very short time by an average person. See YouTube. That's why claiming that total units sold is any basis for determining quality is flawed.
     
  23. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    There are multiple warranties for their gun safe line, dependent upon which model you're looking at. I'm not aware of one warranty sheet that explains them all. The only warranties that I have seen are the ones printed and included in each new safe.

    The person thinking about buying the safe should read the literature included with the safe when they go check them out at their local dealer. Then they wouldn't have to worry about who says what on the internet.

    So can 99% of gun safes. I fail to see the flaw in the argument.
     
  24. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    Triumph, I've had a Sturdy Safe for something like 18 months now, after doing similar extensive research, and having a similar terrific experience talking with Terry and his daughter over the phone. They are a first class company. I have been 100% happy with my Sturdy "safe," and would definitely buy from them again if I ever needed to (though I might buy a larger size, for the same reasons that everyone tells you to buy bigger than you think you need...).
     
  25. adirondack

    adirondack member

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    Kaiser, changing the exterior color and upgrading the hardware to gold plated is an option on Sturdy's safes. I think their looks are great as is though and besides, the last thing I want is for someone thinking there must be something really valuable inside.
     
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