Suppressed KSG for HD? Long Post

[BearGriz]

I wrote the following (long) post, but then decided to first post the cliffnotes version:

I'm basically asking the following: Is it viable to suppress a shotgun for HD, and what about using a KSG because of length?

...

Hello all. This is my first post, so be gentle.

I actually read (and agreed to) the forum rules. This is the first firearms-related forum I have joined, and I did so because of the tone here as well as the quality of advice that I have read here as I researched firearms questions over the past six months. So Kudos to all of you for making it great! Anyway, onto the topic at hand:

Would you think about a Kel-Tec KSG with a suppressor?

OK, so I know the following already:

• The KSG is vaporware!
• Who knows how reliable it will be?
• Who knows when it will actually arrive (at sub-MSRP prices and adequate quantities)?
• Many people wish it was auto-loading, or the tube switch flipped after the last round (or between rounds), or Kel-Tec didn't add the view ports to the tubes, etc.
• There are WAY too many threads about KSG capacity vs other guns (including comparing the ability to shoot one, load one). This is not meant to rehash that!

What intrigues me about this notion are the following (random) thoughts that I have had about HD weapons:

• Many seem to agree that revolvers and pump action weapons can be more reliable than semi-automatics.
• Both are very hard to silence, but it can be done (revolvers are basically impossible, but with 12 gauges it is possible: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-318242.html)
• The noise made when you chamber a round in a pump action shotgun might just do half the battle in a HD situation (and send the BG running).
• Firing ANY firearm indoors can cause problems (even deafness), and that probably can be true for your fellow family members (if they are close enough and/or if they are through an open door).
• One strength of the KSG is its length. It might be better suited for suppression (and then use in tight areas) than any other SG out there. Length is actually the main reason I thought of this gun for this purpose (the 12 gauge suppressors out there seem very long).
• I am confused over whether there are actually suppressors out there that you can simply buy (for a 12 ga. SG). My research shows that is is possible, but few have them, and they seem to be prototypes, so maybe that makes this a moot point?
• Notice that I call them "suppressors," and not "silencers." I am not anticipating that any can would make it noiseless, but I would like it toned down a bit for (potential) indoor use.

Anyway, thanks for reading. If I am misguided, please let me know. I assume that there would be some trade-offs, compromises, and issues to this setup, but it does interest me.

I just think it would be much more pleasant to fire a suppressed 12 gauge indoors than one that is not suppressed. Lately I've become fascinated with the idea of suppressors, and I think most of my future purchases will be with the possibility of suppression in mind.

Oh, and one more thing. What about sub-sonic loads? The above thread mentions them, and I found another thread on this (http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-23962.html). Are those common? It doesn't seem like they are.

 

[Desolo]

From what I understand its possible with REALLY short BARRELED shotguns.... to long and the back pressure will destroy the suppressor. Id imagine it wouldnt work with the KSG because of its barrel length, even though it itself is a short bull pup.

 

[oneounceload]

They sell barrel extensions that act like a moderator, except their length goes in the wrong direction for your needs - they're 36" and they go on a long barrel of 28 or so to work well

 

[Sam Cade]

Lots of suppressed shotguns out there. Very common in europe, though they tend to be on sporting guns and quite lengthy.


...and here is a dandy lil story about just the thing that the OP is looking for.

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/swatsep2000/

 

[Zoogster]

You can certainly get a suppressor for a 12 gauge.

The term "suppressor" has been adopted by many people to seem more professional as it more accurate describes the device, but the truth is the guy that invented the thing to begin with called it a "silencer" and the law regulating them calls it a "silencer". So "Silencer is certainly a proper term, in fact more correct than suppressor, and most silencers are not silent.
So either term is correct.


Some people are not fond of having an NFA item for self defense because of various reasons. From how it would look to people after the fact, to serious enhancements if the defender is found guilty of even a minor crime (which can happen even if totally justified, juries often find someone guilty of a 'compromise' minor crime if they feel bad for the shot person or their family all the time.) A 2 year compromise crime with a suspended sentence and probation can trigger a 30 year silencer used in a crime enhancement as a result of the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984.
If they find you guilty of assault for example, it can trigger a 30 year enhancement because a silencer was involved.




The size of the required suppressor is proportional to the amount of gas it needs to reduce the pressure of for a given level of performance. So an effective one is going to be either wide or long for a 12 gauge.


Subsonic ammo shouldn't be a problem. Many Magnum loads are already near 1200 FPS, so going down to 1100 FPS shouldn't be too hard. Many manufacturers already use a 24-30" test barrel for their stated velocities, so the actual velocity from an 18" gun is already a little lower. But the suppressor would then act as a slightly longer barrel, and bring the velocity up a bit more, so it may even out to closer to manufacturer stated velocities. (Shotguns don't lose that much velocity from over 18" barrel length changes, but it adds up when talking near a foot of length.)
You will need larger buckshot for the same performance when you reduce velocity, so whatever you think is adequate, go up a size when you drop the velocity.
If you cannot find subsonic loads it wouldn't be too hard to reload some shotshells to 1100 FPS.
But some of the "reduced recoil" loads out there are already reduced power/velocity, some go the payload route, some go the velocity route, and some a little of both.
Reduced Recoil loads that go the velocity route and have near normal payload would likely be the place to start looking. Considering velocity numbers given are for long test barrels at the factory, many of them are likely already below the speed of sound from an 18" shotgun barrel, and some would remain so with a suppressor.