JImbothefiveth wrote:
Very good argument, but it leaves just one question: Why not then, a double-barrel, or lightweight pump? Is it cost? Or, in the case of the pump, reciever length/simplicity?
Original post is about a dad with a baby in the house.
Based my experiences and observations going back some years allow me to share why I and mine came to some solutions as we did.
Investigate & Verify.
Keep in mind, I base this on real life, not "what if", instead "what did" or "what was" happening.
Now the fact of the matter is, most of the persons with a baby, child, even teenager in the house were females.
Our choice, what we did, if you will.
Single ladies, single moms, kids, elderly, and physically limited.
Yes, we assisted males, some single fellas were in situations, single dads, elderly, widowers, and of course physically limited.
Another fact is, young healthy males are so often full of piss, vinegar and testosterone, they don't want assistance. The mere fact they stand to pee and have a set of gonads means, they can rope , ride and shoot like John Wayne, drive like Mario Andretti, and Jackie Stewart, and bed women like Casaonova and Joe Namath.
-Less is More.
Simple is Good.
Go get 10 pounds of eggs, to represent a baby, a human life, and carry those eggs for just 2 hours.
Get 15 pounds of eggs and carry them on your hip for 1 hour.
Can you have that "baby" or "child" on your hip and shoot your home defense shotgun effectively?
I can, I honest to goodness can, as I have done so, and I have had others do so.
I can also run a Marlin 60, A Model 10 Revolver, 1911, Kel-Tec P-11...and some other examples.
Nylon 66 with the butt fed stock I miss a lot; and one reason has to do with what we are discussing.
Nylon 66 is safe with muzzle away from one loading,and unloading and not fingers or hands are near muzzle.
Marlin 60 is the next safest
These fit a price point as not everyone could back then, or can now afford a Browning Automatic .22 rifle.
I am not knocking the 10/22, still it does require loading that rotary magazine.
Yes this gun was bought at KMart for $39.95 and used for what we are talking about.
-Go get a sock and put it on your weak side hand up to your elbow.
Now run the gun you have for your home. I mean load the mags, the shotgun, handgun, whatever and run the gun.
Pretend you have and injured hand, wrist, arm.
Pretend you do not have some fingers, or hand, or arm below elbow.
Add a patch over your weak side eye, repeat the above.
I am being easy, as in real life some of these battered, beaten, sexually assaulted ladies had strong sides affected.
They had been knifed, shot, shoved into glass...etc.
You fight a person with a knife and both folks are going to get cut.
Have you ever cut yourself really bad and had difficulty shooting your guns?
Some were born without a arm below elbow.
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-I prefer dedicated .38spl revolvers as they are a low pressure round. This affects hearing.
Hearing of not only the teenager, single mom, firing the gun, also babies and kids.
You will not get your gear on, and have a RO ask "shooter ready?" when evil shows up.
Your start buzzer might the back kitchen door glass shattering with a baby in the sink getting a wash cloth bath, or being breast fed, or being given a bottle, or diapers changed, or on your hip.
Do you realize how fast one can shatter that glass and reach in and turn that turn-bolt? Fast.
Fire Code wants that turn bolt in most homes, as it fits local fire code.
Tip: After the new construction, and fire code passed, get that turnbolt replaced with a Key to work that deadbolt.
The key fob needs to be "stay-glow" or something easy to see in dark with light shined, in smoke in case of fire.
It can stay in the door if everyone is home and all seems fine. At night, it is removed, and it has a special spot every one knows where it is, handy, in the event to exit for fire.
If you are being stalked, have filed an RO (restraining order) or just live in a not so nice area, do not leave the key in the lock.
The glass shatters, that is your 'start buzzer' and you have a itty bitty time frame before that door comes off its hinges and is busted down.
Distance is your friend. Distance is not etched in granite as being 1.5 seconds and 21 steps.
Each person has a different "safe distance". This will change according to what you are doing at the time, health, and other factors.
See, you do the ADEE, and first thing is Avoid, which includes Prevent.
Just a simple thing such as replacing that turnbolt, with a key to work the deadbolt assists is avoiding and preventing trouble.
Evil may reach in, and "oh there is no turnbolt, lets go". Evil may not, and it does not take much time to bust a door in, still that "time" is critical for you to do what a prudent person would do in that situation.
Sorry, still you might not have time to run with that baby to a back bedroom.
You might have to deal with the problem right there with baby in arms and that is where the handgun on hip is best.
You might have time to SET the baby down if in a infant seat behind a washer, dryer, refrigerator, book shelf, sofa, recliner...and the handgun is then used with both hands.
Or
Access the Youth Single shot. This gun is loud indoors. I want choke in a shotgun. The one I use and recommend has a fixed modified choke. I like what this does with 20 pellets of #3 buckshot. I uses a nine in paper plate with ladies/students when we pattern one.
Get a paper plate, hold COM and look in the mirror.
What does your shotgun do with its load at the longest distance in your house on a nine inch paper plate.
I actually will then pattern these guns on a six inch dessert paper plate.
WE are responsible for every projectile fired, and if evil shows up, we need to be able to place shots effectively.
Hence the reasons for shooting lanes, and investigated and verified backstops.
Baby, another child, another adult sleeping , even a grandparent that lives in the house.
I myself prefer slugs, I have my reasons and mine differ from the types of persons we are discussing in this thread.
-Marlin 60.
Not as loud indoors.
It can be run one handed.
So lessons are shooting while in a recliner breast feeding, giving a bottle, or the baby just taking a nap or being held.
All 3 guns, the Med frame .38spl, the youth single shot, and Marlin 60 can be run from the sitting , even reclined position, one hand, or two hands.
