Suppressed for HD

[psyopspec]

How many here are practicing attorneys? Of those, how many are criminal defense lawyers that have any experience in representing a client that fired in self defense during a home invasion?

Didn't claim to be, I just answered the OP's question. The legal ramifications of what he chooses to do are his issue to deal with, and only his.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

What is a firearm (auto-loading handgun) that I could get suppressed that would be effective for home defense?

Preferences:
Full size handgun.
9mm
Cheap
Long suppressor life

Requirements:
(relatively) Quiet
Reasonable cost

I'm open to suggestions.

Everything down to "Reasonable Cost" is easy. Once you own your selected 9mm pistol you are going to pay something like $650 for the suppressor then around $150 for a barrel or a custom threading job. Add to this the $200 suppressor registration fee. This all adds up to around $1000 and you could pay much more. Is it really worth $1000 to fancy up a cheap pistol that may be unreliable?

 

[rcmodel]

And will be impounded as evidence if you ever do use it in a SD shooting.

For how long?
Until they decide to give it back too you, thats when.

rcmodel

 

[30mag]

Seriously, everytime I post I get more legal advice...
I would appriciate some advice on a gun/suppressor combo. Especially one someone has had good experiences with it. Quiet is important.

If y'all are worried about me being held on trial, then you may take comort that I live in Texas.
Some of y'all may have heard this story...
http://kdka.com/national/Joe.Horn.burglars.2.761019.html

Anyways, advice on a pistol in .22lr that may be compatible with a suppressor... that would be good.

 

[Javelin]

HK

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I would think hk would be the absolute best source for a gun that can handle a can,but they are pricey and all that im certain of is the .45s having barrels made for cans.

Hk is a great platform to suppress. But the .45 is an awful round to suppress due to its large bore diameter.

The HK USP Tactical in 9mm is a great way to go and they really do not cost that much ($800).


My thoughts on this lawsuit thing is this: it depends on your state. If you have castle law (such as Texas) it really does not matter if you shot the intruder with a cannon you will not even be brought down town for questioning. In some states if you shoot an intruder with anything you will be locked up due to manslaughter charges that will most likely be imposed upon you (yes unfortunately some states such as CA, NY, etc it is that sad).

I am just suggesting we keep things in perspective.

 

[WoofersInc]

Anyways, advice on a pistol in .22lr that may be compatible with a suppressor... that would be good.

Alright back to the question There are several 22's that would fit the bill.
The Walther P-22 can easily be set up for a suppressor. The Sig Mosquito can be found with a threaded barrel. The Ruger 22 can either have the barrel threaded, or you can get an aftermarket upper such as the one from Tactical Solutions. Tactical Solutions also makes a threaded replacement barrel for the Browning Buckmark, Ruger 10-22 rifles and the Ruger Charger.
Most of the 22LR suppressors from the big manufacturers are pretty close to each other in performance. It will depend on if you want a suppressor that you can take apart for cleaning or a sealed unit. Most sealed units will have a very slight suppression advantage over take down units.

Best cost is currently the P-22 and either a Tac 65 or Gemtech Outback. I have seen the package for gun and suppressor for around $600 not including the tax stamp.

 

[30mag]

Sweet.

 

[waterhouse]

You can have most things threaded for a .22 can. As mentioned, Tactical Solutions makes barrels for the ruger and buckmarks. Keep in mind that the upper on the Ruger pistols is considered the firearm, so it would need to be transferred through a dealer. Here is one of their barrels on a Buckmark rifle:

The ones for the pistols look similar, but are shorter and are available in a variety of colors. They are also easy to install.

I had SRT thread my Buckmark pistol, they moved the sight back and did a great job on the threading. It came out cheaper than the Tac. Sols. barrel, but really I did it because the Tac. Sols. barrels are lightweight and I wanted to maintain some of the barrel weight on the pistol:


The can on both is a Tactical Innovations 65. It was relatively cheap and I've been really happy with it.

Guns like the Sig Mosquito and Walther p22 and one of the CZ 452s come pre threaded, but you may need an adapter.

 

[kmrcstintn]

me thinks the top 4 9mm semiautos that would have threaded barrels available for suppressors would be Glock, Beretta, Sig Sauer, and HK

 

[Mr_Rogers]

No topic on threaded barrels should go by without mentioning Tornado Technologies. These folks specialize in threading barrels and a simple job costs about $90 for superb work. Much cheaper than a new barrel. They can also carry out the Form 3 transfer for your silencer

If your barrel is not long enough for a thread to be cut directly Tornado Technology can make various adapters (I would expect at extra charge). This may be great if you want a special job done where threaded barrels are just not available. I am looking at getting an adapter put on a Beretta Couger because I like the idea of the rotating barrel rather than the "tip up" barrel with the extra weight attached.

