Suddenly cornered by unarmed person?

[Fun2Shoot]

I can not carry where I work.......Hope it never happens.

You could use more self-defense tools in your arsenal. Check these out. You don't need to be Rambo to give some dirtbag a serious attitude adjustment. You just need the will not to be a victim. Those collapsible batons fit in a large pocket or purse. Whip it out and start smashing. Practice on an old coat, hung up and filled with towels. Imagine that it is some loser that you encountered in your past.

http://www.bushipower.com/page/BS/PROD/EB/A6544

Don't over look tactical "flash lights" They emit a beam of light that is bright enough to temporarily blind an attacker ( in low light or dark) You want to have a tac light with at least 100 lumens of brightness. I flashed myself with my tac light and it is truly blinding. It will give you time to run or start you next attack move on the perp.

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/362/sesent/00

Using the blinding light and/or the baton in conjuction will give you a chance to fight your way to safety.

 

[AnthonyRSS]

I have met 130lb guys that could whip most other guys. I have whipped guys that have 50lbs on me. (In training, of course) I don't believe in "disparity of force". A 300 pound man can be knifed just as dead by a 100 pounder, and he may never see it coming. I have been in Muay Thai, brazilian Jujitsu, TaeKwonDo, and other martial arts, and I do not want to fight anybody on the street. You just never know.

You cannot wait until somebody hits you to react.

You can NEVER know if somebody is unarmed unless they are buck nekked.

 

[Fun2Shoot]

What precisely in the above described scenario has led you to believe you are about to face strangulation or a beating?

The major city that I live by has a population that one of every eight men between 21 and 39 is an ex con.

I don't mean to be presumptive, but I'll bet that this discussion is largely theoretical to you. It is not theory to me. As I stated in an earlier post, I've been there, done that in the high crime hoods. You don't wait to discuss why the perp is a raging sociopath and try to console them with words. They are closer to animals and must be dealt with as such. I know this from first-hand experience.

The aforementioned perps beat, rape and strangle senior citizen women on a daily basis around the USA. They are on the prowl and if you appear to have what they want and they have opportunity, you are now in their sights.

No time to talk. You must react quickly or your face is about to look like ground beef in very short order and if that is all that happens to you, you will be lucky.

Have you ever been the victim of an attack? I am not trying to be provocative or rude, but having you butt kicked by a perfect stranger will change your world view of criminals in very short order.

 

[odysseus]

You can NEVER know if somebody is unarmed unless they are buck nekked.

...I am still armed when buck nekked.

Anyway, I agree with a lot said here. Have tools with you, and in a lot of these situations here sounds like you certainly should be in condition yellow\orange. Also careful of what you possess, in some states it is a felony to carry around a collapsible baton (like an ASP).

I agree with the one hand folder knife, it's a great all around tool and can help you defend yourself readibly. I have owned Spyerco's since I was a teenager. Bottomline if trouble is coming for you expect it to be bad and yes, you can't be expected to analyze it from the start, but only react. Trust me from having personal experience on one thing, being shot at by a thug while you can do nothing about it but run, defines the word "panic".

 

[Legionnaire]

...I am still armed when buck nekked.

Hence my sig line!

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

You do carry a non-lethal weapon in addition to your gun, right? An Asp, or some OC spray, or something like that? (A knife does NOT qualify. A knife is a deadly weapon, just like your gun. If you use it against an unarmed man you're just as likely to go to jail as if you'd used a gun.)

If nothing else, MOVE. Go somewhere. Anywhere. Don't remain in the same spot you were in when he first came at you. There's a reason he picked that specific place to attack you. It's probably advantegeous somehow, advantageous to him. So don't be there. Make him start reacting to you, instead of the other way around.

 

[AnthonyRSS]

Is an Asp not a deadly weapon? How many here can use them as a pain-compliance tool, and not just to bash someone over the head with?

I know I can't.

 

[yonderway]

How do we know the guys not just having a fight with his wife on the cell phone?

