Suggestions please on a proposed Mosin project I would like to maybe consider

[jeremywills]

Considering a second Mosin, probably a beat one for a project rifle with a scout mounted scope and adding a muzzle brake. I doubt Ill swap out the stock for the ATI synthetic one but who knows. I wouldn't mind one with some dings so I can try my hand at a refinish job. I do like the Carbine length, really going to try and find a m38 as the Bayo will probably just be in the way on what I have in mind and that way it doesn't need to be removed or worried about.

Need advice. What is a good Long Eye Relief scope to mount midway on a Mosin. Also, of the known mounts out there, are there any that just totally suck and should be steered clear of or all of them seem to be ok?

Muzzle Brake? Worth the effort? I am not totally turned off by the recoil of that M44 I just bought, but if it can be tamed a bit, I would be interested in trying it, unless some can chime in and say they are not worth the time wasted on it. Anyone have some insight to them?

Finally, a bipod. Again any suggestions appreciated.

Mainly would like to try and create a scout style rifle. I think it would be a fun thing to do with a less than perfect cosmetically Mosin if I can find one with a decent bore and just needing some exterior TLC. Anyone know of a good place to inquire about a Mosin of this condition. The M44 I bought is just too nice, I want to leave it be as is and rework one that hasn't been either rearsenaled and or just hasn't been treated nice since the rearsenaling. I saw a converted m44 a few weeks back at Cabela's in Buda TX that had a mid mount weaver rail mount and a poor job of someone cutting off the bayo lug and front sights, they just spray painted it black instead of trying to reblue the metal and it just looked bad, plus the bore wasn't anything to be desired, so I passed on it, also the price was a turn off, but I guess they were considering the mount being on it and all, for me not worth 139 bucks with a pretty bad bore, surely I can do better and have the satisfaction of doing it myself.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Cheers
Jeremy

 

[SpookyPistolero]

I built one off of a crappy M38 my dad had, that turned out to be my favorite rifle. I removed the rear sight and it's base, and then drilled and tapped for what I believe was a mini-14 weaver mount. Very, very low to the bore compared to an aftermarket accessories. Turning down the bolt handle made all the difference though. It's quick and smooth, and a bit less ergonomic and speedy when standard. I chopped my front end, too, as the crown was busted up, and recrowned it. Left it alone, other than a foam cheek pad, beyond that.

Ditch the bipod idea. I tried many ideas, all were bad. Unless it's like the actual Steyr Scout, the bipod will tick you off in no time. Scout rifles are meant to be fast-handling, good for quick shouldering and snap shooting. The bipod negates that. Unless it's for bench shooting, in which case trying to build up a scout type setup is not advantageous.

I thought about a muzzle brake and even more about a flashhider, but never got around to doing either. It shot well enough without them and the recoil was always pretty comfortable for me. Hunt around brownell's, though, for a large enough muzzle brake. If you can't find one you might have to have the end of the bore lathed down a bit before threading, though I'm not entirely sure if there are any pressure issues to consider there.

My scope for the project, in keeping with a 'cheap scout', was simply a $50 pistol scope I got in a magazine. It always worked just fine, and through a few backpacking trips.

If you can live without iron sight backups, the mosin makes a very good scout platform to play with. Have fun.

 

[jeremywills]

cool, this is what i was thinking about the bipod thing, probably not worth the effort, would be nice if someone did come up with an aftermarket stock that had the built in styer like bipod, wonder why no one else has jumped on the idea unless styer has some patent or something like legally preventing it

so will any pistol scope work? I want a good one, I know little to nothing about optics so I dont want a crap one, but I cant spend a mint either on it

 

[Roudy]

Muzzle Brake

I've only shot one rifle with a muzzle brake in my life. My son has a bushmaster style rifle in .308 and it came with a muzzle brake. It certainly reduces the recoil of the rifle but significantly increases the noise level when you fire the rifle. I am not sensative to recoil, but the noise did bother me even though I had ear plugs well inserted in my ears.

Personally I would not add the muzzle brake because of the noise....BTW it also kicks up a lot of material around the muzzle too.

You might look on line and find a nice M44 that has been re-finished by one of the arsenals, usually inexpensive and in like new condition.

Couple ways to go on the stock, you can get an after market fiberglass stock http://www.gunaccessories.com/ati/SyntheticStocks/index.asp or as I did on an SKS with really yoogly wood....paint it flat black!

