I have a .17hmr which load wise really sucks, its a little to much for squrriel and can be questionable for coyote. So I'm thinking about getting a .223 bolt action and loading some sub sonic loads for squrriel which i think a subsonic fmj will just pass through and do what a .22lr does, but i also want to use it for coyote hunting so il be loading a hotter load but not quit a full load. I'm kinda new to .223 and will be reloading soon for some if the guns i have that ammo is hard to find and only etting harder. So does anybody have a suggestion on twist rate for my application?
Subsonic 223 for hunting small game and even up to coyote?
- Thread starter amc317
- Start date
- Status
Depends on how accurate your subsonic loads are. Usually accuracy will fall off when you load below standard velocities.
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,181
I still can't see the point of SS .223 but I have plenty of pellet guns and .22s,l and LR.
On a coyote a regular .223 is not a bad choice, I don't count on .22's for them but that is because they generally don't get to close and a reason SS .223 wouldn't work for me.
On a coyote a regular .223 is not a bad choice, I don't count on .22's for them but that is because they generally don't get to close and a reason SS .223 wouldn't work for me.
adobewalls
Member
Not sub-sonic, but there are loads out there that are what I call "low report" loads that may work for you; especially on coyotes.
These loads use 45 to 60 grain bullets, and powders such as Trail boss, Clays, Blue Dot, etc.
I have workable loads for a 52 gr. Speer BTHP that uses 14.0 gr. of Blue Dot and a 60 gr. Hdy V-max load that uses 13.0 Blue Dot. The 52 gr. load shoots about an inch low at a 100 while the 60 gr. V-max shoots about 1-1/2 inches low from my normal zero. Both are considerably quieter than normal .223 loads.
These loads use 45 to 60 grain bullets, and powders such as Trail boss, Clays, Blue Dot, etc.
I have workable loads for a 52 gr. Speer BTHP that uses 14.0 gr. of Blue Dot and a 60 gr. Hdy V-max load that uses 13.0 Blue Dot. The 52 gr. load shoots about an inch low at a 100 while the 60 gr. V-max shoots about 1-1/2 inches low from my normal zero. Both are considerably quieter than normal .223 loads.
moxie
Member
To me, .22LR is overkill for most squirrel shooting. I prefer a decent BB gun.
So why use a .223 at any velocity for them?
For coyote, yes, the .223 can be perfect. Fast twist rifling (1:7) is needed for very heavy or long bullets. The 1:8 or 1:9 is fine for everything else. Many bolt guns in .223 have a 1:8 or 1:9 as standard. But some designed particularly for varmints and light bullets have a slow 1:12 twist.
So why use a .223 at any velocity for them?
For coyote, yes, the .223 can be perfect. Fast twist rifling (1:7) is needed for very heavy or long bullets. The 1:8 or 1:9 is fine for everything else. Many bolt guns in .223 have a 1:8 or 1:9 as standard. But some designed particularly for varmints and light bullets have a slow 1:12 twist.
gamestalker
member
My favorite coyote and general varmint choice is a .270 win. loaded with a 90 gr. HP and 60.0 gr. of IMR-4350. But then again, I like vaporizing them, literally. Two words, "red mist".
GS
GS
Where we are hunting we have out to about 80 yard shots so a BB gun is a no go, maybe if i had a 25 cal air rifle but by te time i pay for a good one and all the equipment for it i might as well buy a sothing else, and read it again i want it for squrriel and coyote. And anything in between. Sure a .17hmr can do that but its a tad to much for squrriel and not quit enough for coy tote.
627PCFan
Member
Did you try the 17 20gn Soft points or the FMJ's for squirrels?
moxie
Member
Sneak up closer with your BB gun. 
Coltdriver
Member
There are lots of ss .223 loads available as mentioned by Adobewalls.
I have loaded up some of these using a 22 Hornet bullet. They work great for squirrels.
All of my 40 and 50 grain bullet loads were with Varget or H335 and were fast. You could download a bit but for a coyote a flatter shooting round works best for me. I could get my 50 grain bullet out to a point blank range of 235 yards.
I have loaded up some of these using a 22 Hornet bullet. They work great for squirrels.
All of my 40 and 50 grain bullet loads were with Varget or H335 and were fast. You could download a bit but for a coyote a flatter shooting round works best for me. I could get my 50 grain bullet out to a point blank range of 235 yards.
Pick a .22 Hornet bullet and use a fast shotgun power to push them to .22 Mag+ velocities for squirrel. Standard .223 will be fine for Coyotes, unless you just want to use a heavier bullet and go subsonic. The fast twist needed for heavy bullets at slow speed will do OK with the light ones.
I dont want a loud noise for squrriel, thats why i want subsonic. I can always lessen the powder volume to put the noise where i want it. I can always get a power see for this too. But i heard a lead cast is easy to stabilize at slow speeds so i cant see why a .22 hornet bullet cant. I like that idea if using .22 hornet bullets.
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,181
I don't know where you live but a bolt action .22 loaded with CB caps makes less noise than an air rifle and good for small animals up close. I have used CCI's SS HP on armadillos trying to burrow underneath my AC condenser pads, with a Remington pump action .22.
Out of my suppressed 77/22 dry firing makes more noise than firing a CB cap at least until the bullet impacts on something.
Out of my suppressed .223's supersonic ammunition sounds like you are firing a .22 LR with "normal" ammunition.
My suppressed 9mm and 458 socom rifles are both very quite with SS ammo and both have much more energy, along with bullets designed to preform at thoes speeds, than the .223's.
Out of my suppressed 77/22 dry firing makes more noise than firing a CB cap at least until the bullet impacts on something.
Out of my suppressed .223's supersonic ammunition sounds like you are firing a .22 LR with "normal" ammunition.
My suppressed 9mm and 458 socom rifles are both very quite with SS ammo and both have much more energy, along with bullets designed to preform at thoes speeds, than the .223's.
I've loaded some 22 lr equivalent loads for .223. I used a 55 grain pulldown over a load of WC820, around 5.0 grains. I also tried some 45 gr. Beartooth cast bullets with a WC820 load and some with a charge of 2400 (about 9.0 grains). All loads were fairly accurate; jacketed rounds ran about 1"-1 1/2" at bout 35-40 yards in a scoped Handi-Rifle, and the cast were a slight bit better. Don't have a chrony so I can't give any velocities, but they were loads of fun, quiet, and no recoil...
Subsonic .223 on coyote is not a good idea. Especially if the coyote is an hybrid, they are on the big side. You want the animal to go down like a potato bag. I use soft point flat bottom Hornady 55 grains full load and even a coyote on steroid loaded with LSD would go down pretty fast if hit almost anywhere on the main body. Those bullets need some velocity to "expand"...I would say more to "explode" the damage they do is impressive and humane.
gamestalker: hehehehe for .270. I remember a friend shot one with a 30-06 headshot and the head completely vaporized. Isn't what you call killing a flea with a canon?
gamestalker: hehehehe for .270. I remember a friend shot one with a 30-06 headshot and the head completely vaporized. Isn't what you call killing a flea with a canon?
- Status