It's commonplace anymore to see someone seemingly talking to themselves, and then when you get a view of the other side of their face, you see the earbud and it adds up. Personally I think they look like idiots. But it's nothing to shoot a person over.

If it were me, I'd probably try to cross the street immediately. Make eye contact with the guy when doing so, so he knows you're aware of him. Be aloof but not paranoid.

If person starts crossing the street to intercept, I can't really say what I'd do but the threat level jumps up at that point.

 

[yonderway]

The major city that I live by has a population that one of every eight men between 21 and 39 is an ex con.

So in other words, there is a 7 in 8 chance that this person means you no harm.

I've been mugged, at knifepoint, and it's pretty traumatic. I do have CCW and I do respect the power of the tool that I am carrying to protect myself with. I respect that the choices I must make when carrying it have very permanant consequences affecting a lot more than just me and the guy on the other end of it. If I'm going to rob some little kids, maybe like my own kids, of their daddy... it better be because their daddy is about to make my own kids fatherless. There has to be a clear and present danger.

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Is an Asp not a deadly weapon? How many here can use them as a pain-compliance tool, and not just to bash someone over the head with?

I know I can't.

Cops carry batons all the time, specifically because they're effective non-lethal weapons.

If you clock someone in the head with an Asp you can probably cause death. But if you use it against his arms, chest or legs, it's highly unlikely to prove fatal.

You don't need to know any specialized martial arts techniqques to use an Asp as a non-lethal weapon. Just swing for his hips or knees. No special pain-compliance moves needed.

Legally, it all depends upon how you use it. But as long as it doesn't look like you were trying to cave his skull in, an Asp is usually not lethal force. (At least, not in these parts. Some states/cities have some pretty irrational views on self defense, and all bets are off in those kinds of places.)

 

[AnthonyRSS]

How do we know the guys not just having a fight with his wife on the cell phone?


I thought from the first post that the guy was closing in fast and cussing at you.

Nobody on here wants to hurt someone for no reason. I believe that most people on this board would make the right decision if put in the circumstance. I pray that no one here will be put in that position, but that if they are, they prevail.

 

[bigun15]

Personally, I'd let him do his full-on-sprint at me until he gets to about 10 ft. out. Then you army roll to the side. Most likely, he will pass you and (if he's actually trying to attack you, not just running from someone) turn around and come back for you. That should give you a little time to whip out your handy dandy CCW and put a few rounds into the ground (this was in the country, with no neighbors right?) to show you mean business. That in itself should get rid of an unarmed person.

 

[Fun2Shoot]

.... As you're heading to your car, the same character as above comes out from behind some trees and bears down on you, they're between you and your vehicle, and are approaching quickly with no weapons.

Just remember this, if you are, at this point, "in fear for your life" and you produce a lethal weapon to defend yourself, tell them to stop (if possible), but the "unarmed" person continues to approach you in a direct and hostile fashion, that perp will certainly be aiming to take your weapon from you and harm you even more. That is, they are intent on making you unarmed while they arm themselves with your weapon.

You are now justified to use lethal force or suffer the consequences of trying to overthink/hesitate yourself into the ER or morgue.

 

[Fun2Shoot]

So in other words, there is a 7 in 8 chance that this person means you no harm.

That would be an assumption. Not wise to operate on assumptions.

My statistic means that this major city has a very large population with a demonstrated disregard for the law. Also remember that a typical criminal commits dozens of crimes before being arrested even once and may be arrested many more times and go through the court system several times before they are convicted and sentenced to jail one time.

If you have to take out a perp with lethal force and that perp has fathered children, you are probably doing a good service for those kids. Dirtbag violent fathers are a dime-a-dozen and they inflict the same fear, rage and violence on their own offspring.

 

[cz75bdneos22]

facing the opponent and moving to the side...move away from him towards cover...in case that is not an option, run towards open spaces in hopes of outrunning/evading him...if inevitability of combat is imminent, then run what you've brung until one of two happens...he is not a threat anylonger or you have been killed...the game is on and there is no referee to call the shots...be the weapon, think about the blunt and sharp end, fear will be your ally and above all, do not forget your battle cry...