I like the idea of mounting a scope "Scout Style", good call SpookyPistolero.

 

[SpookyPistolero]

I think that the idea of the built in bipod is too complicated to effectively produce compared to the relatively limited amount of consumer interest it would produce. The idea I had about putting together a stock with a built in bipod was to make the legs of the bipod pull forward from the inside (or at least on rails underneath) the forearm of the stock. The legs would have balls or hooks on the rear end (the end that stays inside the stock) that fall into a joint at the end of the forearm of the stock. At that joint they are fully extended, and able to fold downward and slightly outward. To make the stay extended in that position the end inside the stock would have to have somekind of latch that snapped into place within the recess you made for the ball or hook. This would make it subject to wear. Another drawback is it would be slow to put into action. Probably a big increase in weight out front would occur, too.

Another way to make the 'joint' for the ball-end to pop into, is to allow there to be vertical travel of the legs once they are fully lowered. This would lock more solidly. Also, you could make some kind of stationary 'clips' that the lowered and extended legs could pop into.

It's fairly complicated (though I'm quite certain someone could come up with a less complicated version) so I ditched it, since I would rather just throw down my backpack as a rest if I feel like going prone. It only takes a second to remove a pack and toss it down, but the bipod extension would take several and would probably be flimsy.

Anyway, I didn't feel like it was worth it. Might make a fun project though.

I think the scope I used was this one:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=70786

I'm not positive, but when hunting for scope options I recall finding that you either have to go cheap with something like that, or go all out with a real-deal Leupold scout scope, which are around $250 (not really fitting on top of a jimmied mosin).

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-25x28mm-m8-ier-scout-rifle-scope.html

Like I said, mine had held up fine, but if it fails you're that much wiser for the 'low, low cost' of $35.

 

[Cosmoline]

Why are you trying to hack and slash your way through the project. A chopped down Mosin carbine, even with a muzzle brake, is going to make a ton of noise and recoil. Why don't you take a more rational, effective approach and put a Darrell's mount on a full length Finn or good 91/30 and mount a pistol scope on it? I did that with a TIkka 91/30 and I've been very happy. No hacking or slashing needed, and it shoots MOA. Recoil isn't bad and there's far less blast and flash than with a carbine length rifle.



So instead of a hacked-up POS that shoots pieplates, makes a huge amount of noise and looks like hell, you get a really classy looking rifle that shoots tacks as sweet as fireweed honey.

If you are really wedded to the idea of a SHORT scout rifle, get a .308 NOT a 7.62x54R. The 54R is designed to be fired out of a long barrel. The .308 does a lot better out of the short ones and doesn't have nearly as much flame or noise. You can get one of those new Savage rifles, mount a scout base on it and have a very nice modern .308 scout rifle for the same $$ as trying to hack up an M-38, and in the end you'll find it's worth more than when you started. You know how many hacked up Mosins languish on the market now? Just don't go down that road.

 

[SpookyPistolero]

I hate to haunt a thread (hehe, what's my name?) but I wanted to second what Cosmoline has added. The reason that I did actual metal work on my rifle was because it was especially beaten down, due to apparently quite rough use by a previous idiot. It was an extreme, and any mosin you get is almost certainly very serviceable 'as-is', the extra work is just that, extra.

Were I in your shoes, or in my own doing it again on a decent rifle, I'd buy a whole bolt replacement with a handle that's already turned down (that way you don't need to mess the original) and the lowest 'no-gunsmithing' rear-sight leaf replacement mount that you can find. They were the only two factors that really made an impact on the overall fit and function to me. The whole thing is likely to cost less that $140, with the mount, scope and bolt. And you can always ditch the new bolt if you like it as it is.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

JW: Don't buy an LER scope before you come up to Austin!

I've got a Bushnell 1.5x LER scope I can let go cheap.

That said, there seem to be a variety of folks who sell no-gunsmithing MN scope mounts, both traditional and scout. The one from www.gunaccessories.com comes with a mount and a turned-down bolt for $42, but it's a rear scope, not scout.

(Checks archive) Darrel's seems to get some good reviews for $65: http://p102.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm85.showMessage?topicID=133.topic Like the one Cosmoline has (nice rifle Cosmo).