 

[Retro]

First of all, the best caliber for sound suppression is .45 because the round is almost subsonic at 900 fps or so, and with subsonic .45 round, all you hear is the slide action and champaign bottle "pop", there is no sonic boom to worry about. There is a reason why SOCOM demanded a suppressible offensive handgun in .45 caliber that is accurate up to 100 yards.

Regular 9 mm cannot be fully suppressed because of the sonic boom, and if you use subsonic 9 mm, the ballistic is simple aweful because you have a small projectile going at less than 900 fps. Yes, Holywood shows a lot of suppressed beretta and glocks, but in reality, 9mm is not good for suppression.

The best platform for suppression is a fixed barrel setup like Walther ppk or makarov PM. The next best platform is HK SOCOM and HK USP tactical, which is designed to function flawlessly with SUBSONIC .45 rounds... If you use regular .45 loads, you will have stove-piping and failure to return to battery in a HK USP.

Also Jarvis will make a threaded bull barrel for 1911 series, which will take the Gemtech USP suppressor, and with subsonic .45 ammo, it also would function flawlessly. Subsonic ammo powder burns faster because of a larger primer hole, which allows a more powerful recoil thrust allowing the 1911 locking mechanism to disengage and eject and chamber next round. Slower burning regular ammo powder does not have such a strong recoil for reliable cycling.

- Retro

 

[H2O MAN]

I would love to have a can on my bed side G21 and I just may in the near
future. Until then, I guess the can on my bed side AR will have to suffice


I have a PSA sign posted prominently at every entrance to my home.

Welcome to my home: Evil doers will be shot dead with a suppressed fire arm.

 

[WoofersInc]

The next best platform is HK SOCOM and HK USP tactical, which is designed to function flawlessly with SUBSONIC .45 rounds... If you use regular .45 loads, you will have stove-piping and failure to return to battery in a HK USP.

Funny I use regular 45 in my HK Tactical all the time and it functions perfectly fine. Actually all 45 is subsonic out of a pistol. Good old Winchester White Box works great for playing at the range.

 

[Retro]

Yeah, Woof, you are right about all regular .45 rounds being subsonic... However, remington makes a "subsonic .45" FMJ ammo which has a larger primer hole for faster ignition of powder for more reliable cycling, but the actual speed is comparable to a regular .45 rd.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

Regular 9 mm cannot be fully suppressed because of the sonic boom, and if you use subsonic 9 mm, the ballistic is simple aweful because you have a small projectile going at less than 900 fps. Yes, Holywood shows a lot of suppressed beretta and glocks, but in reality, 9mm is not good for suppression.

This comment sells the 9mm short.
A 158grain 9mm bullet can be driven at 950 to 1000 fps which is still subsonic (Speed of sound under standard conditions is 1125 fps). The 230grain 45Auto bullet has difficulty reaching 900fps in a pistol length barrel. Energy of the 45Auto bullet is 412 foot pounds. The energy of the 9mm bullet is 350 foot pounds. The 45Auto wins but not by a margin that the recipient would classify as "awful" under SD conditions.

 

[hounddog]

I can only speak from what little experience I have from my two silencers. A 22 gemtech and 40 gemtech blackside.

The 22 is fun. Have shot it off of ruger 10/22, ruger charger, walther p22. My favorite gun with this silencer is a Savage mark II bull barrel. You can hear the firing pin hit, followed by the bullet hitting the target. With the semi auto's above, it is quiet, but the action cycling makes it no where near the bolt guns. I currently have a ruger 22/45 with a bull barrel at the shop getting threaded.

With my 40 can, It has recoil booster to make it function better with a pistol. I have used it a great deal on a Glock 22 with a threaded lone wolf barrel. Have had only one issue with it so far as reliability. After 300rds, glock got really crusty and had some failure to feed issues. Quick cleaning and ran fine. Also have used it with my mech tech carbine. With the carbine, you do get occasional supersonic flight with a "crack." Especially on cold morning range sessions. Will be trying it next on a Beretta storm carbine, once it gets threaded.

 

[xx7grant7x]

I was under the impression that a suppressor had to be secured in a locked storage container/room am i wrong in this fact?