 

[anthillsinrome]

I carry a Benchmade mini-griptillian as an EDC, but I dont think Id resort to it in many self-defense situations. An asp seems more reasonable, less lethal, easier to be effective with.

 

[g2]

A guy is trying to get through a door, you just happened to come out of, he knows is going to lock when it closes. He is pissed off that he missed catching the door. So he throws a few colorful words around. And for that he’s going to be barked at, bludgeoned with an ashtray, stabbed and maybe shot. As it was said earlier take a 90 degree from his course. If he changes direction to follow, well then the door wasn’t the target. Then we can start the woofing etc.

Merry Christmas

 

[hso]

You don't need to know any specialized martial arts techniqques to use an Asp as a non-lethal weapon.

Legally, it all depends upon how you use it. But as long as it doesn't look like you were trying to cave his skull in, an Asp is usually not lethal force.

Quite true on both counts

Just swing for his hips or knees.

This doesn't fit the training I received if you're dealing with someone intent on harming you. It is essential that you receive the minimally mandated training with an ASP or any other baton to know how use it effectively and legally. The short form is, don't swing for the head, neck or face. Everything else is open. You swing for the muscle bellys where the nerves are clustered if you want compliance. But compliance isn't our goal. We need to disarm/disable our attacker. The weapon arms are the primary targets. Don't try to hit the hand as it's too small and mobile a target. Swing for impact to the forearm and upper arm. Snap the baton and follow through the swing bringing it back to the ready position at 1 or 2. Don't pull your shot and stop part of the way through the swing. If you can get a good enough hit in you may be able to break the arm or shock it enough to cause the arm to be temporarily useless. Remember that the closer to the torso you strike the easier it is to hit the target. If you happen to miss the shoulder and break the collar bone you'll get good results also.

In TN you must be certified to carry any colapsable baton and would expect the same in many states, but can't tell you which. The advantage in learning to use a baton is that it allows you to use similar impact weapons, even improvised ones, to better effect.

 

[BullfrogKen]

That would be an assumption. Not wise to operate on assumptions.

The same justification can be said for taking the actions thus far presented.

My statistic means that this major city has a very large population with a demonstrated disregard for the law.

Every city has a criminal population. The observation that criminals mingle amongst us has no direct bearing on the presented scenario, nor does it by itself provide justifications for one's actions. We are judged on the specifics of an encounter, not what occurred in the past. The argument that you took an action today because of past recurring injustices, or even hostile acts immediately preceding your response, is an excuse reserved for those without adequate, relevant justification. Observe that the law holds us accoutantable for each blow inflicted in a fight indendent of itself, and while we may be justified for the first 5 rounds fired, the 6th may not have been, and can be sufficient to warrant a different legal outcome of an otherwise defensible response.

If you have to take out a perp with lethal force and that perp has fathered children, you are probably doing a good service for those kids. Dirtbag violent fathers are a dime-a-dozen and they inflict the same fear, rage and violence on their own offspring.

You will not be considered as having provided a needed service to the community for taking a life. The same statistics you cite make it just as likely you may see close relatives of convicted criminals sit in judgment over you. Rest assured many consider themselves and their family members as a victimized, downtrodden segment of society and will not view your actions as righteously as you. Jury nullification occurs frequently even in the face of uncontroversial evidence.

I don't mean to be presumptive, but I'll bet that this discussion is largely theoretical to you. Have you ever been the victim of an attack?

As you said, it is not wise make assumptions. Neither my, nor your experiences are germane to the specifics of the discussion.


The issue under discussion is what shall one do when confronted with a man we have concluded at the immediate moment is not presenting a weapon, and is operating under unannounced intentions. Advancing from across a parking lot and cursing at an individual may suggest an imminent fight, but it isn't sufficient enough to make that assumption conclusive. The pabulum added to the scenario deflects addressing the specific dilemma, serving as a convenient excuse to elevate the encounter to a use of force. These are assumptions.