Looks like you have some Googling and THR-searching ahead of you. I know quite a few folks have messed around with Nagant scopings.

Ditto Cosmoline's recc to find a cheap 91/30 for your project.

Hope to see you and your crew in January, -MV

 

[rockstar.esq]

I've got a Bushnell 1.5x LER scope I can let go cheap.

That said, there seem to be a variety of folks who sell no-gunsmithing MN scope mounts, both traditional and scout. The one from www.gunaccessories.com comes with a mount and a turned-down bolt for $42, but it's a rear scope, not scout.

(Checks archive) Darrel's seems to get some good reviews for $65: http://p102.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm85.showMessage?topicID=133.topic Like the one Cosmoline has (nice rifle Cosmo).

Looks like you have some Googling and THR-searching ahead of you. I know quite a few folks have messed around with Nagant scopings.

Ditto Cosmoline's recc to find a cheap 91/30 for your project.

Hope to see you and your crew in January, -MV

EER or pistol scopes have their parallax set for 50yds and they are not intended for IER (Intermediate Eye Relief) applications. I'm not saying they don't work but I am saying that I found a great IER at Makarov.com for under $70.00 that is more in keeping with the intent of the rifle. Those rear sight conversion mounts work fine BUT the longer non-B-Square ones are not made very well. I find that the ATI stock made the rifle MUCH more fun to shoot, however it really excelled with the iron sights. I find that I can't achieve any sort of cheekweld with the scout scope being mounted so high. I have an M44 and the bayonet lug is a real pita as far a snagging on stuff. Keep in mind that the scout scope's weight will significantly affect the balance of the rifle. I find that my left hand tracks better now than before. Sort of like a shotgun I guess. I really like these rifles for their quick action and great value . I do wish that I could afford to have the barrel drilled and tapped for the scope as the lower profile would have been awesome.

P.S. I shoot mine with a Bi-pod all the time. Not being a "Scout" I'm able to just plink at yonder targets imagining that I'm really shooting a .50BMG! If you close your eyes when one goes off, it's not too much of a leap...

 

[Cosmoline]

at Makarov.com for under $70.00 that is more in keeping with the intent of the rifle.

If you can afford a GOOD IER scope, by all means get it. But I'm a firm believer it avoiding cheap optics of any kind if you plan on using the rifle for more than just plinking. A scope for a hunting rifle should be at least medium quality such as Burris or Leopold. I use a Burris 2x handgun scope set on medium height rings close to the receiver. It works fine and while not as fancy as some optics it is tough and I have a lot of confidence in it. I don't know how many falls the chicom scopes could take.

. Those rear sight conversion mounts work fine BUT the longer non-B-Square ones are not made very well.

In my experience with them, B-Square does not make very good mounts. Darrell's, esp. his M-39 mount, are a more carefully machined. I have not heard good things about the humpback ATI stock, and if that's what you're using I'm not surprised you're having balance and weld issues.

If you want to rig up your Mosin for scoped hunting I would again STRONGLY advise, based on many years screwing around with Mosins, that you use a simple, strong no-drill scout mount with a simple, good quality scope. You really don't need to go drilling holes in the thing.

It's also totally pointless to bend the bolt with a scout mount. The rifle works great without bending the bolt over.

If what you really want is a stanard American hunting rifle, go get one of the inexpensive Savage package deals. They're great and will work well.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

@rockstar

Interesting point on parallex; I must admit that I know very little about optics. Not sure if I don't understand optics because I'm an iron-sights man, or vice versa.

That said, I believe the 1.5x scope I have kicking around was intended for shotgun use. Is there some way I can figure out whether it's a pistol or long-gun scope, what its parallex is, etc? I'd check the markings against the Burris catalog, but I won't be around said scope until after the holidays.

-MV

 

[Cosmoline]

A Burris 1.5 EER handgun scope is probably what you have. Yours will work fine. No the paralax isn't at 150 but your zero shouldn't really be out that far anyway with a 1.5 on a Mosin. Just move it back and forth on the mount once it's set up while holding the rifle as you're used to and you'll find a sweet spot. Get some flip-up lens protectors for it to complete the package. Your field of view is limited with the handgun scope. That's the big tradeoff with EER, but then again you can shoot it with both eyes open--giving you a very wide field of view indeed.