 

[Hawaiian]

The items pictured below are legal to own in Oregon. HK USP9sd w/ AAC Evo 9 suppressor and a Sandshark auto knife. However I would not use either in a self defense situation. The suppresed gun and the out the front auto knife will be made to look like gang related killing weapons by the proscecutor. Never carry anything 'tacticool' for self defense. It will work against you in the eyes of the jury that does not think the same way you do.

 

[waterhouse]

I was under the impression that a suppressor had to be secured in a locked storage container/room am i wrong in this fact?

Sort of. NFA weapons must be in the control of the registered owner. If the registered owner isn't around, they must be kept away from non registered owners, typically locked up in a safe. If the owner is present, they can be kept in any drawer or even hanging on the wall to display them.

 

[Mike OTDP]

OK, back to the OP....

If you are looking for a pistol for home defense, I'd go with a Beretta 92. Your choice of can, mine has an AWC Abraxas. The Berettas will cycle reliably without fancy inertia devices.

I would not worry about legal entanglements...your rationale is that you are concerned for your hearing. This goes triple if you are shooting an AR...the noise will do permanent damage. You are under no legal obligation to inflict permanent disability on yourself while defending your home.

Now, if you want a .22 to suppress, just for fun...that is another matter. If you have a particular preference, go straight to that. You'll do it eventually, save money and get what you want. BTDT.

A lot of people will try to get you into a Walther P22 or a Sig Mosquito. I would buy neither. The quality just is not there. I'd be looking for a Walther PP or PPK/S in .22, or a Beretta 70 or 87. Get the barrel threaded. Or a Ciener upper with a threaded barrel.

 

[icebones]

if you want something quiet to target practice with get a 10/22 and order a threadded bbl.
i know the one i have. i put a fajen stock, trigger, simmons 3-9x40mm scope and a heavy bull bbl. Its about as sweet as they come. And after i got the tax stamp and all the paperwork for the suppressor and bought a brick of subsonic .22 from wally world.

it had me giggiling like a little school girl because it was so quiet. you could actually hear the bolt cyciling and closing. the actual bullet impact made more noise than firing.

 

[30mag]

Sounds fun...
I want to put a silencer on something I could use though. Not just a .22.

 

[moooose102]

i, for one, would love to have that set up for my home defense. but gustopo michigan wont let anyone have a supressor at all, unless of course you have mega$ and have a special license. for average joe, in his own home, you will simply have to blow your, and your loved ones ear drums out to defend yourself. isnt that nice?!? thank you state legislaters with your infinate wisdom.

 

[Calhoun321]

Steping back to the legal issues. I would remind folks that self defense isn't always a cut and dried issue in the court room - even in ones home. Unless you have witnesses that someone broke into your home, with a weapon, threatened to use it, and actually used it before you used yours; their will be variables that can cast you in a bad light. For example, someone breaks in and your state requires that you retreat (no castle doctrine), yet you used a weapon that is easily cast as offensive - - could spell trouble. After the low light shooting did the perp really have a gun/knife? What if they turned as your bullet left the barrel? If so, you have now shot someone in the back with a silenced weapon. Explain that to an anti-gun jury.

I like the idea of a silencer on a HD weapon, but I think I like the idea of a subsonic pistol round alone a little better due to legal issues. One conflict without hearing protection will not deafen everyone in the home unless the gun is next to their ear when fired.

I'm really not saying pro or con, just adding to things to consider.

 

[Javelin]

Regular 9 mm cannot be fully suppressed because of the sonic boom, and if you use subsonic 9 mm, the ballistic is simple aweful because you have a small projectile going at less than 900 fps. Yes, Holywood shows a lot of suppressed beretta and glocks, but in reality, 9mm is not good for suppression.

Totally do not agree with this statement.

I personally found the 9mm to be the absolutely best round to suppress as it gives the best size to suppression ratio in my humble opinion shooting with my Trident-9 suppressor (122db which is as quiet as your standard air rifle).

The 9mm will remain subsonic with bullets 145gr for most barrels at most elevations and temperature and 147gr with all barrels. And furthermore, a 9mm 147gr JPH at ~1020fps is nothing to snuff at and arguably has better material penetration than a standard 115gr bullet due to weight as the 115gr has a tendancy to fragment/break apart even on glass.

Again, I own many suppressors but I don't use them for HD (I have a G23 for that and should I need to shoot it in my living room I won't be hearing much for a few days). But to each their own.