Discussions of this nature are theoretical. Just as are the ones instructors initiate that take place in a training environment. They serve to illustrate a point, and to discuss the principles that we must use to make complex decisions. We could introduce specific cases that comprise case law. Many do. However by focusing exclusively on actualities, successful outcomes cause many to conclude that the action taken previously is "the answer to the exam". The matter at hand becomes lost, and the participants are erroneously led to believe since that those actions worked for that individual, they will work for us all.

As Yonderway suggests,

How do we know the guys not just having a fight with his wife on the cell phone?

And as Anthony reminds us,

I thought from the first post that the guy was closing in fast and cussing at you.

We don't have enough information yet to decide what his intentions are. He may have just had his car sideswiped in the lot and someone pointed to you as the offender.

Claims to the impression you were placed in fear for your life usually requires you articulate specific acts or statements to support such claims. Unless we are modifying the scenario to include we are operating under some disparity of force, or have other considerations to blur the issue, the scenario as presented does not contain evidence to support those articulations. The point this scenario illustrates is in the grey area of where you strongly suspect an imminent fight, but cannot articulate sufficient substantiation, practitioners must incorporate methods to swiftly gather the necessary information to support your assumption. The actions you take after that resolution are separate from the conclusion and specific to each of us as individuals.

Presidents and nations might be able to operate under the doctrine of pre-emptive war. We are generally not extended the same license.

 

[BullfrogKen]

A guy is trying to get through a door, you just happened to come out of, he knows is going to lock when it closes. He is pissed off that he missed catching the door. So he throws a few colorful words around. And for that he’s going to be barked at, bludgeoned with an ashtray, stabbed and maybe shot.

Dammit . . . missed the door. Excellent observation. I know I've run towards a door a time or two in my life that opens from the inside only and swore when I didn't make it there in time.

 

[Fun2Shoot]

I don't mean to be presumptive, but I'll bet that this discussion is largely theoretical to you. Have you ever been the victim of an attack?

Mr. Bullfrog's response:

As you said, it is not wise make assumptions. Neither my, nor your experiences are germane to the specifics of the discussion.

Where do I start on this one? All responsive actions are based on our past experiences. That is the knowledge base that is the paradigm to evaluate the present situation.

To say that our past experiences are not germane to present action defies logic to the extent that I will just say this with all due respect: Real life survival must happen quickly and instinctively. Your hesitation may get you seriously injured or killed.

If I can give you one piece of advice in all seriousness; your biggest flaw and potentially fatal flaw, is that the seconds you waste trying to microscopically dissect a fast unfolding threat will be your undoing. Real life assaults do not occur in classrooms where rubber knives and red plastic guns are used. You need to get aggressive and get aggressive quick.

I will conclude with this. Based on my academic knowledge of criminal sociology and my real street experience in high crime venues, I have total confidence in the appropriateness of my statements.

It will all be over in under thirty seconds. Don't let your loved ones suffer from your faint heartedness. Take fast action and live another day BullfrogKen.

 

[GoBrush]

HSO Quote:

I would recommend instantly "woofing". This involves a hyper agressive verbal assault with a combative body posture to intimidate your assailant. You won't just stand your ground you'll advance on them stealing the momentum.


HSO:
This is a bad move tactically. In "Most" combat senerios distance is your friend. Closing that distance yourself is a bad call in this situation.

The more distance between you and your attacker the higher chance you have to avoid injury or death.

 

[Fun2Shoot]

Author Unknown

Sidebar for GoBrush. Here's the author of your signature line:

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away.

Barry Goldwater (1909 -1998 )

http://www.quotationspage.com/search.php3?homesearch=goldwater&startsearch=Search

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/may98/goldwater30.htm

 

[Hook686]

This is a major problem for a disabled person ...

... being confronted by a very real possible attacker. I had major neurological surgery that has left me with the potential of a blow to the head paralyzing me, or even killing me. The approching person has not presented himself as directing his anger directly at me, as yet. I walk and move quite slowly with a walking stick. What do you suggest for me is this type scenario ?

 

[bratch]

Regarding Asps.

There is an old saying

"Steel seeks flesh, wood seeks bone"