Still keep in mind, I and mine had ladies beaten, battered, sexually assaulted, cut, shot, knifed, hurt, injured, and under NO RECOIL orders with detached retinas, shoulder, neck, back injuries.
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I and mine were doing this before current IDPA/IPSC and 3 Gun. Again we actually did these things with folks.
Both the folks I have shared we assisted , and just regular folks.
I and mine gave guns to these ladies, elderly and physically limited. WE had serious need 'right now'
Others run what they brung. It did not matter the gun, what mattered was Software, not hardware. Taking prudent steps in what is known as ADEE today.
You folks call it "training" , we called them "lessons".
You folks call them "stages" we called them "set ups".
You call me with a 19 year old that has been beaten, hurt, and in fear of life as she knows that RO is not going to do any good, especially if a fella has buddies.
And I have some old time things I do.
Give me 10 minutes and I will have her up to speed with a youth single shot shotgun in 20 gauge.
Give me 20 and she will up to speed with a Med frame dedicated .38spl revolver.
Unless she has a detached retina, or some other NO RECOIL order by a doctor or physical therapist.
Then I am going to go to a Marlin 60 and cuss the fact there is not affordable .22 handguns as there used to be.
This is where the S&W 317 of current production is nice, and the older S&W, Colt, Charter Arms, Ruger and even H&R, Iver Johnsons are nice.
I want to go to wheel gun first, if I can.
She might hurt and with cut hands and fingers have problems loading a magazine, or racking a slide, with a hand all bandaged up.
Next, I want the most simple .22 semi auto. Fixed sights, 4" barrel.
Ruger Standard, Ruger MKI, MKII.
Buckmark ( oh phooey, the two real simple ones, forget names)
Hi-Standard Duramatic.
S&W 422/622
I am not wanting to hand some gal in a serious situation a Bulls-Eye or Hunting set up .22 semi that is heavy, with optics, or even adjustable sights.
I want simple , simple , simple.
She can stick the simple 4" one in her back pocket , or house robe pocket or whatever when she is up and about the house.
It is "right there" at hand, if need.
I am going to bring a compressed air horn.
WE did not have cell phones back in the day, we did have CB and Hamm Radio.
Practiced plans, ones actually practiced. Now folks can snub noses up at old technology, still the fact remains, when the power is out, and cell phone coverage is compromised with emergency needs getting priority , such as during hurricane , tornado, and other disasters, Evil will take advantage of this.
Even just a bad thunderstorm, the power is out and Cops dealing with alarms going off, is a great opportunity for Evil to strike. That stalker, ex boyfriend, the drunk brother wanting money for dope and his friends...etc.
The single shot is not a lot of money brand new today. The fact is, as Clint Smith shares, is shotguns are less monies than rifles.
We used to get good used Police Trade in revolvers like the Model 10 for just $125.
Marlins were $39.95 brand new ,and folks would shoot a lot with the less expensive ammo.
Marlin needs to make a 9mm Marlin 60. The old Camp Carbine was a neat home gun in 9mm. Affordable ammo meant again more trigger time.
Beretta CX Storm in 9mm I want to shoot sometime. I know a number of folks on this forum that have them, for home use. Including the 80 year old mother of one.
Still look at the price.
For a person in need, the money is just not there.
The youth single shot is 36 inches total length, the CX4 adjusts out to 31.5 inches.
The Marlin 60 is what? I forget and don't have one handy to measure.
You folks asked, some in PMs my thoughts about OP, and you have it.
There was No Internet back when, no 911 either.
This is what I and mind DID, and it is proven.
Another gun, is the tip up Beretta.
Again, some of these folks are hurt, and some are physically limited.
WE had WWI, WWII, Korean Vets, later Vietnam Vets with amputations.
Polio Victims also had physical limitations.
Since, add the Vets from Desert Storm , other Operations in the Middle East and Afghanistan.
Do not make fun of a Marine with NO RECOIL orders using a Remington 1100 in .410 and Ruger .22 semi auto pistol.
Because I will respectfully ask another Marine, or any other Branch of Service , to have first dibbs taking a hickory axe handle to you.
I am pretty sure they will back me up, in saying you cut yourself shaving , or fell down the stairs, or both.
Yes, even small caliber small Berettas in .22 lr, and 25 ACP were used, and still are.
NO RECOIL orders, and the fact there was always a gun on person, concealed.
The .380 is a dream to shoot! Scary accurate and just good looking.
Still I know of a lady, born without a arm below her elbow. She can run a 1911, and likes her K frames and Detective Specials.
She is a show off with her Beretta Tip up guns from .22 short, (Minx) .22 lr (Bobcat) , 25 ACP (Bobcat and Jetfire)
She has the Tomcat (32ACP) and I do mean she is that good. Her favorite is the larger .380.
First, do no harm.
You get the premise safe, the person safe and you do what you gotta do right now. Evil does not wait.
This is what I did and still do.
I did a walk through of home, or business, and accessed. I do so from a criminal perspective.
Then suggestions are made, things changed to make safer.
We really did arrange a indoor or outdoor "shoot house" to replicate a home or business.
Folks run what they brung.
Software, not hardware.
If all that widow woman had was a single shot .410, well that is what she used.
If she shot some handguns and found one that fit her, then she might put a "hardware store" revolver on Lay-a-way.
Heck most times a collection was taken up and she was assisted in getting this gun.
It stayed in her apron, always.
She has a right to be safe, dote over her grand kid, even neighbor kids that come to help out with chores.
Still practiced plans and she, the kids and everyone knew what to do.
Sure she fussed about a pc of furniture over "there" , instead of "here", still that furniture was to protect a grandkid sleeping, or heck even playing in a room if evil showed up.
I am still not sure if Internet is helping or hindering folks stay safe sometimes...