 

[jeremywills]

good ideas and suggestions guys, really appreciate it

saw that botched job at cabela's and just got the gears clicking, the m44 I just bought is just too damn nice the way it is, being a 43 with very few rearsenal marks and a beautiful bore Im wondering if it really didnt see much of anything at all in its 60 plus years of life, just sat for a short time during the end of the war, and just got rearsenaled with all the rest and was stockpiled for me to acquire later

Ok, one can wish, this is why I wanted a beat up abused one that someone has not taken such good care of, yes it would not be restoring it to its original glory but in a way like a tribute to it, sure, if I wanted a normal rifle Ill just head over to wally world or academy, but after finally getting this first mosin, Im hooked. I thought it would be a way to pay tribute to one of the unfortunate neglected ones and revive it to life again, its not really a want of a hunting rifle, or a plinker or anything, but really just a project Im considering because I have never in my life restored anything like that and it was more of an FYI kind of thing. Thought it might be fun, something to be proud of. Personally, I am a carbine kind of guy, I like short barreled weapons, obsessed actually, if I wrote down my true wish list just about everything on it involves lots of ATF paperwork but these carbine length mosins will work just fine. I happen to like the the noise actually. Recoil I could appreciate reduced a bit. At the cost of them if a 91/30 ever winds up at my place I wont mind it either. Im thinking these are not going to be out there in dealer land in volume forever and its probably best not to wait too long on getting another one or two.

BTW, that is a beautiful one you have there sir. Very nice.

Thanks again, Im definately keeping my mind open to all options.

Cheers
Jeremy

 

[thereisnospoon]

Moison Scout

Here's mine...it is for sale on the rifle section. NOt becuse I don't like it, I was just looking for project money for my .50 cal...

 

[jeremywills]

you did that yourself?

very impressive, not too excited about the stock, i happen to like the mosin stock as is, what im most interested in is the mount, is that something you did homebrew and or something you can purchase have installed etc...

also just an fyi, is that a replacement barrel or did you grind off the sights etc...

great looking rifle though

 

[steelhead]

I do agree with much of what Cosmoline has said and it is good advice. However, I have taken mule and blacktail deer out to 150 yards (most shots are under 100), with the following setup, and don't find the downsides to be too excessive or a hindrance. It works very well in the scrub pines and I don't try to shoot beyond my limitations. To top it off, I'm also left handed .

M38 with no permanent alterations
ATI Stock
D's scope mount
Burris 2x handgun scope
Home rolled 150gr Hornady A-Max

 

[thereisnospoon]

Not my work...

you did that yourself?

very impressive, not too excited about the stock, i happen to like the mosin stock as is, what im most interested in is the mount, is that something you did homebrew and or something you can purchase have installed etc...

also just an fyi, is that a replacement barrel or did you grind off the sights etc...

great looking rifle though

Sadly, no, I did not do this one. I took it in on trade at the last gun show. It has been DuraCoated in "Parkerized" color. Whoever did this project took their time and did it right. I shot it at 50 meters and was very impressed with the results.

The scope mount is acraglassed or JB welded to the barrel, but done very well. Interestingly enough, the stock is what cought my eye...

 

[Cosmoline]

Steelhead--that's a very nice setup and a good example. Popping the rifle into a sporter stock as you did is another option rather than hacking the original stock. My lefty friends have found the straight, stubby mosin bolt to be a lot easier to deal with than traditional bent bolts. They can reach around and cycle the bolt with their off hand. Indeed I do that myself while the rifle is rested. The Mosin cycles very well from the left.

 

[jeremywills]

oooooh !!!! drooling I like that steelhead, thats a nice looking one too

anyhow, you guys have given me much food for thought, very appreciated

now I just need to start looking for another rifle and once I have one then I can go from there, I might deviate from my initial thought process now that you guys have shown me a few things, thanks a bunch folks

cheers all
J

 

[dm1333]

Nice job Steelhead

My M38 is going to look like that except the scope will be black. I also agree with Cosmoline on the straight bolt for lefties. My No. 4 Mk1 is easy to cycle and the Mosin is almost as nice. You guys should check out specialinterestarms.com. Once my Glock and M38 projects are done I'm going to be sending a beater Enfield to them for some work. Every Enfield that I have checked out in the last month had too nice of a bore to use, I may just buy another one and send in the one I have now. That way I can handload for 3 different rifles with the same diameter bullets.